<p>Quiltguru, I am afraid that the incidence of students claiming 1/32 URM ancestry is not as prevalent as one thinks. Colleges's interest in boosting their URM statistics is real and probably genuine, but it does not obscure the fact that the statistics show little progress in reaching numbers remotely close to our national demographics. In many cases, the gaps between the URM and non-URM are growing instead of decreasing.</p>
<p>How quickly we forget. Does the name Ward Churchill ring a bell?</p>
<p>If a top college gives admissions preference to someone claiming native american heritage, do you really think they care about the cultural contribution this person brings to campus? I submit their only concern is in reported diversity statistics and producing a visible slice of the pie chart. They want "diversity", they create "diversity." I don't think the college admissions office invented the category. Is it their responsibility to create standards and certifications and police every category? I think to some extent the colleges are victims of a system they did not create. </p>
<p>true, xiggi. This doesn't mean that colleges don't do it. They do. This year, I even saw my own employer University of Michigan do this. It's a great way to bring up the SAT mean score for "URMs".</p>
<p>Coreur, point taken and I apologize for my outburst. Just hit a bit of a nerve. On your reincarnation point, the movie Bull Durham had a nice scene of just what you're describing. Annie was telling Crash that she thinks she was reincarnated from somebody famous, and he asked her "how come nobody is the reincarnation of Joe Schmo?"</p>
<p>Why is claiming to be Native American on a college application somehow considered by many above posters differently than, say, being African-American, Mexican-American, etc? When one checks off African-American, it doesn't matter if you "look" African-American or if African-American heritage is a big part of your everyday life or if you are "registered." It only matters if you are more than a certain percentage black (I guess).</p>
<p>Furthermore, what is wrong with having blonde hair and blue eyes? Should that somehow disqualify you from preferential treatment in college admissions? If so, why?</p>
<p>Why should following the rules make someone immoral unless there is something wrong with the rules?</p>
<p>Colleges already have a separate way of students mentioning that they have overcome a lot to attend college (i.e. application essays). Racial and ethnic disctintions are obviously requested by colleges IN ADDITION TO this information. I am not in favor of this policy, and none of my children would qualify anyway, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone else using ALL AVAILABLE LEGAL methods to improve their chances at getting into the best college and obtaining the best scholarships.</p>
<p>I personally would much rather have socioeconomic-based affirmative action. And I would vote against AA as it is now implemented if I ever had the chance. But if being 1/32 of any particular race, nationality, or group legally qualifies one for advantages, then I might even consider it IRRESPONSIBLE for a student or parent to not take advantage of this, if it would have a significant negative impact on educational options. Those posters above who say that their children qualified for but did not list Native American status seem to feel self-righteous because they have not participated; I am never impressed with self-righteousness. One of my favorite quotes is as follows: "The louder he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."</p>
<p>Pafather....my post about being 1/32 Native American could have been applied to other things like African American or Mexican American. In my view, if you have an ancestor pretty far removed and you do not have an identity in a race/culture or haven't been raised in it, look like it, or any other affiliation but a distant relative, it seems like "using" this ancestor to some perceived "advantage". That's my take on it and not just limited to Native Americans. I don't see my take as self righteous (though none of this pertains to me personally as none of the above applies to us) but more about an honest representation of my identity, culture, race.
