<p>For people who are/were in Columbia and otherwise, what dit you love and HATE the most about Columbia?</p>
<p>I'm debating whether to apply there early...</p>
<p>Pros: wonderful core curriculum with the opportunity to discuss Great Books, artistic works in small classes...beautiful, monumental campus...extraordinary libraries and collections...open, encouraging, enthusiastic professors...major celebrity politicians/academics always visiting and speaking...access to all the educational and other opportunities of New York...safe neighborhood that caters to students...many options with regard to social life (going out on campus or off, staying in, local bars vs. downtown clubs, many varied extracurriculars, fraternities exist but do not dominate scene, etc.)...the concomitant diversity of the student body (there's a kindred spirit for every personality)</p>
<p>Cons: dorms are comfortable but by no means anything like the colleges of Yale or the houses of Harvard...quite a few people here for the wrong reasons (i.e. they enjoy New York but hate our neighborhood and/or the Core and complain incessantly about this)...aggravating understated competition among student body (people essentially trying to outcomplain one another about work)...diversity of personalities can also equal disparateness of a fragmented student body with fewer bases for school/class unity than those at other schools...distant and often frustrating administration that seems set up to impede ECs rather than facilitate them</p>
<p>Pros: beautiful campus (unlike a certian other New York based school who forgot to put it in its budget), best school colors of the ivy league</p>
<p>Cons: completely restrictive core curriculum, you will take these classes come hell or high water</p>
<p>Ways to avoid the core, go to Grinnel and transfer junior year</p>
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best school colors of the ivy league
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<p>Ick. Columbia's got some of the worst colors in the Ivy league, IMO. Baby blue? See:</p>
<p>See this thread. Same exact thing:</p>
<p>IMO the baby blue columbia sweatshirt is a definite must have.</p>
<p>I only have a navy one with the baby blue lettering.</p>
<p>thanks for the link, columbia :)</p>
<p>Would you guys say the Core helps foster a feeling of unity, because everyone is reading the same material at the same time?</p>
<p>Not enough to compensate for the overall lack of community.</p>
<p>Seaghost- it depends. A lot of the people I happened to be living around freshman year were engineers, and most were not taking Lit Hum. Most of those who weren't were athletes with whom I did not want to have a literary conversation (which would have most likely gone like "I didn't read the Symposium, what was that about?" come exam time, when they actually cared). I've heard the experience was much different on the social floors filled with outgoing humanities majors in Carman, or even among those who chose to study nights in certain rooms in Butler. </p>
<p>And speaking of the engineers- one of the distressing things about Columbia is that, in future classes in which you might want to reference a core author- you risk alienating a SEAS or GS student who had not taken the core- and there will always be a few of these, plus some who never read anything on the Lit Hum syllabus out of laziness/principle. </p>
<p>What is a more unifying attribute is the experience of being in a Core class. Everyone will make reference to the stereotypical characters in each section, and at least know the authors generally. And since people tend to at least read the Iliad, Homeric references abound. One critical barometer of this was the Varsity Show (satiric campus musical that everyone sees- one of our true unifying experiences) of two years ago, which was entirely core-oriented. Even then, though, there were complaints about the CC-centricness of the show, and this year's production was oriented far more around interschool conflict as a result. </p>
<p>(edit- see my response to the thread on the pros and cons of the Core for a more positive view)</p>
<p>That said, I think there are enough traditions at Columbia now that one can at least find some common ground with a fellow Columbian. At the very least, he or she will have complaints about the residence halls, the food, the administrators, the landscaping, or some other unavoidable aspect of college life. In fact, Columbians can probably be distinguished by such critical faculties; a Poli Sci professor I had quit because, in his words, "Columbia students ask too many questions, as opposed to Princeton students, who behave". So to a large extent, if you want to be a mere appendage of that large, homogenous organism known as the "student body," you may indeed be served better by another school. There is nurturing here, but this is a place that nurtures individualism, not compliance. Columbians prefer debate to complacent sloganeering. And hence, you will likely come to define Columbia itself for what it means to you- and at least an aspect of that will be that you rarely went unchallenged.</p>
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a Poli Sci professor I had quit because, in his words, "Columbia students ask too many questions, as opposed to Princeton students, who behave".
