<p>“undergraduate education, is , well, for becoming educated.” So, you think that architects, engineers, nurses, etc. are not being educated ? </p>
<p>@thumper1 @lookingforward @abasket @MichiganGeorgia </p>
<p>no… I have just been busy. </p>
<p>@Poohbah29 if your child switched to architecture(often a 5yr program) their freshman year would you keep the same philosophy? what if they started school as an architecture major?</p>
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<p>No, that’s not what I said. But I do believe that the primary purpose of undergraduate education is intellectual training, not career preparation. If my child did not have a strong interest in a vocational subject, I would not force her to study one as a condition of funding her undergraduate education.</p>
<p>"Intellectual training " and “career preparation” are not mutually exclusive. Not everyone wants or needs to worry about career preparation as an undergraduate (particularly those with family resources), but I see nothing automatically superior in not pursuing something that will lead to a career /employment. Our funding at the undergraduate level was not contingent on our kids choice of major but they happened to pick majors that led to good employment opportunities. You seem to be implying that those who pursue career preparation are doing so at the expense of “intellectual training.” If so, I find that both condescending and insulting. </p>
<p>Newsie, are you a student? Are your parents concerned about you switching majors?</p>
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<p>Not at all. It depends on the major. I am sensitive to the constant anti-intellectual bashing of liberal arts education as a waste of money and time. The ideal of a liberal arts education is under assault, culturally, economically and politically. I’m not too worried about the hurt feelings of, say, engineering majors. Actually, the engineers I happen to know are broadly educated and culturally aware. Juvenile sneering at the liberal arts is the symptom of a second-rate mind.</p>
<p>But where is this “constant anti-intellectual bashing of liberal arts education” and “juvenile sneering at the liberal arts…” ? How rampant do you think that is? I would hope that people, for the most part, are just going about their own business and studying what they want to study. And not worrying about what other people think.</p>
<p>Legislators threatening to cut funding to non-STEM disciplines. Articles in HuffPo, USA Today, etc. about the most “useless” majors such as philosophy and modern languages. Skeptical unimaginative questions about “what are you going to do with that degree” (as if the title of your bachelor’s degree stamps your forehead as to what you’re good for). Contraction/closing of carefully curated university libraries because, after all, “everything’s online” (hint: a lot of it is garbage). Diversion of resources toward proliferation of poorly designed flavor-of-the-month “interdisciplinary programs” in market-driven concentrations looking in the rearview window (i.e. digital marketing in the late 90s, sports management, computer game design today).</p>
<p>I’ve said enough. I’m fighting a rearguard action that’s doomed to failure. Only a handful of elite colleges in 2030 will offer a liberal arts education. It will go back to being a luxury for the rich.</p>
<p>I think on CC it’s more the opposite, bashing the engineering majors over the liberal arts. I have one kid at each, my liberal arts/artsy kid wouldn’t dream of doing anything else. But my second is definitely not that type, if it anything to push her into study something else than a few majors would backfire on her.</p>
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<p>Engineering, business, etc. majors do have to take liberal arts general education requirements and some liberal arts prerequisites for their majors, so it is not like students in pre-professional majors are not getting any liberal arts education. The idea that engineering, business, etc. majors do not know anything about various liberal arts subjects seems to be the underpinning of the arguments against pre-professional majors (which are common on these forums), even though that premise is incorrect.</p>
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<p>If you mean majoring in liberal arts subjects, be aware that it is currently the case that most bachelor’s degrees are granted in pre-professional majors.</p>
<p>Apologies if this has been said as I haven’t read all the posts, but first of all, pre-med is not a major.</p>
<p>As many have said, students change their majors all the time. Both of mine did , and into a harder major. Both transferred into engineering (chem and mech) their sophomore years, but still graduated in 4 years, though one DS took a summer class at a local flagship tech school while simultaneously doing an internship. So, its doable, and doesn’t always require an extra semester or year. </p>
<p>It’s been a while since I’ve seen somebody bashing computer game design on CC! I wasn’t thrilled my son chose it as a major, but supported his dream. He and his friends have jobs with major companies - Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc and are doing very well with their “poorly designed flavor-of-the-month “interdisciplinary programs” in market-driven concentrations looking in the rearview window”. Their salaries are WAY above the average for new college grads.</p>
<p>I don’t get it either with someone bashing things like game design or sports management. Colleges have been evolving and adding relevant courses since the day one. </p>
<p>Okay- no response from the OP. But here’s what my gifted son did. He took courses in math and physics, deciding on math after a few semesters. He could have graduated in 3 years but the fourth year meant an Honors degree and better preparation for grad school. Got away with not declaring a major until he was supposed to graduate.Then did a fifth year to complete a second major in comp sci (dropped graduation a week or so before it would have occurred, sigh, and was able to stay as an undergrad) and got a job instead of grad school. Now intellectually satisfied with his work the past few years. Was instate at flagship so financially cheap and a top one in his fields.</p>
