Hello! I am looking to apply to Cambridge University as a Mathematics major, particularly with concentration in Statistical, applied mathematics, with computer science as well.
Here are my scores, since that is a somewhat good way to gauge my chances:
SAT: 2310: Math: 800; Writing: 780; CR: 730
AP: I only took chem and euro last year; 2 and 4 (i honestly did not like chemistry therefore did not try)
this year expected scores:
Biology: 5
Calc AB: 5
English Language: not very confident 5, maybe 4
Statistics: 5
US History: 4, maybe 5 if i study well enough; history is never good for me though.
SAT II: taking Math II and Biology this may; aiming for high 700, hopefully 800 for math.
I’m planning for next year on taking AP Physics C, AP Computer science (at another school since its not offered at mine; or at a community college), AP Calc BC, AP Gov (not relevant), AP English Lit, Journalism (newspaper editor in chief)
I also have a question: do i have to take STEP right now? I read on the STEP website that i’d only need to take it if the college wants to give me a conditional offer, or if they request that I do. should I take it? Its offered in my location, since SoCal is the best. (haha)
I applied for a marketing/data/something like that internship with the SD SuperComputer center, but since i’m an unqualified high schooler, i dont expect to get a lot of actual math in.
I’m planning on building a website this summer as well. Also getting an evening job (if all goes well) with Summa Education.
How can I really show Cambridge that i love math? I havent competed (I didn’t even know there were competitions in my region…okay that’s a lie. I just only discovered my love for math this past year, so that’s why i took bio instead of physics this year. big mistake honestly. biology is not my thing; just not the same as math :’( )
Thank you!
Also, I know Cambridge wants 5 5’s in APs relevant to my course, but there isn’t exactly 5…
AP Calc, Stats, Calc BC, SAT II Math II, oh. there are 5. AP Physics. oh. and cs.
claritala pls why you gotta be so sleepy at 11
guess I’ll have to aim for a conditional offer.
" I am looking to apply to Cambridge University as a Mathematics major, particularly with concentration in Statistical, applied mathematics, with computer science as well"
Guessing you haven’t read the Math course description for Cambridge yet, so you might start here:
http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/course/
You will find links to the classes / class options for each year of the degree. To quote from the website:
“In the first year (only), there are two options: Pure and Applied Mathematics; and Mathematics with Physics. In the second year and, especially, the third year there is a wide choice of lecture courses, but no opportunity to substitute courses from other Faculties.”
In other words, it is 3 years of math classes straight up- no CS, no other subjects.
If you want, though, there is Computer Science with Math, which is CS + some extra math in first year and some mathy-er options in final year:
http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/computer-science
They are less into choice and more into making sure you know certain things with a degree. In the US, you could go to a Congregationalist, Quaker, or Catholic church. If you stayed in England, you could be high church or low church.
Math at Cambridge is either math with some physics or math with a lot of physics. I was told by someone who studied it that this was there emphasis since Newton.
You might look at the Oxford math programs. Actually, they call it maths there. You can study math, math and statistics, or math and computer science. The combined programs are basically half or each. Seems sort of a waste to study computer science at Oxford, but those programs might be more suited to you.
At either school, you have to take a significant amount of theoretical mathematics, such as real analysis and modern algebra.
…note that the Math + courses (Mathematics, Mathematics and Statistics, Mathematics and Philosophy, Mathematics and Computer Science) are only at Oxford. At Cambridge the only option (and only in year 1) is Pure and Applied Mathematics or Mathematics with Physics.
Not sure why it would be a waste to study comp sci at Oxford- it is ranked 3rd in the world, and 1st in Europe- not shabby! plus, they are a very nice lot.
If you are interested, I wrote a description of my d’s application process to Cam, which you can find if you scroll down my posts. She applied from France but is American. She loves it there.
Here is my description of the admissions process:
Most important, you must know what you want to study, i.e. your major - the 3-year course combines curriculum from undergraduate and graduate levels. That means you should demonstrate, through focused experience and effort, that you have been pursuing your interests. Some disciplines are easier to get into than others, e.g. Classics v. medicine. After that, there are many hurdles and requirements.