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<p>For some reason I doubt that Cameron left Columbia because he thought the students at Princeton would ask easier questions. ;)</p>
<p>Cameron? This was a different guy.</p>
<p>Hmm... I'm only familiar with two poli sci profs switching between Princeton and Columbia in the past few years (Doyle and Cameron). Who else was there?</p>
<p>Edit: Actually, Helen Milner also left Columbia to join Princeton a few years ago.</p>
<p>Stacey, or so he claimed. In my opinion he was too much of a hack to make it at either.</p>
<p>I've spent a lot of time up at Columbia and Barnard. The big downside as I see it is the lack of community. The campus empties out and it has nothing like the kind of campus excitment you find at more compact Ivies that are in real college towns (yes, Columbia is in NYC, but it is at the outskirts of the areas people tend to spend a lot of time in - NYU may be in one of the great college towns, but Columbia isn't because you have to take a very long subway ride to get there). </p>
<p>Because of this, social life seems fragmented - you don't see people of diverse backgrounds interacting with each other as much, and parties invariably tend to be more private, off-campus affairs with more drinking and drug use (like what you see with the daughter's experience in the Sopranos!) rather than on-campus, accessible, egalitarian festivities where the drug use is moderated and people are friendly, open and connected through their campus activites and genuine interest in classes. In my opinion, the kinds of private parties and private social networks at Columbia can get very snobby. Plan to spend a LOT of time (sometimes an hour between trains) waiting in the steamy, rat-infested tunnels at the 116th street subway station, or better yet, meeting a few rich students so you can split the extravagant cab fare to other parts of NYC.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people at Columbia who think of it as more or less a commuter school. Also, yes it is true that Columbia has some great faculty members, but they don't wander the campus interacting with students like they do at places like Oxford, Yale and Harvard. They tend to teach their two classes per week and then drive home to their houses an hour away (because the cost of living is so high in NYC even many professors can't afford to live anywhere near the campus; if they can, many choose to live in other parts of NYC). Of course there are exceptions, and some professors can be very accessible, particularly I would say in the history of art department where the necessity to live near NYC's museums keeps profs in the city, but the general rule is that it's not the best place if you want to develop very strong relationships with faculty.</p>
<p>Upsides: Quality of the libraries, a few departments being exceptionally strong (art history being one of them), general caliber of the students, proximity to internship and research opportunities in some of the more obscure fields of work that you can find in NYC, e.g., Afro-American museums.</p>
<p>To this Stacey guy, I'm not familiar with anyone by the name. Is it this Jeffrey</a> Stacey? Considering that he was a TA in perhaps the weakest / most basic IR lecture course Princeton offers, I suspect his perspective was quite limited. Same for the course he taught at Columbia (presumably).</p>
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I've spent a lot of time up at Columbia and Barnard.
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<p>How much time? Given the misinformation you've posted, have you actually attended Columbia?</p>
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parties invariably tend to be more private, off-campus affairs with more drinking and drug use (like what you see with the daughter's experience in the Sopranos!) rather than on-campus, accessible, egalitarian festivities where the drug use is moderated and people are friendly, open and connected through their campus activites and genuine interest in classes.
