What do you think about St. John's college?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm referring to the St. John's College with the great books program. I'm looking at it and it seems pretty cool. The only problems is that the degree is not specialized at all and the job prospects seem dim. What excites me about the college is that it encourages and promotes critical thinking skills. In terms of content, I know what I want to study (Russian affairs) and I think that I can learn it on my own. The biggest problem is persuading my parents because the tuition is about 45k and as an international student I don't qualify for fin aid :(</p>

<p>The board for the college is dead so I thought I'll post this question here. Do you think its a good deal at all?</p>

2

<p>If you know what you want to study, I don't think St. John's is a good fit. If you like the idea of Great Books as a compulsory part of the curriculum but want to study your own major, look into:</p>

<p>Reed
Columbia
Chicago
Whitman
Scripps (women's college)
maybe Notre Dame? (I don't know how their Liberal Studies program works)</p>

3

<p>I should clarify. I want to study Russian because it is a subject unavailable in my own country. However, I could say that I am interested in all subjects. I even have a slight fondness for maths despite being quite bad at it! Gah, I am already trying to justify why I want to go there... In any case, does anyone (hopefully Johnnies) know what are the job prospects for Johnnies with just the undergrad degree?</p>

4

<p>I used to work with someone who was a manager at a software development company who went to St. John's as an undergrad.</p>

<p>Something you might ask yourself is what the employment prospects of someone with an undergrad degree in Russian studies from another school are. Is it generally the case that people who look for jobs in a field related to that course of study get graduate degrees first?</p>

1 Like
5

<p>what state</p>

6

<p>Santa Fe, New Mexico. I already come from a country surrounded by sea. Being surrounded by mountains would be nice.</p>

<p>Transferring would probably be hard since the degree would allow to major in probably classics or literature. On a positive note, I noticed Harvard 2+2 program is for undergraduates :) yes I know it will be incredibly competitive but there is always hope!</p>

7

<p>Well, you hit the nail on the head in your first post. If you want a liberal arts education and want to go to grad school, St. John's may be for you. If you have a solid idea what you want to study (and analyzing books isn't it) and/or you'll be looking for a job right out of undergrad... it's not the best idea.
Of course, other schools (especially liberal arts schools) offer core curriculums which combine the two. Also, if you ARE interested in St. John's, Shimer College in northern Illinois offers a similar program and may be worth a look.
With your particular case... well, if you're positive you want to major in Russian as an undergrad, look for schools with Russian majors- St. John's wouldn't be a good fit.</p>

8

<p>Many universities have an honors college that focuses on great books/ideas/western civilization and you could also major in Russian language as well. University of Tulsa comes to mind.</p>

<p>What are your statistics?
What country are you coming from? You may want to find a college with many international students, perhaps some from your own country as well, so you would be more comfortable there.</p>