First, to apply, you have to meet strict grade requirements. If you are a foreign applicant, from a different system, this adds a bit of flexibility, but not much.
Second, if they are interested in you, they may ask for additional personal essays that require research and an expression of the applicant’s own thoughts. Parents are instructed to let it be a pure product of the applicant, with no writing help. I was very impressed with this, as it was a growth experience for my daughter.
Third, they can invite you for an interview on campus. Beyond probing what you know until they stump you, this is to check if you have the “right attitude”, that you “shine” yet know your limits. It was an exercise in humility for my D.
Fourth, they can ask you to take tests in your topic, though this was not required of my daughter.
Fifth, if they make you an offer, it is conditional. They set precise overall grade requirements (or class ranking) - my daughter had to get very high grades on her BAC exams (in her French high school), in some cases for specific disciplines; my daughter had to get A+ in honors math.
For this final hurdle, we formulated a strategy. We looked at her strengths and got a tutor to prepare for her BAC exams (they demand a specific style of answer, which was what we prepared for - not content, but style), in a sense knowing what she could ace and how it was weighted to affect the overall score. We avoided emphasis on subjectively graded subjects, such as philosophy, and concentrated on those over which we had more “control”.
Directly comparing statistics between US and UK admissions processes is misleading. First, with the common UK application, you can only apply to 5 schools. Second, you cannot apply to both Cambridge and Oxford. Third, the grade requirements are rigid, eliminating many qualified applicants from the statistical pool. Fourth, there is no “legacy” advantage, though if you go to the right public (read “private”) school in Britain, you are conditioned for the culture. Finally, my D applied as a European, though she could have done as an American. Americans may have additional requirements, such as submission of SATs.
I should note that applicants have to choose a college within Oxbridge to apply to directly. If that one lacks places in the chosen discipline but thinks the applicant is qualified, they are put into a “pool” with other colleges, which can choose to repeat certain steps in the application process. My D was “pooled” from St. Catherine and offered a place elsewhere. Also, extra-curricular activities are not very important; that being said, my D is an accomplished singer, which we believe helped as she was asked to audition in person for the chorus while still on conditional acceptance.
As one can imagine, it was a long and stressful process right up to July, when her BAC results were posted at school. We were focused on the process for the last 2 years, though from age 12, my D had expressed interest in going to Oxford and had read a book about how to get into Oxbridge. (As it turned out, she visited Oxford at 17 and didn’t like as much as Cambridge.) While my D was motivated to pursue her field on her own, we also nurtured her interests and offered her opportunities for work experiences in it, which she loved.
As for as math at Cambridge, it has a tradition with Newton and so on; and there used to be a total of 36 hour exam where they would rank graduating math students on their scores. However, it is “Pure and Applied Mathematics”. Pure means a lot of it is theoretical mathematics, so I wouldn’t go there unless you are comfortable with that.
As for OP’s chances, it depends on AP and SAT II scores. He really doesn’t have the credentials yet.
Actually, I looked over the websites again. Cambridge is pretty vague about the exact classes, but it looks like you could study mostly applied math there. Oxford seems to require more theoretical math, but you can do the math/statistics and math/cs combined degrees. Cambridge might be harder to get into in math, because it is considered better in math. You would pretty much be limited to pure and applied math and physics, but Cambridge in math seems pretty cool.
There are some math programs (American spellings) in the UK and Ireland that are more applied. For example London School of Economics seems to offer math oriented towards finance and University College Dublin seems to have a lot of options be very applied math oriented.
Would it be better for me to apply to oxford since i want to do Maths + statistics? thank you for your advice!
Do you know what the grade requirements are? I’m worried that I might not meet them. Do you know any information about when I should (or if I should) take STEP? Thank you for your advice!
Claritala, we are all trying to be helpful, but you really need to do the basics. Google “Oxford Math Statistics” and this page comes up:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/mathematics-and-statistics.
Click on the heading that says ‘requirements’ and you get this:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/mathematics-and-statistics
Part way down the page are links to international qualifications listed, here:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students/international-qualifications
which includes American qualifications, as well as info on the required test (which is the MAT, not STEP for Oxford).