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<p>The drinking and drug use is moderated at other Ivies? I've never heard of such lunacy! I guarantee you that the boys at Cornell and Dartmouth drink far more booze and do far more drugs than that of Columbia. And, speaking of "egalitarian festivities" in terms of other Ivies is quite amazing. Many of the Ivies (Dartmouth and Princeton, the most) have exclusive fraternity / eating club environments that are the farthest thing from egalitarian. Columbia, with no true culture of Greek Life / exclusive WASPy eating clubs, is in some ways one of the most open campuses. Your post is truly outrageous.</p>
<p>And what does it mean for drinking / drug use to be moderated? Drinking is illegal for those under 21 and drugs are always illegal. Who moderates drug use? Do the administrators or RAs set rules about how many joints of cannibus or how many tablets of extasy people can use at other Ivies?</p>
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Plan to spend a LOT of time (sometimes an hour between trains) waiting in the steamy, rat-infested tunnels at the 116th street subway station
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<p>Unless there's an emergency (i.e., someone dies on the tracks and they shut down service), you'll never wait more than 15-20 minutes. What's your beef with all these exaggerations?</p>
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Also, yes it is true that Columbia has some great faculty members, but they don't wander the campus interacting with students like they do at places like Oxford, Yale and Harvard.
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<p>What the heck does it mean to "wander the campus interacting with students"? Have you actually attended these other schools, or is this something you saw in a movie? Profs have jobs -- to teach, do research, publish, write grants. The only profs who "wander the campus" are probably the 90 year old senile ones who don't know where the heck they are.</p>
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hey tend to teach their two classes per week and then drive home to their houses an hour away (because the cost of living is so high in NYC even many professors can't afford to live anywhere near the campus; if they can, many choose to live in other parts of NYC).
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<p>Columbia provides subsidized housing for its faculty in the Morningside area. The housing is very cheap and is relatively nice. I've been invited to several faculty apartments. This is more ignorance on your part.</p>
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Of course there are exceptions, and some professors can be very accessible, particularly I would say in the history of art department where the necessity to live near NYC's museums keeps profs in the city,
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<p>Why would it be any more necessary for an art history professor to live near NYC's museums than it would be for a biology professor to live in the city near his laboratory? Do you just make this stuff up and convince yourself of its truth?</p>
<p>GR- yes, it was Jeffrey Stacey, and limited perspective barely begins to describe him! Worst professor I've ever dealt with at Columbia...absent during office hours ("my office is under renovation...it may be difficult to find me"), emails answered, if ever, three months later. It is good to see he has been purged from Princeton as well. That class is in far more capable hands at Columbia now; it's too bad I'm no longer a freshman...I might have stuck with Poli Sci if not for Mr. Stacey's incompetence. </p>
<p>As for Mr. Posterx...</p>
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The big downside as I see it is the lack of community. The campus empties out and it has nothing like the kind of campus excitment you find at more compact Ivies that are in real college towns (yes, Columbia is in NYC, but it is at the outskirts of the areas people tend to spend a lot of time in - NYU may be in one of the great college towns, but Columbia isn't because you have to take a very long subway ride to get there).
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<p>Misrepresentative prevarication! If any school has a diffuse social life, it's NYU! Many Columbians (possibly most) spend the vast majority of their time in Morningside Heights. There are endless jokes about people who rarely go south of 110th Street...hence Morningside Heights feels very much like any college town, albeit with ten stories of apartments above its shops, restaurants, and bars. The fact that few New Yorkers spend time in Morningside Heights just underscores the point that it's very much Columbia's neighborhood, mostly populated with students, professors, and administrators, not a tourist destination. </p>
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Because of this, social life seems fragmented - you don't see people of diverse backgrounds interacting with each other as much, and parties invariably tend to be more private, off-campus affairs with more drinking and drug use (like what you see with the daughter's experience in the Sopranos!) rather than on-campus, accessible, egalitarian festivities where the drug use is moderated and people are friendly, open and connected through their campus activites and genuine interest in classes. In my opinion, the kinds of private parties and private social networks at Columbia can get very snobby.