9

<p>Add Colorado College, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame and U Miami (OH).
There are about 200 Universities that have Russian studies/language. Depends how far away from large bodies of water you want and how much great books.
List with locations:
American Military University Charles Town, West Virginia
American University Washington, District of Columbia
Amherst College Amherst, Massachusetts
Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona
Bard College Annandale-on-Hudson, New York
Barnard College New York, New York
Bates College Lewiston, Maine
Baylor University Waco, Texas
Beloit College Beloit, Wisconsin
Boston College Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts
Boston University Boston, Massachusetts
Bowdoin College Brunswick, Maine
Bowling Green State University Bowling Green, Ohio
Brandeis University Waltham, Massachusetts
Brigham Young University Provo, Utah
Bryn Mawr College Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania
Bucknell University Lewisburg, Pennsylvania
California University of Pennsylvania California, Pennsylvania
Carleton College Northfield, Minnesota
Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Central Washington University Ellensburg, Washington
City University of New York: Brooklyn College Brooklyn, New York
City University of New York: Hunter College New York, New York
City University of New York: Queens College Flushing, New York
Claremont McKenna College Claremont, California
Colby College Waterville, Maine
Colgate University Hamilton, New York
College of the Holy Cross Worcester, Massachusetts
College of William and Mary Williamsburg, Virginia
College of Wooster Wooster, Ohio
Colorado College Colorado Springs, Colorado
Columbia University New York, New York
Columbia University: School of General Studies New York, New York
Concordia College: Moorhead Moorhead, Minnesota
Cornell College Mount Vernon, Iowa
Cornell University Ithaca, New York
Dartmouth College Hanover, New Hampshire
DePauw University Greencastle, Indiana
Dickinson College Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Duke University Durham, North Carolina
Emory University Atlanta, Georgia
Ferrum College Ferrum, Virginia
Florida State University Tallahassee, Florida
Fordham University Bronx, New York
George Mason University Fairfax, Virginia
George Washington University Washington, District of Columbia
Georgetown University Washington, District of Columbia
Goucher College Baltimore, Maryland
Grand Valley State University Allendale, Michigan
Grinnell College Grinnell, Iowa
Gustavus Adolphus College St. Peter, Minnesota
Hamilton College Clinton, New York
Haverford College Haverford, Pennsylvania
Hobart and William Smith Colleges Geneva, New York
Hofstra University Hempstead, New York
Howard University Washington, District of Columbia
Idaho State University Pocatello, Idaho
Iowa State University Ames, Iowa
Juniata College Huntingdon, Pennsylvania
Kent State University Kent, Ohio
Kenyon College Gambier, Ohio
Kutztown University of Pennsylvania Kutztown, Pennsylvania
La Salle University Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Lafayette College Easton, Pennsylvania
Lawrence University Appleton, Wisconsin
Lehigh University Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Macalester College St. Paul, Minnesota
Marlboro College Marlboro, Vermont
McGill University Montreal, Canada
Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
Miami University: Oxford Campus Oxford, Ohio
Michigan State University East Lansing, Michigan
Middlebury College Middlebury, Vermont
Mount Holyoke College South Hadley, Massachusetts
Muhlenberg College Allentown, Pennsylvania
New College of Florida Sarasota, Florida
New York University New York, New York
Northern Illinois University DeKalb, Illinois
Oberlin College Oberlin, Ohio
Ohio State University: Columbus Campus Columbus, Ohio
Ohio University Athens, Ohio
Oklahoma State University Stillwater, Oklahoma
Ouachita Baptist University Arkadelphia, Arkansas
Penn State Abington Abington, Pennsylvania
Penn State Altoona Altoona, Pennsylvania
Penn State Beaver Monaca, Pennsylvania
Penn State Berks Reading, Pennsylvania
Penn State Brandywine Media, Pennsylvania
Penn State Dubois DuBois, Pennsylvania
Penn State Erie, The Behrend College Erie, Pennsylvania
Penn State Fayette, The Eberly Campus Uniontown, Pennsylvania
Penn State Greater Allegheny McKeesport, Pennsylvania
Penn State Hazleton Hazleton, Pennsylvania
Penn State Lehigh Valley Fogelsville, Pennsylvania
Penn State Mont Alto Mont Alto, Pennsylvania
Penn State New Kensington New Kensington, Pennsylvania
Penn State Schuylkill Schuylkill Haven, Pennsylvania
Penn State Shenango Sharon, Pennsylvania
Penn State University Park University Park, Pennsylvania
Penn State Wilkes-Barre Lehman, Pennsylvania
Penn State Worthington Scranton Dunmore, Pennsylvania
Penn State York York, Pennsylvania
Pitzer College Claremont, California
Pomona College Claremont, California
Portland State University Portland, Oregon
Purdue University West Lafayette, Indiana
Reed College Portland, Oregon
Rhodes College Memphis, Tennessee
Rider University Lawrenceville, New Jersey
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey: New Brunswick/Piscataway Campus Piscataway, New Jersey
Saint Louis University Saint Louis, Missouri
San Diego State University San Diego, California
Scripps College Claremont, California
Seattle Pacific University Seattle, Washington
Smith College Northampton, Massachusetts
Southern Illinois University Carbondale Carbondale, Illinois
Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas
St. Olaf College Northfield, Minnesota
State University of New York at Albany Albany, New York
State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, New York
Stetson University DeLand, Florida
Swarthmore College Swarthmore, Pennsylvania
Syracuse University Syracuse, New York
Temple University Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Texas A&M University College Station, Texas
Texas State University: San Marcos San Marcos, Texas
Texas Tech University Lubbock, Texas
Trinity College Hartford, Connecticut
Trinity University San Antonio, Texas
Truman State University Kirksville, Missouri
Tufts University Medford, Massachusetts
Tulane University New Orleans, Louisiana
United States Military Academy West Point, New York
University of Alaska Anchorage Anchorage, Alaska
University of Alaska Fairbanks Fairbanks, Alaska
University of Arizona Tucson, Arizona
University of British Columbia Vancouver, Canada
University of California: Davis Davis, California
University of California: Irvine Irvine, California
University of California: Los Angeles Los Angeles, California
University of California: Riverside Riverside, California
University of California: San Diego La Jolla, California
University of California: Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, California
University of Chicago Chicago, Illinois
University of Colorado at Boulder Boulder, Colorado
University of Delaware Newark, Delaware
University of Denver Denver, Colorado
University of Florida Gainesville, Florida
University of Georgia Athens, Georgia
University of Hawaii at Manoa Honolulu, Hawaii
University of Houston Houston, Texas
University of Illinois at Chicago Chicago, Illinois
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Champaign, Illinois
University of Iowa Iowa City, Iowa
University of Kansas Lawrence, Kansas
University of Kentucky Lexington, Kentucky
University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Canada
University of Maryland: College Park College Park, Maryland
University of Massachusetts Amherst Amherst, Massachusetts
University of Massachusetts Boston Boston, Massachusetts
University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan
University of Minnesota: Twin Cities Minneapolis, Minnesota
University of Missouri: Columbia Columbia, Missouri
University of Montana Missoula, Montana
University of Nebraska - Lincoln Lincoln, Nebraska
University of New Hampshire Durham, New Hampshire
University of New Mexico Albuquerque, New Mexico
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, North Carolina
University of Northern Iowa Cedar Falls, Iowa
University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, Indiana
University of Oklahoma Norman, Oklahoma
University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon
University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
University of Richmond Richmond, Virginia
University of Rochester Rochester, New York
University of South Carolina Columbia, South Carolina
University of South Florida Tampa, Florida
University of Southern California Los Angeles, California
University of Southern Maine Gorham, Maine
University of Tennessee: Knoxville Knoxville, Tennessee
University of Texas at Arlington Arlington, Texas
University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas
University of the South Sewanee, Tennessee
University of Toronto Toronto, Canada
University of Tulsa Tulsa, Oklahoma
University of Utah Salt Lake City, Utah
University of Vermont Burlington, Vermont
University of Washington Seattle, Washington
University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, Wisconsin
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Milwaukee, Wisconsin
University of Wyoming Laramie, Wyoming
Vanderbilt University Nashville, Tennessee
Vassar College Poughkeepsie, New York
Wake Forest University Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia
Washington State University Pullman, Washington
Wellesley College Wellesley, Massachusetts
Wesleyan University Middletown, Connecticut
West Chester University of Pennsylvania West Chester, Pennsylvania
Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts
Williams College Williamstown, Massachusetts
Wittenberg University Springfield, Ohio
Yale University New Haven, Connecticut</p>