Susan</p>
<p>soozievt,</p>
<p>My comments were not directed toward you or toward anyone in particular. I was only trying to say that it is easy for someone to be critical of another student who feels he needs to take every legal advantage in college admissions.</p>
<p>I am in favor only of OBJECTIVE criteria in terms of affirmative action (I would prefer socioeconomic parameters, but if you are going to use race, I think it should be somehow mathematically objective definitions). I do not care whether someone FEELS they are a Native American. I also do not care whether someone FEELS discriminated against. I am actually more impressed by someone who is OBVIOUSLY discriminated against and doesn't dwell on it but rather does his/her best (e.g. I consider Booker T. Washington a man of much greater character than Jesse Jackson). In terms of college admissions or scholarships, I also do not care who FEELS poor. I think it is possible to come up with some reasonable (but imperfect) criteria for favoring whatever group of applicants you wish.</p>
<p>Yes, I know you wre not directing your post toward me. I was trying to say that my comments pertained to beyond Native Americans, picking up on your post. </p>
<p>For me, it is not so much about what you "feel" as about stretching the "identity" because of an ancestor that is not so direct. To me, when colleges seek to increase diversity on campus, it is one thing to have a Native American from a Native American cultural heritage and upbringing add to the mix and another who is Native American a few times removed in name only. One adds to the diversity of campus cultural life and one doesn't truly bring that to campus. I realize the Native American who is 1/32 or some such helps fulfill some diversity "stats" but otherwise, doesn't truly contribute to diversity of culture on campus. That is simply my personal view. I think someone playing the 1/32 card is gaming to some degree based on a perceived "advantage"....at least that was what a local family was sharing with me as their reason for putting it on the application and that was what I was responding to here because the OP was relating a very similar story.</p>
<p>I guess I would have to admire the schools that DO require some proof of being NA as doing the 'right' thing. I agree that ones cultural/ethnic background should be represented in your life and upbringing and participation in those mores in order to make a claim and to reap those benefits. The 'real' Native Americans continue to struggle for the recognition within this countries borders - and should certainly be the ones to benefit from this classification.</p>
<p>People can be several generations removed from their tribal roots - and still 'live' within their tribal mores - there is a pride within tribal heritage that remains today for many - but 'living' that pride is one thing - not just 'being'. Schools that require 'living' proof should be commended for their efforts - at least they appear to be holding some responsibility and real recognition for Native Americans.</p>
<p>My thinking on the breakdown of ethnic backgrounds on college applications is not just college based but federally based - as it is required reporting in other ways as well - like in the health field as well.</p>
<p>Being 1/8 Mexican-American, I don't feel as though I could have lived with myself had I checked that box, always wondering in the back of my mind if that was a tip factor in my acceptance. </p>
<p>I would also hope that colleges will recognize my 'diversity' by the fact that I've lived, taught and learned in two Central American countries in the past 2 summers -- not because I'm 1/8 Mex-Amer. I think the former is much more important.</p>
<p>Is anyone on these boards actually at least 1/2 Native American? I'd be interested in hearing such a person's opinions on this subject.</p>
<p>I did see a Native American applicant on these boards asking what his chances were. He did not indicate what % of N.A. he was. However, anyone could see from his ECs that he was truly a N.A. and very much involved with the culture. He also had very high STATS as well.</p>
<p>In The Gatekeepers, it chronicals an adcom/rep from Wesleyan who was recruiting a Native American and in that case, really represented the culture. That is more of what I think of as diversity. Surely someone from an Indian Reservation, as an example, brings diversity more than someone who can point to a small fraction in their ancestory but who has not had any identity or upbringing in that culture.</p>
<p>Thinking about this some more, I will clarify that my viewpoint has less to do with minority status and more to do with the OP's post with the sense of "gaming". I am just not into the gaming aspect in that example or the local person I know who was doing it for this purpose. It would be like having an application that said the kid was president of X club but never revealing that X club has two members and meets once/semester. It comes off as being more than it really is. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I can only speak as someone who grew up among a lot of Native Americans (no, they didn't consider my 1/64 heritage as sufficient, nor did I :) ) there really was much more of a strong "our culture" feeling amongs them, when compared to other minority groups. To answer pafther's question -- it DID matter to them that a person "look" NA, and had NA culture as part of everyday life, and -- in most cases -- was legally considered to be a member of their tribal affiliation. I can't really explain it exactly, but it was definitely there. At the time, I knew nothing about Islam or Hindu culture but in retrospect it seems quite similar, in that LIVING as Native American was as important -- maybe more important -- than simply BEING Native American.</p>
<p>For generations, African-Americans and, perhaps to a lesser extent, American Indians were discriminated against if they had one DROP of non-white blood. The system of assigning race based on fractional parts was something that good white Christian Americans came up, and they used it. </p>
