<p>Wow, this guy has been spreading misinformation for some time, it looks like. Almost makes me want to go over to the HMC board and become the "fact police"--whatever they might teach about the importance of not fabricating data at Mudd, he apparently didn't learn it.</p>
<p>RocketDA, you say "smart jerk". Which part are you objecting to, the "smart" or the "jerk"? You haven't been strikingly friendly in this thread, and you seem very much to resent the Nobel laureates. I'm just saying...</p>
<p>Let.... this.... thread.... DIE already!</p>
<p>But death is depressing, by definition. Perhaps you should use a phrase like "cease to exist." Form is more important than substance.</p>
<p>You guys are right... Whle I still have a significant number of opinions, I'm tired of this arguing and debating. I agree, I don't think Mudd should have been mentioned in the first place. I don't think rocketDA intended to inflame Techers, but I can see how his posts might have done so. At any rate, it's been an interesting experience talking with you Techers, but I think CzarDerivative and Perplexitudinous are right, and this Caltech vs. Mudd fiasco has gone on too long and brought the thread away from its main point.</p>
<p>This is my last post on the topic.</p>
<p>First, I think cghen was remarkably laid back and calm in responding to the absurd lies about the Caltech experience posted on the HMC board and quoted above. </p>
<p>(Just to take the easiest case: contrary to rocketDA's claim, in computing the 3:1 student:faculty ratio at Caltech, the only people who count as faculty are people with the title of "Assistant Professor", "Associate Professor", or "Professor." Every single professor at Caltech -- except for about 10 division heads and high-level administrators -- teaches courses virtually every year. I can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to lie about something that's so easy to verify by looking at the Registrar's site. If you include research faculty, like Staff Scientists and Postdocs, Caltech's student:Ph.D. holding scientist ratio becomes 1:1. Eat that. I won't even get into how there is not a single lab on campus off limits to undergrads and how nobody I know has ever met an undergrad who wanted to research but couldn't.)</p>
<p>If cghen's calm (and in my view understated) corrections of this nonsense count as hurtful, you should see what I would have done to you.</p>
<p>From the image you guys project on this forum, one might surmise that all you do at Harvey Mudd is talk in hushed tones about the (false and silly) rumors you heard about Caltech. Chill out. As you could see from our resident alum's reaction to this nonsense (see Not quite old's post above at #45), Techers like Harvey Mudd just fine and don't have any bone to pick with you. It's only when you start insulting our fine school and telling lies about it that we are obliged to put you in your place. </p>
<p>Calm down and realize that insulting Caltech's world-class successes is not necessary for you to consider yourself a good college. In fact, just the opposite is true. The more you snipe and whine about how Caltech's Nobels are "a crock of shiz", to use rocketDA's choice phrase, the clearer it becomes that you consider yourselves to be on a rung below us and are trying to compensate.</p>
<p>Think less about pulling us down, and more about pulling yourselves up. Maybe if you work quite hard, you can come to a point where you don't have to denigrate Caltech's world-class accomplishments, because you'll have some of your own to show.</p>
<p>Let this thread die! Bye bye.</p>
<p>I agree, but for what it's worth, I'd like to add that I never intended to insult or put down Caltech and its achievements. I respect Caltech very much and have friends who go there. If I unintentionally projected an image of a Caltech hater, I assure you nothing is further from the truth, and I apologize.</p>
<p>"As you could see from our resident alum's reaction to this nonsense (see Not quite old's post above at #45), Techers like Harvey Mudd just fine and don't have any bone to pick with you."</p>
<p>As a less-recent-but-still-pretty-recent alum, I'll say that any "bone" I have with Harvey Mudd comes exclusively from the conduct of their posters on the College Confidential forum (well, the laudatory semi-facts on their Wikipedia entry didn't help my impression either). Any way you slice it, it just isn't very impressive--particularly to a scientist or engineer--to "bend the truth" to brag.</p>
<p>While I was actually at Caltech I don't think I ever thought of Harvey Mudd at all either way. It was just a non-factor in any part of my life, so why would I? But Ben is right--from what I've read here, Caltech must be a pretty common topic of conversation over there. And that's kind of sad.</p>
<p>
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There is a long-standing rivalry between Harvey Mudd and the nearby Caltech; this rivalry is basically unacknowledged by Caltech.
