<p>um, has anybody seen any of this?:</p>
<p>It seems like grade deflation is still a big issue at Princeton- lots of angry responses in that second link</p>
<p>There is, clearly, some negative response bias in that second link. That said:</p>
<p>1) Obviously students don't like the grade deflation policy. It hurts their GPA, which has an effect, slight as it may be, on their prospects for jobs. Clearly they're going to oppose it. I'm pretty agnostic on the issue.</p>
<p>2) A lot of the anti-administration sentiment is from a few events this year: annexing part of Spelman into Whitman (so, what, now they have the best new buildings on campus and a section of the best independent housing in their college? I call bullsh**), the new RCA alcohol policies, and the perceived war on the eating clubs. I'm not a big fan of any of those things, but they're not exactly horrible earth-shaking issues either.</p>
<p>Overall, the take-away here is that this is a heavily negative selection of campus views.</p>
<p>Many students are upset by the administration's demonstrated unwillingness to consider student input when making major decisions.</p>
<p>sounds like high school</p>
<p>1of42, what do you think about the numbers (in the first link) getting worse as students get older? Do you have any junior/senior friends who can attest to this? Also, what about the other effects of grade deflation- does it make things significantly more competitive? The whole policy seems unnecessary, given none of the other top schools have changed theirs, and it just seems to be making students really unhappy.</p>
<p>I have friends who are juniors and seniors, and their attitudes are not surprising in light of the survey results. The main problem students have with the administration is how it approaches student life issues, and area in which students should presumably be given a voice. I have no complaints about academics, faculty contact, or any of the other characteristics which make Princeton such a great place. I don't really have a problem with grade deflation. The initial numbers we're seeing suggest that the policy has not hurt students in the job market. Princeton has done a good job getting the word out to popular employers like investment banks and consulting firms. It would be nice not to have to work as hard to get an A, but it hasn't negatively affected my experience here.</p>
<p>prospect2013: So far, I'll be honest, I think I've largely gotten the grades I've deserved in classes. I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with grade deflation comes from the fact that Princeton students by and large got ridiculously uniformly high marks in high school, and expect that (maybe subconsciously) to continue.</p>
<p>Look I don't love grade deflation - I mean, really, why wouldn't I like having better grades, even if it didn't move me relative to other students? But I don't hate it either - it's not unfair or anything. I think there's just a tad bit of entitlement mentality in the anti-grade deflation movement.</p>
<p>What I think about the numbers getting worse is that as time goes on, the sheen of Princeton begins to wear off a bit (as it does with anything - new house, cool new video game, new car, whatever), and the faults become more apparent. I really don't think it's a surprising thing. Moreover, I think that since grade deflation would have been most recent with seniors, and still very recent for juniors and so forth, they would be more likely to be unhappy with it, whereas those of us applying now (and in the future) take it as more of a given.</p>
<p>Grade deflation is a good thing. I wish H has it. Now H gets some of the losers
who afraid of grade deflation.</p>
<p>The Daily Princetonian had an article about this today and last Friday:</p>
<p>Putting</a> Humpty Dumpty back together again - The Daily Princetonian</p>
<p>The</a> incredible vanishing approval rating - The Daily Princetonian</p>
<p>seems like there are some significant issues here. As for the "sheen wearing off", couldn't that also be interepreted as students just being better informed about the place? Juniors and seniors have been there for longer, and should have more substantial views (much fewer of them have no opinion than freshmen). The trends seem fairly dramatic.</p>
<p>Another current issue is shortening the time sophs-seniors have to move in to campus which affects the pre-rade tradition:</p>
<p>1 of 42: If your S was a rising junior who drew the lowest room draw number for Spelman next year as an independent and now has no kitchen in which to make his meals, no meal plan, and no eating club (and therefore will basically be living off the overpriced Wa food), you might think it was close to earth shatering as I do. To have independent be a choice while parents and siblings are sacrificing necessities to pay for the Princeton experience and then take away independent living space at the last minute so that others who are on a meal plan can get preferential housing is quite annoying.</p>
<p>sewbusy: I'm sorry about your S's situation. As I said in my post I think it should've been much better handled by the administration, and I really don't think any of Spelman should've been annexed. As I made clear in my post, I think it's the worst of all the issues that were brought up. Maybe it even is earth shattering. I'm not sure that's true, but your opinion may differ.</p>
<p>Grade deflation really is a bad thing, especially when you get to more difficult upper-level classes during junior and senior year- it makes things unnecessarily competitive and adds pressure to an already tough academic environment. The policy makes sense when other Ivies/top schools follow suit, but not when one school goes unilateral with it. Yes, they have publicized the policy to top firms/grad schools, but only a certain percentage of students are going to get these coveted jobs/acceptances. Other firms and schools out there don't quite understand how much lower Princeton GPA's are, and some have minimum GPA cutoffs. Grade deflation will sometimes push you below these cutoffs when that would not have otherwise occurred under a normal grading policy.</p>
<p>Yes, there is some negative bias in the free response section, but lot of things people said there are spot on. Princeton's a wonderful school, but not all the changes they're making and current policies they have are good ones.</p>
<p>That alcohol policy sounds like Fascism.</p>
<p>Yeah, deans who are paranoid about having an alcohol-related death on campus tend to go overboard with revising the rules.</p>
<p>Grade deflation is scaring me. I started to think it was okay, but after reading some of the remarks in the referendum thingy, I'm a little worried that I will have to choose between academic risk-taking and exploration and maintaining a good enough GPA for law school. I want to take all sorts of interesting classes in areas I am interested in but not necessarily good at, and i wouldn't normally care much about grades, BUT I want to keep my options open for law school. Is this going to be difficult? And since none of the other schools are following suit with the grade deflation, do you guys think there's a chance the administration will / could be persuaded to scrap the policy? The students who have written about the grade-deflation and alcohol policies are making alot of sense!</p>
<p>I didn't find that grade deflation affected the junior and senior level classes (other than the mol core classes). Rather, the departments give out fewer As in the 100 and 200 level classes and more in the 300 and 400 level ones. While grade deflation sucks, its really not so bad. I know people going to great law and medical schools, and tons of people with top finance jobs. It;s obviously annoying, but its not the end of the world.</p>
<p>People are still getting jobs and going to top grad. schools, since they're going to apply for these anyways, but it's still debatable as to whether the overall quality of jobs/schools where Princeton students have been accepted has shifted (I heard someone did a study for his thesis showing that it has declined). The numbers the administration hands out do not give the breakdown of where people are going and how that's possibly changed. For example, they have little data on law school acceptances since there is no centralized tracking of applications like there is with medical school.</p>
<p>Intro classes tend to hand out fewer A's, but they also have more people taking them pass/D/fail, and a wider pool of students, so they're not necessarily that tough. While upper level classes "have more A's" than intro level ones, they're more competitive since people are generally majoring in the subject matter. Since the grade distribution has been shifted downward, even in upper level classes (despite the existence of "more A's" versus intro classes), things have become more competitive.</p>
<p>In short, the waters are still murky on this matter. Of course people are going to have friends who got into law school X or landed a job at ibank Y, but in the absence of more rigorous analysis of how the new grading policy has affected post-graduation prospects, the uncertainty it creates is disconcerting.</p>
<p>What exactly is the alcohol policy at Pton?</p>
<p>This Prince article details the initial policy changes that upset students last fall:</p>
<p>University</a> tightens alcohol enforcement policy - The Daily Princetonian</p>
<p>After quite the uproar, the RCA guidelines were recently updated (see attachment at bottom of page):</p>