What did I do wrong?

Applying to College Admission Stories
41

Well–you didn’t see my entire application (and frankly I’m not willing to put the entire thing up for public display here for privacy reasons), especially not the essays themselves, so whether they believed I had a novel or not is still open for debate. There’s no confirming or denying it either way short of communications records from the adcoms themselves. But either way yeah, writing a novel (along with shooting, which is much more like archery than the media spins it up to be) are inherently solitary, Ernest Hemingway kind of activities. In my interviews I believe I displayed a much more open and outgoing part of my character, but from what I’ve heard a good interview is taken more as a baseline than something that could tip the scales in your favor.

I’d also use my story as an example of how die-hard SATs, APs, and GPA performance aren’t absolutely necessary to get into an Ivy-tier school (although granted, this may change depending on your school; all of the people in my school this year who made Ivies took at least 6 or 7 AP classes). The valedictorian at my school last year also ended up at Berkeley, as did a student with a perfect ACT and major research experience. (Then again–both of them were also Asian).

All in all–go Bears. At the very least it saved 17k/year vs. Amherst; looking forward to making the most of my undergrad experience there.

42

That’s pretty brutal. But you are an amazing student, you were accepted into a top major at a top school, and you will have a successful life, no doubt! Bottom line on the rejections is probably that there are simply too many people applying, so that it becomes a random selection among the proven scholars like you. You know that better than I do (as a guy who is strong on math.)

I mean, maybe within this system, in which it does become a random selection/lottery, it might help tremendously to really hone in on why that particular school (even though there are 20 or whatever) is a perfect match for you - what about that school is suited to you as a student, and what you as a student might bring to the school. That’s the only other thing I can think of, besides the high number of applicants.

43

Lots of people get rejected by those schools. They are very selective and can’t take everyone. All 15… hard to imagine but not unfathomable. But don’t stress, you got into BERKELEY! Thousands of people out there would kill to get into that school. Berkeley doesn’t just accept losers. I thought I was going to read that you were now forced to go to East Podunk State or something of that nature, but no, you’re doing great!

44

Honestly? I think you fall between two stools. Your academic stuff is impressive, but mostly within the context of your high school: you’ve not got much by way of national academic credentials like USAMO or whatever. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very impressive, but there are tens of thousands of kids at your level every year.

On the other hand, your extracurriculars are not all that impressive, pretty standard stuff. I don’t get why you seem to think that just writing a novel is all that impressive. Sure, it does show a level of committment and dedication that’s good for a high schooler, but it’s not like you had it published by a real press (not self-published), which would be some mark of quality. You put a lot of stock in the fact that you’ve written a lot of words, but why should anyone care if the quality isn’t there?

45

Wrong major?

46

I’m surprised by the people saying that writing a novel isn’t a big deal. It is. Have those of you negating that accomplishment, done it? Of course, that doesn’t mean the novel is any good, although lots of really good novels get rejected by publishers all the time. But to have the discipline and fortitude to write a full length novel while being in school and engaging in ECs is an impressive achievement and you should be proud. As an aside, the publishing business is brutal. The chance of your manuscript ever getting published is very very small so if you do give that a try, get some thick skin before you submit.

47

But OP didn’t provide the colleges with any excerpts or anything from the novel, which would make them think it was badly written or nonexistent.

I know what target shooting is and have friends who do it, but you don’t want it on your applications. It scares the schools, and gives the opposite of the right image, not friendly, social, interesting, or creative.

OP might have gotten into somewhere “better” with better applications and better choice of schools to apply to. However, I guess male Asians from California need stronger ECs, money, connections, or something to get into a top 6 school.

48

I feel ya bro!

This year in my school district we had one of the best years in a long time in research competitions:: one Siemens semifinalist, one finalist, and 2 Intel STS semifinalists(all different people). Along with one or two USAMO qualifiers, we were pretty much destined on becoming one of this best admission result classes in the history of our school district( We’ve had a people attend HYPSM before, but we thought this year was gonna be the year!) This was our admission results(All white or Asian male):

Stanford
MIT
Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt
WashU
Vanderbilt

All of us had 35+ ACT, 2300+ SAT, 10+ 5’s on AP exams.

49

That’s the thing. Everybody “writes novels.” A girl from my HS has self-published two “novels” and one “novella” and she can barely string a sentence together.

