What do you dislike about MIT?

<p>Ugh. I mean... the only (oh apologies... I meant MAIN) reason why I objected to the digression is because the arguments here are beating around the bush.</p>

<p>I mean... personally I do not like Sakky's views at all, but that's mainly because I object to realism. I do accept that his/her views are true to some extent.</p>

<p>What particularly ticks me off is that soozievt mentioned that the reason her kids go to school is to obtain an education and is in no way (oh apologies... I meant NOT PRIMARILY) affiliated with economic ends, but Sakky basically implies that soozievt is WRONG. Just watch:</p>

<p>
[quote]

You don't just go to college just for the sake of going to college. You go to college because you want to graduate and get a degree.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See that accusatory "you" there? I mean... Sakky later summarizes a lot of his/her points with "Most..." and there still are arguments telling the other people that their personal viewpoints are specifically wrong. I notice most of soozievt start his/her sentences with "I believe..." and Sakky refutes with something along the lines with "majority/minority". There's NO argument there.</p>

<p>I mean... my parents (and if one wants to be safe "MOST PARENTS") want me to get into college in order to obtain a high end job, but I don't. So am I automatically wrong and the truth is that I want to go to college to get money. Uh, you don't determine my mind. Agree to disagree. I mean this seems like one of those stereotype debates: take for example "all Asians are good at math." That stirs controversy, but once you change the phrase to "a significant portion of Asians are good at math", then the controversy basically dissolves.</p>

<p>I'm glad that I read a lot interesting points, but the fact is that a lot of you are arguing just to argue, not to resolve the MAIN points of others.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What particularly ticks me off is that soozievt mentioned that the reason her kids go to school is to obtain an education and is in no way (oh apologies... I meant NOT PRIMARILY) affiliated with economic ends

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I just want to clarify that is not entirely accurate as to how I feel about this. I think I said somewhere along the line but don't wish to find the post now....but that I see several reasons why I send my kids to college and grad school. One is for the education itself. To learn and grow and to be an educated person. Another reason is for the total college experience that I think is very worthwhile for this time in their lives. Another reason is that by having a college degree, more opportunities become available compared to the more limited opportunities for those without a degree. So, college hopefully will afford opportunities in life, be it in their fields of study or in something else that may require a college degree. </p>

<p>But what I also said is that I value their college and the expense in sending them no matter what they major in and no matter what they may earn when they get out. I would pay the same no matter the prestige of the school. I would pay the same no matter what they chose to major in (even if they go into low paying or iffy fields....one of my kids is in a very iffy field). I don't feel that by going to certain colleges, they will earn more than if attending another. Sending them to college just was not related to how much they could earn if they attended X school or majored in Y field and they never thought about any of that either. They didn't pick their schools with potential earnings in mind, nor did they pick their career fields with potential earnings as a factor. </p>

<p>I do believe, however, that by attending college and becoming educated, that greater opportunities will be available. I don't see that as related as much to how much they earn but by the many options they may be afforded that will bring them satisfaction. I would pay for their schooling no matter how much money they earn someday or not.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, as an aside, my two kids love their colleges and nothing pleases me more and I consider that priceless. Their lives will be impacted in some fashion by the experiences they are having at college.</p>

<p>By the way, I am not trying to argue what is right or wrong or how others may feel. I am only representing how I feel about my kids' educations and how I think they feel. Others may feel differently and that's cool. I do object to statements that "most feel this way" because as you can see here, many of us don't fit into the description of how "most feel". And I started participating in this discussion because I read Ben's post that describes how he sees many of his fellow MIT students and I simply thought upon reading the post that hey, my kid is similar....she may fit into MIT very nicely. I do expect she'll meet all types. I hope she loves it as much as she has loved her undergrad school. She is quite psyched about the opportunity to go to MIT next year and chose it over several other really good options.</p>

<p>Saying you go to college to get a degree is kind of like saying you paint in order to get a painting. :/</p>

<p>soozievt: I think I may have been unclear and I apologize. I disliked Sakky's attacks, not yours. In fact, I support everything you had said because that is precisely how I feel about education and you reiterated your points that I was trying to look for earlier, but couldn't find. So if someone opens up an argument, I know exactly what to look for now. Yay.</p>

