Note that community and less selective colleges often have intermediate algebra and precalculus (with trigonometry) as one semester courses (total one year) for remedial math students. If remedial math students in college can do it, strong math students in high school should be capable of doing it.
I’m going to try to answer #16 and #17. My daughter K-8 and High school are different districts. In her K-8 they have a magnet program that identified gifted kids and starts in 3rd grade. She was advanced to the point that she took Algebra in 6th grade. She followed the sequence to BC sophomore. That year she was burnt out from math. She was done. Could of took multiple variable junior (or senior year) but was done. Took AP stats junior year and has no math this year her senior year. There was 14 out of 1500 in K-8 that had her sequence. The K-8 fed to 3 different high schools. I know for a fact and least a couple of kids were done like her. One who had Trig/Calc A freshman year took Calc AB sophomore year.
In her case she is not going to be any kind of STEM major in college. I do understand the logic for identifying kids math skills in grade school. I get the junior high school too. High school not so much.
A side note. She is on the senior math team. She enjoys it. I think its because it’s her choice.
Not at all! The recommendation is generally made for two reasons. One, the college level of Calc is often far deeper than the high school level coupled with the fact that many high school Calc teachers can be less than stellar. Two, Calc is often a difficult math course. When a student gets to see it twice, they understand it better. This is important when they are going into a math heavy major or really want the A like for pre-meds.
It’s common advice I give students in those situations. If they really feel they know the math I suggest they ask their college math department for either a previous final or their placement test then make their decision.
It has 0 to do with when they started Alg. Rushing through Pre Calc is likely to cause a bigger problem. A student doing Pre Calc in CC isn’t likely heading into a math heavy field. Many are doing that twice because it was a tough course in high school so are reviewing. Some just want the math credit.
No extra funding needed really - the HS as a whole already has all sort of math levels to begin with. By allowing kids taking math higher or lower than their peers will ensure they are placed in the RIGHT level. This just means that, say a freshman or sophomore can sit in the same math class as their upper class-men and vices versa.
First, there is no average math student. I had a terrible math preparation in middle school which slowed down by math and science learning in high school ( and may have impacted college major choices). My kids were advanced in math from a very early age. They were bored to tears for about 9 years ( K-8). Even the “honors” courses didn’t help as parents pushed so their average kids could get in for the prestige/not fall behind, etc.
Some kids are focused in middle school and can do algebra, calculus etc. Some other kids have good innate math skills but don’t have the focus until high school.
There should be multiple paths to get kids where they want to go.
I am not a fan of sending middle school kids to a high school/college to take classes. Silly and emotionally awkward.
My kids are not in the normal math pool but they have been math kids pretty much since birth. Skipping grades wasn’t effective. The only thing that really works is letting the kids work on their own level. It’s a shame there is status associated with age and level.
The real problem isn’t the math progression, it’s the parents who want to chose the path rather than the kid. There are early bloomers and late bloomers and all can reach their math potential.
Also. not many schools have programs that reach the bottom 1/10 and top 1/10th in math. As a result kids often drop math.
As others have said, kids are ready for higher levels of math at different ages. I agree that the schools need to quit looking at which grade someone is in to see if they can take Trig, Calc, etc. Instead base it on a tough assessment test and if they are ready and the class is available then let the kid take it. Otherwise it is torture for some of the kids to sit through material they have known for some time.
23. When my daughter was in 8th grade she and her class of 14 were picked up and bused to 1st period Algebra 2 class at the HS. There was 2-3 buses that picked them up (mini k-8 buses) at home. The closest kid of the 14 lived a mile away dropped them off at the high school and them brought them all back to the jr high. The high school provided a teacher and a counselor. it wasn't feasible to put them in a regular Algebra 2 class in 8th grade.
My point was it wasn’t free.
In our school pre-calc and trig usually covers a fair amount of the Calculus curriculum. The year my younger (less mathy) son took it they took a sample Calc AB exam for one of their final tests. (In June not May sadly!) Needless to say, I think everyone in that class went straight to BC Calc.