Sorry, the tabs have the same URL, so if you use the above link it will only take you to the main page…
From what I can see, the Oxford Math/Stat program is pretty fixed and half and half. That statistics is more at the end, and the assumption seems to be your career will be in statistics.
The Cambridge Mathematics program seems to offer a lot of choice by UK standards, but is oriented towards math applied to physics and engineering. You would be able to take some statistics and operations research at Cambridge, but it would be from a mathematical point of view.
They presumably want to see 5s in BC Calculus, Statistics, Physics, and Computer Science; and close to 800 on math and physics SAT IIS and math SAT I. In any field you are at a disadvantage with the more general US high school curriculum, but it may be more so in math, as British applicants will generally have A*s in maths and further maths: further maths in more advanced than any US AP exams.
sattut, I know that you are trying to help, and I can see that you do some online research, but I think that your advice (especially “They presumably want to see 5s in BC Calculus, Statistics, Physics, and Computer Science; and close to 800 on math and physics SAT IIS and math SAT I. In any field you are at a disadvantage with the more general US high school curriculum, but it may be more so in math, as British applicants will generally have A*s in maths and further maths: further maths in more advanced than any US AP exams”) is inaccurate.
In particular, for Oxford, you are quite mistaken in what is required. They only require an A* in maths- further maths is not required- so a 5 in Calc BC will do just fine. Good 700’s on SATIIs will be just fine- the OP doesn’t need to panic about getting an 800 (though many US applicants will have a number of those), because what will matter much, much more than whether the OP has a 740 or a 780 on an SATII is their score on the MAT: that is where the Math department makes their interview cuts.
I know an American who is a current math student at Oxford who applied with a solid SAT and 3 SATII scores (not 800s, but solid 700s)- no APs at all. But, he nailed the MAT and had done a couple of math competitions with good results (though not overall wins), and shone at interview.
The tests are mostly a gateway: they are a way of making sure that the candidate has sufficient background in the material, enough self-discipline in work habits / ability to handle intense testing situations, and understanding of the subject that they are a viable candidate: that is, if admitted they could handle the work. The interview then sorts out who has a love and aptitude for the subject and who will do well in the tutorial format and the intense academic environment of Oxford.
That’s part of why I was pushing the OP a little bit: if you are really passionate about something, you research it, you find ways to be involved with it. If the OP has discovered a real passion / aptitude for maths/stats now, s/he will be looking for ways to do more of it, outside the classroom. That part of Oxbridge is hard to overstate: most of the Oxbridge students that I know are really motivated by their subject (even the too-cool ones who try to keep that side of themselves under wraps). The tutors are clear: “we want students who love our subject as much as we do”. Lots of extra test scores won’t make up for that.
I’ve decided that oxford would be better for my course choice. So I’ll do mathematics and statistics! I’ll have to take the MAT now but it looks easier than STEP. I just took the math 2 subject test. Hopefully I got close to or an 800. Do they care about GPA at alL? Do I even have a chance at getting in? What about financial aid? Can I get aid outside of government from people here in the US from organizations that offer that? (do those even exist?)
There is effectively no financial aid for international students (there are small bursaries, but nothing that is going to make a dent in the costs). You can use FSA though. You can get money from anybody who will give it to you, but to get your student visa for the UK you will have to demonstrate that you have enough funding to cover your expenses for the year before you come. If finances are likely to be a problem talk with your family asap. There is good costing info on the website. Good luck!
Yes, good luck. Oxbridge are amazingly unique institutions, truly they live up to their reputations.
Just getting a good score in school is not good enough for Oxbridge. You must show your passion. The professors are able to tell the difference during an interview. If you have a passion in Math, you probably have done the following before you apply
Show interest in reading a lot of Math books written by famous Mathematicians about their journey to Math
Self study on different Math topics during spare time
Enjoy Math competition and won some contexts
Start a Math Club in your school if there isn"t one
Organised Math contests for school because you want other students to appreciate the beauty of Math
Explore the history of Math because you want to know how people discover Math
Doing research on Math topics because you want to contribute something to the future of Math
I know someone who did the above and got an offer from Cambridge