50

I know several people, all Asian, that were admitted at 2+ HYPSM colleges, and the things that we had in common wasn’t just stellar grades with high SATs, but we also all had various national level awards. Some of the awards that I’m talking about are Siemens Finalist and Semifinalists, ISEF Finalist, MOP, USAMO, RSI, USAPhO/USAChO/USABO camp, NFL nationals (debate). These are the kinds of awards that make you stand out from other highly qualified applicants during the admission process.

Unfortunately, there is too much grade inflation now for a 4.0 UW GPA to even mean anything to colleges (think about how many times you have heard of a student getting an A in an AP class and then go on to get a 2 or 3 on the AP exam). Getting into top tier colleges is getting harder, and not having awards that extend outside of your local area hurts.

That’s not to say that you can’t get in without prestigious national level awards, but you definitely shouldn’t expect to get in. Even the people that were cross admitted at multiple HYPSM schools were not expecting to get in. Almost all of us experienced rejection during the application process, but I’d hardly count getting into EECS at Berkeley as having done something wrong.

51

@Firebolt1176 I don’t think your guidance counselor underestimated you. I think you are vastly overestimating how strong the non-stats part of your app was. I recently submitted a research paper for publication that is basically the culmination of 2 years work. I won some awards at a big competition with it, but if I hadn’t won anything and failed to get it published, I would scratch it right off the app. You got into Berkeley (EECS, even), and you’re complaining? The only two people I know who got Regents had major national awards.

52

All right then–lessons learned. If I could go back in time to August of this year, I’d definitely scratch the part about the shooting sports off all my essays. In fact, the advice I’d have to offer (as in Ron Unz’s article) is to keep the discussion of any activities that fall in that ideological camp to a minimum. (Again, I personally believe that holding this against me–assuming they did so at all, we can only extrapolate–is being extremely quick to judge and borderline bigoted, but that’s neither here nor there.) I’d have cut down on the schools I was applying to, and I’d focus my resources on a more limited number of schools: probably HYPSM, UPenn, Columbia, Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSD. I’d change the Common App essay to another topic entirely and focus my essays on writing about some anecdotes that caused me to grow as a human being, rather than anecdotes on my extracurriculars.

@chancethrow7815 @ZeeTee Yeah. I freely admit that one of my major weaknesses is my lack of USAMO/USAPho/USABO/insert other national award here recognition; in fact I stated that directly in my first post there. If I could go back to the beginning of my high school career I would work much harder to winning an award in computing or publishing research. I would have done much more on Speech and Debate to try and make national recognition. And finally, I would have gotten involved more on my school’s newspaper to validate my writing–which brings me to my next point.

From the responses I’ve gotten here, I understand that many are, and probably were, skeptical of the very existence (let alone the quality) of the work I have written. Since I didn’t get it published, I can understand that. In the real world, in the face-to-face interactions I’ve had with my teachers and interviewers, most believed that I wrote a novel. The conversations I had about the writing process, I believe, lent me reasonable credibility if not absolute proof. Now, I see that in the anonymous vacuum of an application file or an online forum, people aren’t quite as willing to believe. I have no proof but my and my recommenders’ word for it.

That said, I still have the knowledge–whether you choose to believe me or not–that I wrote a book. I have the memories of reading up on foreign relations to make my apocalypse scenario; I used my understanding of firearms to arm my characters with realistic gear; I used the full complement of media I consumed as inspiration for my protagonist’s journey. I regret that I wasn’t able to finish the work in time to have it published for college apps; I regret that evidently my essays on what I gained from this whole process–rather than the results–didn’t get me what I wanted in terms of acceptances. But, when all is said and done, the book is still something that’s grown with and reflected who I am over the years; it’s still me.

Ultimately, what I’ve seen is that half of this whole process is packaging yourself as a good candidate in the application, and the other half of this whole process is the person you built yourself up to be over 16-18 years (with certain caveats of course). After making this thread and thinking over this for a while, I know I could have done much better in both aspects. I only had one chance at both, though (rolling $75 dice for a lottery ticket on 12 transfer slots out of 3000 applicants apiece at an elite school doesn’t sound too appealing to me, wouldn’t land much financial aid either)

Overall I guess I had an ok run. Met some obstacles; made many mistakes, but I learned a lot and ended up ok. I hope someone else, through reading my story, can learn something too.