<p>I agree with Sakky in that MANY people go to college, or even aim for brand-name colleges instead of lesser ones in order to increase their economic opportunity. However, that is not MY motive. Neither is it for MANY OTHERS. Thus, there is nothing more to argue about there. The only time such an argument is constructive is if someone argues and disagrees about the "most", but time and time again in this post, even if the arguments sometimes consist of the "most" quantifier, the disagreements are directed towards "you".</p>

<p>RevDem, thank you for clarifying as I may have misunderstood. I also just was trying to state my position clearly as your summary of it wasn't an entirely accurate picture. No problem. </p>

<p>I agree with what you have just written. For certain there are SOME people whose aim is a brand name school and perceive that will translate into greater income. As can be seen on this thread, there are students like you, others who have posted, as well as my own kids who attend "elite" colleges but for different motives.</p>

<p>And just to be clear, I do think going to college, and even a "good" college will increase OPPORTUNITIES but I don't define those in economic terms. I believe you would be on that same wavelength.</p>

<p>quite poetic olo</p>

<p>I used to play video games. When in middle school. When I think about now, I realize I've lost tons of time. Now, I realize I have much more fun with academic EC's. I joined science team freshman year, and I have not regretted it one bit. I've studied tree identification, heat transfer, engineering problems, built a marimba, an electric vehicle, an egg catcher. The list goes on. Tomorrow I'm going to go work on a robot. I mean come on. Video Games? When I'm forty, I will be able to tell my kids "hey, that's a sassafras! Wanna smell the pith inside the twigs?" I prefer that much more than telling them I got some score killing a monster in world of warcraft. I've never engaged in sports at school, by the way, but football, at least, keeps you fit.</p>

<p>I'm back. I'm sure you all are happy to see me again , ha ha.</p>

<p>
[quote]
soozievt: I think I may have been unclear and I apologize. I disliked Sakky's attacks, not yours. In fact, I support everything you had said because that is precisely how I feel about education and you reiterated your points that I was trying to look for earlier, but couldn't find. So if someone opens up an argument, I know exactly what to look for now. Yay.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, actually, I think soozievt ultimately agreed with me that career considerations were ultimately a factor when she said: </p>

<p>
[quote]
I do believe, however, that by attending college and becoming educated, that greater opportunities will be available. I don't see that as related as much to how much they earn but by the many options they may be afforded that will bring them satisfaction

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And that's precisely what I'm talking about. </p>

<p>To wit: nowhere have I ever said that all MIT students are out to earn every single possible penny they can garner. But the ability to pursue the career opportunities that you want - *that is valuable. * </p>

<p>
[quote]
Sakky has repeatedly said that there is only one (those who are in it for the money).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No I didn't. If you don't believe me, then please point to the quote where I specifically said that. </p>

<p>What I said is that is that people want the career opportunities that they desire, whatever those opportunities may be, and whether those opportunities are high-paying or not. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't want to go to college to get a degree. Screw that. If it were possible to get into grad school without a BS then I would probalby do just that, unless I got the BS by doing what I wanted anyways. Caltech and MIT (along with other rigorous schools) were both up high on my list in terms of choice because of their academic rigor, and let me tell you, I honeslty do not care if I live in a **** hole for the rest of my life as long as I can do what I want to do, learn what I want to learn, and research what I want to research.</p>

<p>Money means nohting to me, and never has. So there's at least one person in this world that does not fit your assumptions of why one goes to college: it is most certailny not to get a degree. I go because I want to learn.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting. Would you really be willing to tell the adcom that - specifically that you don't really care about graduating? Somehow I think that's going to hurt your chances of getting admitted. I doubt that there are many adcom officers who want to admit somebody who isn't really interested in actually graduating. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I agree with Sakky in that MANY people go to college, or even aim for brand-name colleges instead of lesser ones in order to increase their economic opportunity. However, that is not MY motive. Neither is it for MANY OTHERS. Thus, there is nothing more to argue about there. The only time such an argument is constructive is if someone argues and disagrees about the "most", but time and time again in this post, even if the arguments sometimes consist of the "most" quantifier, the disagreements are directed towards "you".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I would say that there is still a lot to argue about. Consider the thought exercise - let's say that MIT provided absolutely no boost in career opportunities whatsoever. None. That is, we live in a world where an MIT graduate has the exact same career opportunity choice set that somebody who never went at all. Be honest - how many people would still want to go?</p>