<p>He had overreached in his math grad school applications. In retrospect this may have been good as I know of someone with better undergrad/grad math schools who is job hunting as a PhD. He has some math grad credits from undergrad and did get to experience a lot of higher level math. But he seems to be enjoying developing software.</p>
<p>btw- there’s nothing a parent can (or attempt to) do about the chosen major and any changes. The student has to live the life and make the choices. One reason for colleges/U’s to admit students to their whole school and not a single major or subdivision of the institution. Most entering freshmen will change majors.</p>
<p>Thanks to all of you who answered. I noticed on CC that a lot of parents reference paying for 4 and only 4 years of college and I have come across threads that are about students who want to switch or are unsure about their major. So I asked this question out of curiosity</p>
<p>As a “child” who did switch their major (From Biological Sciences to going for Nursing), my mom didn’t do anything. I explained thoroughly to her WHY I was switching majors (Because job opportunities are dwindling for research and I honestly dreaded having to go into a research field) and that I was more excited for Nursing. She was fine with it and actually said “I can see you as a Nurse” as have many others (even more supportive of me being a pediatric nurse). However, she isn’t paying for my education. I stayed in state so grants and scholarships cover my tuition for now. I may have to go for an additional year because of this switch (a lot of pre-reqs for Nursing), but I’m not too upset about it. I think there’s a difference in your child switching because they don’t like the field and see themselves better elsewhere (which, I thank a research on here for pointing out Nursing as a field if I wanted to really help people and be in science) and just doing it because they don’t know what else to do. If you’re paying for college, you need to discuss this. It’s easy to say “Well, people switch majors all the time”, but if you’re in a field where classes don’t overlap with new major, you’ll be adding time to your undergrad, which is why most should listen to counselors and take gen eds first. </p>
<p>Switching majors is normal and may help the child discover their niche. Nothing wrong with it if they see themselves in a career in it for the long run.</p>
<p>@Confusedsoul94, my daughter called me in her second week of school and asked how I would feel if she switched from biology to nursing. She was in Canada where you choose youR faculty and more or less choose your major at the beginning. I asked her what she was thinking and she said, “I’m not that academic and I like working with people. If I stay in biology I will spend 4 years in a lab and I will be qualified to work in a lab when I graduate. It is still drop/add period and I will see if I can switch.”. I said go for it. But the school said that she had applied to the Faculty oh Science and would have to reapply as a first year student in the Faculty of nursing and that there was no guarantee she would get in. She put applications to a number of Canadian nursing schools. I arranged for her to shadow a nurse at a hospital in Boston over Christmas vacation. A CC parent actually arranged it. Afterwards she encouraged ShawD to apply to several Boston schools that her hospital hired from. Even though the deadline for transfer applications was passed, the first of the schools she contacted saw her grades at a good area private HS and her ACT scores and said if she could get her first semester grades in within 10 days, they would admit her with some merit aid for the next semester and into a 5 year BSN/MSN program to become a nurse practitioner. I helped her get her grades in and vetted by some outside agency since this was their policy for non-US transcripts. I said the only condition I had was that she not stop after the BSN and become an NP because my impression was that they got treated with a lot more respect by the health care system and by docs in particular. Also, she is very bright and would like the diagnostic aspect of being an NP. </p>
<p>So I happily encouraged the switch of major. I just wanted to make sure she was making an educated choice because nursing was a much more vocational choice than biology. </p>
<p>She loves it. She is in her final UG semester. Was inducted into her school’s phi beta kappa equivalent and the nursing honorary society, worked 4 + shifts a month at a hospital, had many clinical courses at hospitals, is a TA for a med/surg course. She is working much harder than she did in HS. </p>
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<p>@shawbridge I am very curious how the outside agency sees the Canadian transcript. Is an A still an American A and a B still an American B? I know that Canadian school very well, btw. </p>
<p>I posted this article earlier and I agree with the young lady’s decision.
<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203733504577026212798573518”>http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970203733504577026212798573518</a></p>
<p>I strongly agree with Laszlo Bock on creativity and analytical training; I just can not agree with him about the young woman’s decision to switch major, however.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/friedman-how-to-get-a-job-at-google-part-2.html?_r=0”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/friedman-how-to-get-a-job-at-google-part-2.html?_r=0</a></p>
<p>@Canuckguy, no idea what they would do. Canadian grading is harder than typical US university, more like the era before grade inflation. Part of the issue was that at least one her courses was full year and didn’t have a midyear grade. </p>