53

@Firebolt1176 wrote:

This is a lot of wisdom in this.

It takes time to build yourself as a person. Exceptional talents and abilities take a long time to develop. Students who cram a lot of ECS in beginning at the high school level seldom have enough time to really develop, and doing things in order to impress colleges is generally transparent. Adcoms generally love kids who have developed themselves over a long period of time, and out of true passion for the things they love to do.

Beyond that, “packaging” is key. Almost everyone I’ve seen on CC presents themselves poorly. Painting a picture of yourself that shows off your efforts and accomplishment clearly and cohesively is vitally important. Many applicants present themselves on CC as a jumbled mess of amorphous stats and activities, rather than framing themselves and presenting a clear picture. Editing is an under-appreciated skill.

I congratulate you on having a such clarity at a young age. Life doesn’t end with college applications, so hopefully you can apply these lessons in the future.

54

I think this is one of the best “lessons learned” threads that I have seen. Lots of good advice from lots of people. I agree with @sattut that there may have been something about the OP’s application that put off schools; even though he faced intense competition as an Asian STEM applicant, his background is strong enough that I would have expected him to get in to a few of his other top choices (not that Berkeley isn’t a great option).

Some lessons discussed above which stand out:

  1. Know your demographics. Applying as an Asian male STEM applicant from California is brutal. One of the toughest demographic groups. Even Kevin Lee (2400 SAT, 800 on something like 8 subject tests, valedictorian, 4.98 weighted GPA with an incredibly tough course load, multiple ISEF and STS awards, Davidson Fellow, California State high school student of the year, 3rd degree black belt in taekwando, and someone who overcame a childhood heart condition) was rejected by Stanford and only got in to Harvard off the wait list. Even without strict quotas, schools will generally be cautious about taking too many applicants with similar-appearing demographics and background, so applicants are essentially competing against a very elite sub-group as well as against the general applicant pool.
  2. Pick schools that fit your interests. Applying to several Ivy schools which aren't strong in your area of interest probably doesn't make sense. Schools want to know that you are interested in them for more than name value, which is the purpose of so many of the "Why X" supplemental essays.
  3. Don't spread yourself too thin. As @jym626 notes, 19 applications is a lot, and may stretch one's ability to write quality essays tailored to individual schools. The supplemental essays really need to be tailored and focused. Top schools want to keep their acceptance yields up, and showing strong interest helps.
  4. Figure out how to make yourself stand out from the crowd, and package yourself. Make sure that your identify comes through loud and clear.
55

@renaissancedad @Firebolt1176 Thank you so much for all your contributions to this thread so far - I definitely agree that the hindsight and the advice in the thread is extremely useful! I was just wondering though what exactly you guys meant by packaging yourself well? Does that mean highlighting important parts of your application over and over again, for example, by writing about a particular extra-curricular in the Common App and Supplementary essays as well? How exactly do you package yourself correctly without seeming 1-dimensional (some other people have recommended using each opportunity to tell the colleges about a completely different aspect of your personality)? Thanks xx

56

@sansculottes, what I would say is that as an applicant, it is important to show adcoms a picture of yourself as a person. Adcoms are reading your essays, looking at your recommmendations, class selections, grades, test scores and ECs, and trying to figure out who you are. A recent Stanford grad likened this to a partially covered painting, with adcoms trying to figure out what was actually represented underneath:

https://mix.office.com/watch/13gekrg9zecnz

A webpage from the UPenn admissions site on “What Does Penn Look For?” is also very revealing:

http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/apply/whatpennlooksfor/holistic

Adcoms are deluged with 10-20x more applications from qualified applicants than they can possibly admit. They will give preference to those who are able to help them “discover what separates you from those with the same, or similar, GPA and test scores”. Very few applicants do this well. Read the “chance me” or “accepted/rejected” threads, and the list of ECs, classes and scores just becomes one big blur. Applicants who can project their “authentic voice”, “tell a story”, and be clear about “what matters most” will stand out. Adcoms will generally favor applicants who are distinctive, and who are very personal about themselves, over those who are just a list of accomplishments. That’s why the essays and recommendations are so important - they go beyond a mere list of accomplishments.