<p>
[quote]
@Sakky: While your arguments would be valid for most universities, schools like MIT and Caltech are specifically geared to accelerate the smartest students. MIT is not designed to serve the lowest common denominator. Instead, the institute is designed to make it possible for the smartest people to race ahead at an unimaginable rate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, yet at the end of the day, a significant percentage of MIT and (especially) Caltech students, relative to other top schools, do poorly. Heck, my brother, a Caltech alum, knew a few who actually flunked out. They were indeed - as you say - some of the smartest students in high school. But they did poorly at Caltech, poorly enough to not be able to graduate. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Now of course, supporting infrastructure has been developed to help students, because sometimes people slip and fall. But consistantly failing all of your courses?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You don't have to fail all your courses. You just have to fail enough of them to land on academic probation, and from there, it's a short ride to expulsion. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I do not think people considering Sloan should go to Sloan because they can't handle the difficulty of other subjects. They should be going to Sloan because they want to study buisness/management. You're making it sound like Sloan is a school of dumb people who failed out of course 6/8/18/etc. This is definetely not the case

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The ideal is obviously that you study what you like and do well in it. But there is a big difference between the ideal and reality. As I said above, some MIT students do poorly. For them, Sloan is a highly useful safety net, as it's a lot better for them to switch to Sloan than to not even graduate at all. </p>

<p>
[quote]
IMO, MIT is not designed for people who are on the borderline of failing out. These are rare cases, and these people have to make tough decisions. But ultimately the institute is filled by people who are indeed succeeding and going on to graduate in their desired fields. And anyone coming to MIT or Caltech should know ahead of time that they are taking a risk

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I think now you're starting to agree with me. You said it yourself - sometimes you have to make tough decisions. </p>

<p>But I said it before, and I don't think anybody would dispute, there are some people at MIT who are doing poorly. Surely anybody who's been at MIT have seen people try out the most rigorous majors (i.e. course VI) and don't do well. It's what they like, it's what they wanted to do, but then they come to MIT and find out that it's just too hard for them. In that case, they may have to make the 'tough decision' to choose an easier major. Like Sloan.</p>

<p>Look, by no means am I trying to single out MIT in this respect. The truth is, this sort of 'arbitrage of majors' happens at most other engineering schools. For example, I know a lot of students at Berkeley who started off in EECS or Chemical Engineering and then ended up switching to something much easier. I think Alexandre (or maybe it was somebody else) discussed how many students at Michigan started off in engineering but then did poorly and hence switched to one of the easier humanities or soc-sci majors. It is simply the nature of most engineering schools - including MIT and Caltech - that some students will end up doing poorly. In fact, the curve almost guarantees that it be so. </p>

<p>Again, to reiterate, the presence of Sloan is therefore a great thing because it serves as a safety valve for those students who do poorly in other majors. That's not bad - it's good. At least those students can still graduate. That's a heck of a lot better than flunking them out entirely. </p>

<p>Look, it would be ideal if MIT (and Caltech) were to admit only those students who are going to do well in their intended major. In fact, ultimately, that's what I think all schools should do. But, like it or not, that doesn't happen. Whether we like it or not, some students who come in intending to be engineers at MIT (or Caltech or Berkeley or Michigan, etc.) end up doing poorly in engineering. Hence, the question then is what happens to these students? I would argue that giving the opportunity to switch to an easier major from which they can successfully graduate is the right thing to do. {Note, if they still insist on pursuing their desired major, they are free to try to transfer to another school. But at least they have the option to stay at their current school and still graduate, even if it's not in the major that they originally wanted.}</p>

<p>
[quote]
Sakky, earlier you said something like "most MIT students aren't following their dreams."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, really? When did I say that? Please point to the quote where I specifically said that. </p>

<p>
[quote]
*Originally Posted by sakky
Seems to me that nobody cares about those people who can't handle the rigor. But why not? These are human beings too. *
As has been mentioned many times, they are free to transfer to another school

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why? Why should they have to? What's wrong with giving them the option to stay and pursue a major that they can handle? It seems to me that you want to take options away from people.</p>

<p>Note, I am certainly not requiring anybody to stay. Sure, if somebody wants to transfer out because they still want to pursue the major that they like (but in which they doing poorly in at MIT), they are free to do that. But I'm giving people more options. Seems to me that you don't want people to have more options. </p>