I would like to see Algebra in 8th grade available to about 1/3 of the kids maybe more, which our school did without seeing any drop in performance from their previous practice of only have about 1/10th of the kids take it. I’d also like schools not fight those kids who are begging for even faster acceleration. My older son carpooled to the high school with a handful of other kids when he was in middle school. They didn’t create a special class just for middle schoolers.
Finally I’m okay with more flexibility in high school - but I don’t see slowing kids down who are ready earlier which this system seems to do.
“However, many high school have only the two year calculus sequence, not a one year calculus BC course after precalculus.“
Our HS’s advanced track after Geometry is Alg 2/Trig then Calc AB then Calc BC (and almost no one jumps straight to BC from Alg 2/Trig, I think 1 student in the last five years). Not a three year pre-Calc/AB/BC sequence.
So lots of work for the jump to AB then BC is a relatively easy course for talented students with time to go into more depth and revise/reinforce the AB course (and for some students to do BC in parallel with Phys C).
I don’t think that is intrinsically worse than pre-Calc followed by BC, instead it probably gives a better grounding for STEM in college (although I’m sure some kids like the extra weighted GPA grade too).
MVC is offered in 12th grade but you have to have done geometry in 8th grade or in the summer before 9th grade (which is offered as a 6 week intensive course for incoming students) in order to get that far.
I can’t understand an advanced track that has Calc AB followed by BC. Its gives extra weighting for a semester you already took.
Agree. My kids HS only teaches Calc BC. It is a double credit class that you take everyday while most other class are taught on an every other day block.
Our school has students choose AB or BC - or take Calc as DE or just Calc with no potential for college credit. They aren’t consecutive offerings. Very few choose BC.
That doesn’t suggest that at all. First and foremost, school curriculum is designed for the teachers & faculty; the students needs are a distant second.
Need to remember that not all schools can find good Calc teachers. MANY kids that take Calc AB and/or Calc BC need to take it again in college.
The CA system puts a lot into one year with Alg2/Precalc/Trig and prep for Calc BC.
In NJ most 8th graders take Algebra 1, then 9th Geometry, 10th Alg 2, 11th Pre-Calc and 12th AP Calc AB or BC or AP Stats (AP Stats can also be taken with Pre-Calc in 11th).
In FL, the top 8th graders took Geometry in 9th, then followed the same above.
IMO there is nothing wrong with taking AP Calc AB, then AP Calc BC – if doing well, then it is working and good preparation for Calc 3 in college (or base to repeat Calc 1 or 2 in college, depending on proficiency).
When I went to high school, there was just precalculus followed by calculus BC (no AB, but they added an AB option shortly thereafter). A little less than 10% of the students overall (but about a third of those who would go on to four year colleges) were in the +1 track to take calculus BC. +2 track students were uncommon, perhaps one every few years, and such a student was expected to be a top math student who found calculus BC to be an easy A (and 5). Calculus BC was not a double period class.
Seems like the double period calculus course is yet more evidence of inappropriate overacceleration (probably due to parental pushing) of those who may be ok or somewhat good in math, rather than good enough for that level of acceleration to be “correct” for them.
Once again, I am not referring to the top students who forge ahead on their own, pulling their parents along for the ride. That described +2 students when I was in high school, but probably not most +2 students today.
The two year AB-BC sequence requires more calculus-capable teachers than doing calculus BC in one year. So a high school with a limited number of calculus-capable teachers should want to do calculus BC in one year instead of a two year sequence.
In our school district, the honors class 8th graders take Algebra 1 which counts as a HS class and appears on the transcript. 9th grade is Geometry (where my D23 is now), 10th grade is generally Algebra2/Trig, 11th Precalc and 12th Calc AB for most with a few kids taking BC as an add-on during another period during the second half of the year.
AP Calc AB was the highest level of math offered at my D’s HS. There were no multivariable, linear alg, diffy q options. That seemed to be the norm where we lived in OH. Many of D’s friends at Purdue didn’t even have that as an option.
Wondering what percentage of US schools offer beyond AP calc in HS?
Probably about half of US high schools offer calculus (not even beyond), but that includes small schools of low performing students (continuation or reform schools, juvenile hall schools). Probably a somewhat higher percentage of students are in a calculus offering high school, but the percentage is lower in rural areas.