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<p>Egad, it sounds as if this person is either part of these secretive party networks of the super-rich to which I've certainly never been introduced or else gets all his information about Columbia social life from the Sopranos of all sources. In truth, few if any Columbia undergrads have places off campus, due to the prohibitive cost, and hence parties take place in dorm rooms, hallways, suites, university-owned frat houses, and other properties under the school's purview. They're about as "regulated" as any university's...in actuality probably more, as security at Columbia's dorms is far more stringent than at those of other colleges. Swarthmore's dorms are unlocked and lack security guards! At Columbia, freshmen have to sneak whatever substances they might want to bring into their dorms past the guards as well as their RAs, some of whom are stricter than others (my freshman RA would not tolerate alcohol). </p>
<p>Most Columbians are middle class and could not even afford the glam drug parties you describe, nor want to participate in their culture. If the social scene is dominated by any one institution, it's the neighborhood bar (which, by the way, is a far better place to be if something goes wrong than some frat house or off campus apartment run by students...)</p>
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Plan to spend a LOT of time (sometimes an hour between trains) waiting in the steamy, rat-infested tunnels at the 116th street subway station, or better yet, meeting a few rich students so you can split the extravagant cab fare to other parts of NYC.
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<p>I don't think I've ever waited more than 10 minutes for a subway train. And yes, my "rich" friends and I often split the "extravagant" $15 cab fare four ways...which in the end is barely more than the subway cost. </p>
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I know a lot of people at Columbia who think of it as more or less a commuter school.
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<p>Again, these must be your ueber-wealthy dope fiend party friends who were disgusted by the idea of sharing a bathroom and moved off campus. They must have forgotten to mention that 99% of Columbia undergrads live in student housing.</p>
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Also, yes it is true that Columbia has some great faculty members, but they don't wander the campus interacting with students like they do at places like Oxford, Yale and Harvard. They tend to teach their two classes per week and then drive home to their houses an hour away (because the cost of living is so high in NYC even many professors can't afford to live anywhere near the campus; if they can, many choose to live in other parts of NYC). Of course there are exceptions, and some professors can be very accessible, particularly I would say in the history of art department where the necessity to live near NYC's museums keeps profs in the city, but the general rule is that it's not the best place if you want to develop very strong relationships with faculty.
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<p>Most Columbia professors live in subsidized apartments on Morningside or Riverside Drives, or else Claremont Avenue. The university attracts faculty by dangling the city factor in their faces...it would never force them to live in some cheap part of New Jersey...nor would it have a place for them to park their cars that they supposedly drove in with. Instead, it procures expensive condominia, or, for professors like Jeffrey Sachs, multimillion dollar mansions. And I often see my professors on campus, sometimes several times while on the same walk (it's a small campus, you run into everyone at some point). They will usually wave and smile. Sometimes I'll even see them out in the neighborhood, browsing for books or taking their kids for ice cream.</p>
<p>It's refreshing to hear there are differences of opinion on these subjects. Of course, all things are relative, which is why it is important to stay over at each potential school for a few days and decide for yourself what the social life is like, and what the academics are like (a Thursday through Sunday morning visit is highly recommended). Honestly, go see for yourself - I'm sure students' experiences are varied. Yes, I've spent a lot of time at Columbia and Barnard because I lived in the area. I am very familiar with it and know people studying there right now. I used to frequent the cathedral OSJTD, the avery and the hungarian pastry shop, and even some of the bars and occasionally frats, and private parties near campus. I have also spent a great deal of time at most of the other Ivies. Like the other Ivies, Columbia is a great school and a generally decent place to spend some time.</p>
<p>Columbia likes to trot out its handful of subsidized apartments but frankly speaking, there are many junior and senior faculty who either don't get enough of a subsidy to have a "million dollar mansion" (do you know what a million dollars will buy you in NYC anyways? the <em>average</em> price of an apartment in manhattan - likely a roach and rat infested one - is a million dollars these days!) or who prefer to have a house with a yard that their kids can play in without getting run over by a taxi. Trust me, a house with a yard in Manhattan is going to run you more than a million bucks. Try $15M. Among other factors, such as the lack of open space that students can claim "as their own", this makes campus life poorer than what you find at certain other Ivies.</p>