<p>Look, if you don't care about the option of going to Sloan, that's one thing. But to say that other people shouldn't have the option of going to Sloan, that's something else entirely. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You keep arguing that people want to have food on the table. Um, yes. However, you don't need to go to college to get a job which pays enough to put food on the table. See above. Most people go to college to learn something. People like you apparently go to college so they can buy a more expensive high-status car to show off to their neighbors.</p>

<p>And finally, you keep saying all of these things like "clearly, almost everyone thinks x" and "obviously, nearly all students prefer y," and I would just like to know exactly where you learned telepathy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Um, considering all of the words you've tried to put in my mouth and claiming that I made statements I never actually said, I could just as easily ask you where YOU learned telepathy? Again, when did I ever say that "most MIT students aren't following their dreams"? When did I ever say that "people... apparently go to college so they can buy a more expensive high-status car to show off to their neighbors."?</p>

<p>
[quote]
second, sakky views the world through his own lens. for him, education is a means to an end, and money is the only end that "really matters in the real world".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, wrong. Please point to the quote where I said that money is the "only end" or the only thing that "matters in the real world". Oh, can't do it, can you?</p>

<p>What I said is that money is one thing that matters. Obviously plenty of other things matter too, and I never claimed that they didn't. </p>

<p>Ben, in the future, if you want to debate me, I have a word of simple advice to you. Debate what I actually said. Not what you apparently want me to say, but what I actually say. </p>

<p>
[quote]
i think the general response to this is, you can feel free to live in your own little real world where all that is true. it's not a real world that's particularly relevant to most of us. and the fact that you keep repeating that "most people this" and "most people that" isn't fooling anyone, as Laura said. nobody thinks you have privileged epistemic access to other people's values and desires.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting that you would make such a statement when both of you have attempted to claim that I made statements that I never actually said. Ben, by all means, feel free to live in your little world where you think I made statements that I never actually did, and where you apparently think you have epistemic access to what I actually believe.</p>

<p>
[quote]
but for saying that the emphasis on intellectual rigor throughout the rest of MIT is a practically meaningless social fad.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, I never said it was 'meaningless'.</p>

<p>But to the notion of it being a 'social fad', why that so controversial, except for the verbiage that is being used? Look, the fact is, rigorous intellectualism is a cultural trait just like any other social characteristic. That hardly makes it 'bad', it just means that it is subject to the same social pressures that other characteristics are. To say otherwise - that it is not subject to any social pressures at all - now that would be a deeply controversial statement.</p>

<p>But I think you have not addressed the key point, which has to do with the boundaries of rigor. Sure, rigor is great for those who can handle it. But what about those who can't? It is precisely for those who can't handle the rigor is why having safety nets around is a great thing. Sure, if you don't need the safety net, then you don't care. But what if you do need it?</p>

<p>
[quote]
The mathematician Paul Erdos used to say that when a student or colleague left the field of mathematics, the individual had "died". To some extent, a student who enters MIT committed to the idea of becoming an engineer, physicist, or mathematician and who then finds that he or she does not quite have the skills to attain that goal will probably find it psychologically difficult at MIT. It's easier to leave U.C. Berkeley's School of Engineering and major in business in the context of a campus of more than 30,000 students. It's easier to switch from a math major to literature at Harvard or Yale. In those schools, one can join a fairly large group of colleagues highly committed to the liberal arts. At MIT on the other hand, a student may trudge on through the math or engineering major simply to avoid the stigma of having "died." I do know of at least one MIT alum who did this, although this was several decades ago.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And this is precisely why I think that the Sloan School is so important to the social dynamic at MIT. </p>

<p>As a case in point, how many of you know that Sloan management is actually one of the largest undergrad majors on campus - in fact, something like the #3 or #4 most popular undergrad major (I can't remember the exact figure)? Of course, I think it is quite well know that Sloan grants, by far, the most master's degrees (the MBA) of any major on campus, but it also bears mentioning that Sloan confers numerous bachelor's degrees also. </p>