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Quote:
There is a long-standing rivalry between Harvey Mudd and the nearby Caltech; this rivalry is basically unacknowledged by Caltech.</p>
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<p>Dear lord... after reading the HMC entry on wikipedia I was about to throw an npov on there. I especially like "pranks at Harvey Mudd are known for being clever, amusing, technically precise, and reversible (by policy, pranksters must leave contact information, and reverse the prank within 24 hours if told to do so)."</p>
<p>Only a little bias right there. What is even worse is that the list of pranks is not that impressive as compared to pranks pulled at colleges throughout the nation. But it gets even worse:
"in one prank, students from Mudd stole a memorial cannon from Fleming House at Caltech (originally from the National Guard) by dressing as maintenance people and carting it off on a flatbed truck for "cleaning." Although Mudd students thought it a coup, most Caltech students were happy to see the cannon gone, as Fleming House is considered unpopular and obnoxious by most of the campus. Fleming students got it back by having their school President threaten legal action."</p>
<p>Not only is the author's (I'm assuming the author of this to be HMC-affiliated) writing a little bit, um, paltry (what kind verb phrase is "having their school President...." not to mention 'President' shouldn't be capitalized), but in addition it seems that Fleming students/Caltech had to take substantive action to reverse a prank that should be reversed automatically "within 24 hours if told to do so."</p>
<p>WOW!</p>
<p>That's just a problem with the nature of Wikipedia, not hypocrisy by one author. You can trace the writing through the "history" tab at the top of the page. The sentence about Fleming being obnoxious, for instance, was added by GaeusOctavius, and its objectivity has been (rightfully) questioned. Gaeus appears to be a Caltech student, whereas the other material is most likely from HM students. (He also added a snide comment about Caltech students considering putting up a similar sign prank for Harvey Mudd and then deciding they had better things to do, but this was removed because there apparently isn't such a sign.)</p>
<p>The boasts about stealing the cannon and the section on prank ethics were probably also by different people, although you'd have to check..</p>
<p>yeah, yeah, yeah, I edit wikipedia plenty. I just don't want to get into an editting war with everyone from HMC on their entry.</p>
<p>Yeah, HMC is probably not really to blame for the generally poor prose style of the Wikipedia article. I edit some big Wikipedia articles and it takes a lot of work to maintain them in an acceptable state -- people who care about some particular point of content will freely butcher sentences and not bother to smooth over their modifications so they sound like English. Subsequently, until the section is fixed, it reads like instructions on Chinese electronics.</p>
<p>"Every single professor at Caltech -- except for about 10 division heads and high-level administrators -- teaches courses virtually every year."</p>
<p>Just to add to what Ben said, some of those people still teach every year too. I know Richard Murray, who was chairman of E&AS (Caltech's largest division, no less!) still found time to teach CDS110 every year, not to mention spend countless hours advising the DARPA Grand Challenge team.</p>
<p>Yup, plus John Hall continues to teach ME 35 (sophomore level mechanical engineering course) even though he was named the new undergrad dean last year.</p>
<p>I had Chris Brennen for ME 35. It was pretty awesome.</p>
<p>Who coincidentally was also the undergrad dean for awhile many years ago.</p>
<p>I know. And the MOSH before that. A very dedicated and caring man. He was also nice enough to spend two years advising my team of students flying a project on the NASA KC-135. We had so much fun doing it that he dreamed up a project for his own lab group that required microgravity, so that he could go the next year! ;-)</p>
<p>When he taught ME35, though, it was the first regular lecture class he'd taught after several years as VP for Student Affairs. He seemed to enjoy it.</p>