A month ago veteran poster @Gibby wrote this to you in another thread:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1789566-presenting-yourself-as-less-asian-p1.html (post #6)

Whether it’s Stanford, Penn or Columbia, these all amount to the same basic thing: adcoms want to get a picture of applicants beyond a list of stats and accomplishments, and applicants who are more effetive at presenting a clear and compelling picture of themselves will be at a considerable advantage over equally qualified applicants who fail to do so.

So how do you do this? A few thoughts:

  1. Be selective about your ECs (and other information) and how you present them. A list of 20 amorphous ECs is hard to sort through, and lack of depth makes many relatively meaningless. Don't both to list minor ECs that aren't important to you, focus on those that are and where you put in a lot of time, made a difference, and achieved proficiency. Group related ECs together. If you want to study international relations then MUN, speech and debate, and student govenment all show a clear focus, and together they represent a considerable investment. Doing MUN, math club, the student newspaper and NHS doesn't show any clear focus.

Remember that everything you list conveys some information, not necessarily what you intend. If you took 15 APs it may look impressive, or adcoms may wonder why you spend so much time and effort taking more tests when you could have spent that time out in the world doing something else. That’s just one example.

  1. Show who you are in your essays. Let adcoms hear your "authentic voice", tell them your story, and show them what matters to you. Get personal. Don't write something trite, clever or cliche that isn't really revealing. Be consistent. It's fine to show a couple of different aspects in different essays, but don't spread yourself so thin that it dilutes who you really are. Focus on 1-2 key things. Show who YOU are, not what your EC is - there's a difference.
  2. Make sure your recommenders and GC know who you are as a person, not just as a student. If they are able to paint a picture of you as a person, it can be very helpful in reinforcing what you say. Don't just choose teachers in whose classes you did well, choose teachers who really know you, perhaps outside of the classroom as well as in it. Spend time with them if necessary to make sure they know any important circumstances or aspects about you. They will write an independent letter, but make sure that they are adequately informed and aware of who you really are.

Those are some initial thoughts. I’m sure others will think of more.

57

WOW thank you for all that advice!! I will definitely bear that in mind.

58

OP is probably in the top 100 in terms of AP exams and SAT IIs. He has a good shot at a top 5 graduate school.

He said he modeled the novel essay on someone else’s successful one. It sounds like his essay told nothing about himself, but simply attempted to copy a winning formula. He doesn’t provide the schools with any way to see any of his novel. Obviously, it made a bad impression.

59

@ sattut Again, I admit that not providing any way for them to see my novel was a mistake (thought that attaching a 100,000 word document would leave a bad impression). But where did I state that I “attempted to copy a winning formula?” All I “copied” from Kwasi Enin’s essay, if you can even call it that, was writing my Common App essay on an activity that wasn’t directly related to my major. That was the lesson I took to heart after I read his essay online; that’s a lesson that I believe that my failure doesn’t automatically discount. If that’s copying, then half of the Common App essays in existence are forgeries.

Yes, I made a serious error in being unaware of the impression that my overall application created; yes, my round with this game didn’t turn out so well. In the pile of rejections, a thousand reasons–race, gender, geography, lack of national awards, an adcom’s bad day, the alignment of the planets, and yes, the person I made myself out to be in the essays–could have been the culprits. There is no basis for stating that “obviously,” it was the novel essay, it was the shooting essay, that was the decisive factor; as you said, I made it into Amherst with those very things. So despite what your responses in this thread suggest, you are not the authoritative arbiter of the whole college admissions process that you believe you are.

60

I don’t understand why you couldn’t include some passage from the novel or a short story or had some story published somewhere. If the novel was well written, wouldn’t you want to show it off? That is how I would think if I was in admissions. IMO it makes a bad impression when you don’t show any creative writing or any evidence anything was published anywhere.

Also, I didn’t realize you wrote an essay on shooting. That is definitely a mistake. It goes beyond listing shooting as an activity.

I don’t mean to offend, but if you want to know where you went wrong, that is my opinion that both essays were major mistakes.

Even though you did get accepted at good schools, it seems ridiculous that you didn’t get into some Ivies or whatever with those stats. Harvard used to have a “golden hundred” who were accepted strictly on academics, before they did their “holistic” admission. It seems like you should be in the top 100 nationally, at least in terms of test scores.

I am definitely not an expert on admissions, and this whole things seems puzzling.