<p>Now, obviously Sloan is still dwarfed by the size of the School of Engineering as a whole (aggregated across every engineering major). But the point is, you now can find a community of people at MIT who are not so technically minded, who are more interested in 'softer' topics like leadership or communication or negotiation. Granted, it's not a very large community. But it's a lot better than nothing, and in particular, is a lot better than how it used to be in terms of social support (as the Sloan ug program used to be significantly smaller in the past). </p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't know that I'm actually adding anything here, but I want to add my agreement with Laura that I'm following my dreams -- since about sixth grade, I haven't wanted to be anything other than a scientist. And here I am in graduate school with my MIT degree, making probably half (a third?) what I could be making in consulting. </p>

<p>But I have zero interest in doing consulting, or anything else that would make me more money, because the only thing I've ever wanted to do is become a scientist. If somebody told me I wasn't allowed to become a scientist, or if my thesis lab went belly-up, I would take my MIT and Harvard degrees and become a zookeeper.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See, right there, that's the real problem. I never actually said that MIT students care only about money and nothing else. I said they care about having the career they want (as long as it pays decently), but not that they care only solely about money. Nevertheless, LauraN claims that I said that, and now everybody simply assumes that I did. </p>

<p>So, to wit, what I would recommend is that for those who want to dispute me, please as a first step, carefully read what I actually said. Not what somebody claims that I said, but what I actually said. And put it in the proper context. </p>

<p>Otherwise, I don't see why I should even bother saying anything at all. Y'all can simply have a debate over what people claim that I said.</p>

<p>@Sakky: One problem I have with the idea of some majors being easier than the others is that it compromises what seems to be an important idea at MIT. </p>

<p>Notice that there is no ranking at graduation, no latin honors, no honorary degrees, and that the brass rat ring is in a way a symbol of equality among the student body. It means that when you meet another MIT student, you can be sure that they have worked really really hard, and achieved a level of competence matched by few others. </p>

<p>This is what the reputation of the school rests upon, the idea that through and through the students have reached a very very very high bar of competence. It also inspires a sense of comradery, because you count on your peers to be able to share your burden and together move forward. A team is only as great as its weakest link. And ultimately history and life are conquered by the winners.</p>

<p>Now you suggest that all the kids who found engineering/science "too hard" go to Sloan. I feel that Sloan should not be designed as a safety net, but rather a school that really pushes forward the best of the best in terms of entrepreneurs.</p>

<p>I read an interesting article in the Tech very recently in which they were talking to the new admissions director. He said he was going to start slightly shifting the admissions office's focus to bring in kids who have a sincere interest in science, mathematics and technology. Even if they want to do other things, central is that they display a strong interest in science, mathematics and technology.</p>

<p>Also, 5 lengthy posts in a row? Damn.</p>

<p>
[quote]
@Sakky: One problem I have with the idea of some majors being easier than the others is that it compromises what seems to be an important idea at MIT.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look, let's be realistic. Every school has some majors that are easier/harder than others. Can you imagine a school where every single major was of the exact same difficulty level? Surely you would agree that that's impossible. In fact, that's precisely why some people at MIT say that certain majors are more "hard-core" than others. </p>

<p>
[quote]
This is what the reputation of the school rests upon, the idea that through and through the students have reached a very very very high bar of competence. It also inspires a sense of comradery, because you count on your peers to be able to share your burden and together move forward. A team is only as great as its weakest link. And ultimately history and life are conquered by the winners.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This all gets back to some basic points that I have been making throughout this thread that is perhaps the difference between me and others here, which I summarize with the following questions: who exactly are the 'winners'? And what does it mean to 'win'. Like I noted before, Sloan grads earn some of the highest starting salaries of any of the majors at MIT. Perhaps even more relevantly, Stanford engineering grads also earn quite high salaries despite going to a school that offers a relatively relaxed environment. </p>

<p>Now, before everybody tries to jump down my throat again, let me clarify that I am not saying that money is the only thing that matters. What I am saying is that this really all gets down to existential questions of what does it mean to 'win', what does it mean to be a 'team', what does it mean to be a 'weak link'? I would strongly dispute the notion that Sloan grads are somehow 'weak links' or that they are not part of the 'team' or that they are somehow 'losers'. Employers also seem not to think that Sloan grads are 'losers', for if otherwise, why would they pay them such high salaries? Why not just save money by paying them less? Similarly, the Stanford 'team' doesn't seem to be any worse for the wear just because it's practically impossible to actually flunk out there. Or heck, look at Harvard. That's a school that is significantly less rigorous than MIT. Yet can anybody deny the 'winningness' of Harvard? </p>