10

<p>Stats are
SATs: CR 750 math 650 writing 590 = 1950
II: Lit 720 Math II 620</p>

<p>GPA horribly low :( I take the A levels system.</p>

<p>Thanks for your help mrego! I'll look into some of these colleges!</p>

11

<p>One thing to consider: I really, really liked the idea of St. John's College, but I like many was persuaded simply by the literature the college puts out. </p>

<p>I would suggest a careful reading of the arguments put forth on the website The</a> Unexamined Curriculum. If, after reading, you still feel as though St. John's will provide the best education for you, then you are truly a St. John's student in spirit. However, it raises some very interesting points and is very well-written. </p>

<p>That's just my warning. If you still like the school after reading that, then you really would enjoy the education there.</p>

12

<p>if you plan on staying in the US, even though most people are too stupid to have ever heard the name of St. John's (most people in the US dont have a clue about any LACs), I don't think prospects for jobs are too dim because I've heard the St. John's graduates are really powerful and love to help johnnies out.</p>

<p>Definitely not a school I could go to (since I really love languages and linguistics), but jeez, the curriculum is the coolest thing I've ever heard of.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
I'm referring to the St. John's College with the great books program. I'm looking at it and it seems pretty cool. The only problems is that the degree is not specialized at all and the job prospects seem dim. What excites me about the college is that it encourages and promotes critical thinking skills. In terms of content, I know what I want to study (Russian affairs) and I think that I can learn it on my own.

[/quote]
On the one hand, you have a collection of classic books. On the other, you have Russian and international relations. Which do you think would be easier to pick up on your own?</p>

<p>Personally, I've never been a big fan of St. John's or its curriculum. The curriculum is relatively narrow, and as someone studying Classics and English Lit, I'm not overly impressed by the books they do cover. In any case, any respectable college will help you develop critical thinking skills.</p>

14

<p>Russian Studies, or any other area studies program, should be evaluated very carefully. Any university can string a few professors together in a small office and name it The XXX Center for Russian Studies. That doesn't mean that the school offers the resources and quality of a true, comprehensive Russian studies center.</p>

<p>Generally the gold standard for such programs are those designated as Title VI "Comprehensive National Resource Centers." This is a cold war program designed to recognize and fund the top dozen or so area studies centers in each field. These are the programs that are going to have a wide breadth of nationally respected faculty, edit the major journals in the field and offer significant contacts within government and academia after graduation. In the Great Lakes region, I know that Michigan, Ohio State and Indiana have traditionally held long time Title VI status. That doesn't necessarily mean that going to Ohio State or Indiana will be a better overall experience than going to Chicago. It just means that those two schools will offer a greater breadth and depth of Russian and East European faculty and resources.</p>