<p>Since the prestige colleges still have affirmative action for wealthy white applicants coming from the "right" prep schools, playing the "right" sports, etc., it's not a problem to me if they decide to spread it around just a little bit. It's their money....</p>
<p>You know what's interesting is that when people make negative remarks about Mexicans in my presence and then I tell them my grandmother was 1/2 Mexican (AND lived in Mexico), all of a sudden they shut up and feel bad about what they said. Just because you don't look a certain way doesn't mean you aren't proud of your roots.</p>
<p>Interesting thread. </p>
<p>What would you do in my D's case? She is Mexican-American, her last name is very unusual and only found in a very isolated area of Northern New Mexico and Southern Colorado. (We live in a huge SW city and in the phone book there is only one other family with this Chicano name.) She is also part Jicarilla Apache, but she personally is not affiliated with the NM tribe. However, she has relatives active in Indian Affairs and the NA education council in NM, some are also faculty members at U of NM and there are a couple of mildly radical Chicano activists in there as well (grin). </p>
<p>She did check the Hispanic box on her apps (she is a National Hispanic Scholar after all), but did not check the Native American box. Why? Not because she's blue-eyed and fair-haired...she has long sleek black hair and greenish brown eyes. (I guess she got that part right according to some.) Not because she doesn't feel connected. She does. Many members of my husband's family have gone to prestigious schools and taken their skill and education back to their poor communities because that sense of connection is fostered in our family. The reason she did not check the box is because so many people think it is a scam. She would not be 'gaming' the system, but she is afraid of the criticism. And the idea of having to have 'papers' is somehow reminiscent of a dog show and a bit distasteful.</p>
<p>Also, regarding the blue-eyed/blonde-hair comments. Many, many Hispanics are blue-eyed, fair-haired and fair-skinned...and NOT because they married Anglos. This is especially true in SA, Mexico and in European countries. It is ignorant to think all Hispanics look a certain way and if they don't then they aren't really Hispanic. The next time you are in the doctor's office, go ahead and pick up that Latina or Hispanic Business or Hispanic Lifestyle magazine and see for yourself.</p>
<p>Mini...sometimes it is these exact same well to do white applicants who play the "right" sports, etc. etc. who are gaming the system and claiming they are Native Americans due to some 1/32 thing in their ancestral background. That's who I was actually referring to. I don't think that is the kind of "affirmative" action that colleges are striving for when seeking true Native Americans. These same "white" applicants are trying to "game"...that's who I was referring to. </p>
<p>Spreading it around to include those from diverse races or socio economic backgrounds was not really what was being discussed here. THAT WOULD BE diversity.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>OUr neighbor is 100% native american-( that is to say that both parents are affliated with and members of different tribes and most of all their known relatives are as well) about three different tribes I am not sure which one she is affliated with- Grand Ronde of Oregon I think.
Tribal status is very complex- there are tribes that are recognized by federal govt and tribes that are not.
You might consider your self a member of a tribe and yet not be officially enrolled.
Different tribes have different official requirements it is fascinating but must be very frustrating for people who can only enroll with one tribe, yet they are not of "pure" enough blood to do so.
<a href="http://www.airpi.org/pubs/enroll.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.airpi.org/pubs/enroll.html</a>
If you do associate yourself with Native culture- this is a great opportunity to become more involved.
[quote]
Many Indians would like to become enrolled with their tribes, but find the process excruciatingly difficult. Often it is difficult to obtain a copy of the tribal constitution and then to find a copy of the base roll. A significant amount of genealogical research is required even before an applicant can meet other criteria.</p>
<p>Although constitutions provide that tribal councils can pass ordinances to govern the enrollment process and establish enrollment committees to review applications, most have not. This leaves potential tribal members without a clear starting point or explicit procedures, and opens the door for real and apparent abuse of the process.</p>
<p>Tribal enrollment raises thorny issues in Indian communities, not the least of which is identity. Should federally-imposed blood quantum requirements be thrown out? If they are, how does one ensure that only "real" Indians are enrolled? If they aren't thrown out, how can Indians avoid fulfilling the federal government's original objective of defining themselves out of existence?</p>
<p>What about future generations of Indians? How can tribes ensure that Indian children being adopted outside of the Indian community are not lost? How can tribes address the issues of fractional heritage and the continuing trend toward intermarriage with non-Indians?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is time for Indians to take back the issue of tribal enrollment. As sovereign nations, tribes can and should determine their own citizenry without interference or approval by any federal or state government or agency. Ultimately, tribal enrollment policies will influence the future of tribal governments and the future of Indian nations. At the very least, Indians need to educate themselves about their own constitutions and unique set of circumstances. Becoming informed is the first step toward thoughtful community discussions and avoiding the failures of past policies.
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