<p>But again, it all depends on your definition of 'winning'. If your definition is that 'winning' is a purely internal psychological matter of completing extremely rigorous work just for the pure satisfaction of doing so, then that's fine, but then we have to ask whether that definition is truly a meaningful one for others. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Now you suggest that all the kids who found engineering/science "too hard" go to Sloan. I feel that Sloan should not be designed as a safety net,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all, what's wrong with that? I think safety nets aren't bad things, indeed the opposite: they are great things. If Sloan has to be that safety net, then so be it. That's vastly better than not having a safety net at all. </p>

<p>Look, this is akin to how many humanities and social science majors serve as de-facto "safety nets" at other schools. For example, take Berkeley, a school that I know very well. Of the people who got weeded out of one of the Berkeley engineering majors, many of them simply ended up declaring one of the humanities/social science majors like Peace and Conflict Studies or Ethnic Studies or Film Studies. {In fact, it's a continuing irony at Berkeley that so many majors that have the words "Studies" in their names don't actually require a lot of 'studying'). Now, granted, one might say that these disciplines shouldn't be serving as 'safety nets'. But I would argue that that's a heck of a lot better than just tossing those students out completely. At least those Berkeley students can still get a Berkeley degree. </p>

<p>Now, where I would agree with you is that maybe Berkeley shouldn't be admitting those students in the first place, and similarly, maybe MIT shouldn't be admitting those students who need that safety net. True, very true. But given that MIT can't or won't stop admitting these students, then I think it's a great thing that MIT would provide a safety net, and if that has to be done through Sloan, so be it. Far better that than no net at all. </p>

<p>But note, the key difference between Berkeley and MIT is that MIT's safety net is far more marketable than Berkeley's safety net. For example, you graduate with a degree in Peace and Conflict Studies from Berkeley and there aren't exactly a whole lot of high-paying employment options available to you (although it's still clearly better than not even having a degree at all). But with an MIT Sloan degree, you have ample opportunity to nab numerous high-paying jobs. {To reiterate, I'm not saying that money is the only thing that matters. But, ceteris paribus, it's clearly better to have money than to not have it.} </p>

<p>And besides, Sloan is not the only course that is doing this. Molliebatmit once specifically stated that one of her majors, BCS (course IX), is considered to be a relatively easy major at MIT. {Note, for those who would dispute that, take it up with her, as I'm not the one who said it.} Hence, one could say that BCS is also a 'safety net'. The upshot is that there will always be some majors that are easier than others. </p>

<p>
[quote]
but rather a school that really pushes forward the best of the best in terms of entrepreneurs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ha! That's a nice ideal. But the fact of the matter is, many (probably most) Sloan undergrads do not found or join startups. Instead, they (unsurprisingly) end up in consulting or finance as can be seen on p. 13 of the following pdf. </p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation07.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation07.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I don't think that should be shocking. After all, that's grads from the top B-schools tend to do: end up in consulting or finance. For example, most of the Sloan MBA grads similarly end up in consulting or finance (which includes investment banking, investment management, diversified financial services, VC/PE, etc.)</p>

<p><a href="http://mitsloan.mit.edu/pdf/fullreport06_07.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mitsloan.mit.edu/pdf/fullreport06_07.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>
[quote]
I read an interesting article in the Tech very recently in which they were talking to the new admissions director. He said he was going to start slightly shifting the admissions office's focus to bring in kids who have a sincere interest in science, mathematics and technology. Even if they want to do other things, central is that they display a strong interest in science, mathematics and technology.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hey, don't get me wrong. I like science. I like technology. I like math.</p>

<p>But the truth of the matter is that the world is made up of more than just science and math. You also need strong communications and diplomacy skills. The perennial stereotype of the MIT grad is a person who knows what the right answer is, but can't convince others of it. Former MIT Dean Ann Friedlaender once infamously said that "Too many M.I.T. graduates end up working for too many Princeton and Harvard graduates." </p>

<p>M.I.T</a>. LOOKS BEYOND ENGINEERING - New York Times</p>

<p>Again, one of the great things of the Sloan School is that it can teach you how to deal with social and institutional forces, and that's a highly realistic and practical style of education.</p>