15

<p>I would seriously look again at Shimer College, in Chicago. After you take some basics, you can work with professors to design classes that fit your interests. Upperclassman can spend a semester or year in Oxford, working one-on-one with Oxford professors (!) in classes that, again, you design. I know people studying Russian lit or</p>

<p>Plus, we're a Great Books school. We're great with classic books but we're not pretentious the way St Johns is. Don't get me wrong, I respect St Johns. But we read a wider selection, we have more options for independent study, and we can take any classes IIT or VanderCook offer.</p>

16

<p>The link provided in post #11 refers one to an overly verbose, poorly written diatribe that isn't worth the time that it takes to read the material. Pure silliness designed to malign a well respected program of study at the two fully accredited St. John's campuses.</p>

17

<p>St. John's College (NM)</p>

<p>Academics</p>

<p>"The “mind-blowing,” all-mandatory curriculum at “incredibly small” St. John’s College in Santa Fe, New Mexico, includes “copious amounts” of philosophy, literature, language, math, and science. Students “read only primary texts as opposed to textbooks.” “There are no majors.” There are no lectures. “Every class is a discussion.” There are few tests. Grades are based almost exclusively on papers. While students love the academic experience, they caution that it is full of “relentless intellectual duress.” “The program is very difficult and you get kicked out if you can’t keep up,” warns a senior. “You have to be prepared to work hard without being rewarded with simple answers.” Professors at St. John’s are called tutors “because they are not professing anything.” Instead, they guide students through a few thousand years of Western thought, starting with ancient Greece and ending in modern times, and allow you “to form your own opinions.” Some faculty members “are terrible” but most are “insightful, brilliant, and dedicated.” Virtually all of them are “absurdly accessible” as well. “Students meet with the dean all the time.” However, when difficulties arise, the administration sometimes causes “an ordeal far out of proportion to the problem.” “Financial aid is scarce,” too. Other complaints include the “often less modern” condition of the campus. There are some “shabby” classrooms, and the Internet connection “needs to be upgraded by an order of magnitude.”</p>

<p>Student Body</p>

<p>"“This is a school for super geeks.” Everyone is a “voracious reader” and “kind of neurotic.” “For many students, St. John’s is a funny interlude—a bizarre and startlingly wonderful place to reflect on the world around them and think about themselves and how they want to live their own lives.” “People here tend to have considered the big questions,” suggests a senior. “How can I be a good person? Why does the world work the way it does?” Some students suffer from “academic haughtiness.” “Johnnies tend to have an underlying pretension regarding their role in the world as philosophers and avant-garde thinkers and writers.” A lot of people smoke cigarettes, too. “If you’re not a smoker before you come here, you will be when you leave.” “The population is not diverse ethnically but it is tolerant politically, religiously, and socially.” There are “churchgoing Christians and radical atheists.” “Every St. John’s student is atypical in one way or another.” “Although they might not fit in elsewhere, they feel quite comfortable at St. John’s.” “People here go after what they want,” agrees a sophomore, “whether it’s getting too stoned to think or finding a job as a ranch hand in the middle of nowhere.”</p>

<p>&lt;/p>

18

<p>pierre, I really wish you would stop this business of typing in lengthy entries from The Princeton Review's guidebook.</p>

19

<p>I'm a current Johnnie.
One of the brochures that the school puts out is one which shows in great detail the multitude of jobs that SJC grads have gone on to hold.</p>

<p>Entrepreneurs, Doctors, Lawyers, Filmmakers, Teachers-- you name it, an alum has done it.</p>

<p>In terms of Russian Studies....
If you think you can/would study the content on your own, that's one thing.
If you think you can/would study that classics on your own, that's one thing. </p>

<p>I think there's something really important about studying with other people who are also in love with learning, wherever that may end up being for you. </p>

<p>People here are interesting, and interested in all kinds of things.
I can't tell you where to come.
All I can do is offer myself as a possible resource if you have any more questions.</p>

20

<p>Before you jump into St. John's in Annapolis be sure to read this book: </p>

<p>Amazon.com:</a> A Great Idea at the Time: The Rise, Fall, and Curious Afterlife of the Great Books: Alex Beam: Books</p>

<p>A Great Idea at the Time: The Rise, Fall, and Curious Afterlife of the Great Books</p>

<p>You will change your mind. At St. John's, we're talking here about the obsession of University of Chicago president Robert Hutchins and his comical sidekick Mortimer Adler. If you want to read 50 volumes of unillustrated, poorly translated, white slabbed pages by Dead White Men (there were no Black writers in the first set) taken completely out of historical context, or you want to study Ptolemaic astro mechanics based on an obsolete Earth-centric model (ouch!), or perform obscure Newtonian optical experiments that have no relevance to the modern science, the St. John's is the place for you.</p>

<p>Read Beam. Then make up your mind.</p>