<p>The way Sloan has been singled out in this thread for comment (or criticism, take your pick) strikes me as a bit unfair. Depending on your personal preferences/biases, it's not too difficult to concoct an argument challenging the supposed rigor of most other majors. For example, I've heard Course 2 referred to as MechE(asy). And, dont you think that Course 6's reputation for "rigor" is embellished a bit by the number of students taking Course 6? Most majors are only what you make of them anyway. The whole "my major is tougher than yours therefore I'm better than you" thing is pretty lame.</p>

<p>does MIT have hot guys ;)</p>

<p>Yeah, actually, hot guys just oozing out of every crevice. So many hot guys + so many ugly girls = easy pickings I guess.</p>

<p>I'm late to the table here, huh.</p>

<p>I just want to say, that sakky strikes a nerve, and I'll just speak for me, cause my parents have really started to hate my major, and letting it out. And for EVERY REASON THAT SAKKY HAS SAID, ever. Esp since my cousin is a management major-- and lemme tell you if I were 15 I'd be ****ed by the things you say cause it ain't a cakewalk either, it's competitive as hell and they treat interns like dogs, the whole thing's no gravy train from my perspective-- Anyways I'm not deaf or blind to parental/societal pressures. And like there's no reason to pretend that I am. I'm totally insecure about my track, all the time, but somehow, the miracle is that I've been born into a situation that has given me the option of, you know... being.. happier in my career than my parents ever were. And I mean I'll be damned if I don't do my best with this kind of package.</p>

<p>They say all the time to me, they say that security is the greatest happiness. That nothing could ever hold my (or anyone else's) interest for life, and life is something that happens kind of independent of your career. In the cracks of it, before 9, after 5, on weekends. I don't think that's wrong, it's the world they know. But at this point I have no reason to believe it can't be better. For me. I'm not the smartest physics major at this school, or nearly the most passionate, but already I sit down with a magazine on trainrides and giggle to myself about the specs of the LHC at Cern, feeling giddy about all the particle physics that might come out of that thing. Like, I'm so so grateful to have had the opportunity to be even this close to all of it. To have learned the appreciation for it. I can't verbalize how much this has meant to me, and I really can't fathom ever regretting the education I've gotten here. No matter where I end up, financially. That kind of security is hard to quantify, but it's so necessary also.</p>

<p>I am sort of in pebbles situation, the only plus point being I haven't started college yet. Here I am thinking I could major in , graduate with a degree in and become a professor cum researcher in biology (as a default plan) but ofcourse ... my parents clearly put forth that they would be happy in me doing sth less risky like EE (more job opps.). I guess being a researcher u would consider urself 'at the mercy of the university' if u think of it financially. </p>

<p>btw... hope someone answers this...do u have to declare which major u want to do at the time of applying to MIT? or does it need to correspond in any way to ur app. essay?
I mean I can talk about my interests and projects in DNA etc. in my app. essay but take a physics major right? (which i intend to do)
I seriously don't know how this would appear to someone other than myself.
ty</p>

<p>Dint want to hijack an already hijacked thread, so I opened another one.</p>

<p>@sakky
@soozievt
@Ben Golub
@everyone else cutting-n-pasting to a ludicrous degree</p>

<p>Thank you for the excellent reminder of why I haven't read/posted on cc in a while -- endless arguments in which the posts get longer and longer, the <quotes> blot the landscape, and people seem to see threads as a means to push their points (does anyone ever say "oh, I guess you're right. I see your point. I stand corrected." ?), and sorry, talk ad infinitum about themselves or their kids. (as I have done in the past when I was a CC addict) Really, who has this kind of time?</quotes></p>

<p>I can't recommend highly enough a break from CC. Detox. Take CC off your favorites list. And then come back months later and see what you sounded like. You might be surprised.</p>

<p>So re: subject of thread -- </p>

<p>Good at MIT -- the people. MIT has some of the most amazing, cool, interesting, exciting people you will ever meet doing cool, exciting, amazing things. And I do mean amazing things (whatever the major or the grades you get).</p>

<p>Not so good at MIT -- the buildings. Well, I don't think it's a particularly attractive campus, but plenty of people disagree with me. It's an architectural hodge-podge, but I think they like it that way. It would never win a beauty contest with Caltech, Stanford, Yale, to name a few, but that's just my opinion.</p>

<p>Let's shed more light than heat here! If you disagree, carry on as usual. Doesn't matter to me.</p>

<p>A.M.</p>