@Data10 - you start talking standard deviations, you’ll lose the audience.
"All Admits
Math SAT +/- 1 SD range: -0.07 to +1.07 (75th percentile score ~= 0.88)
Verbal SAT +/- 1 SD range: +0.14 to +1.12 (75th percentile score ~= 0.96)
Unhooked White Admits
Math SAT +/- 1 SD range: +0.06 to +1.06 (~74% of unhooked admits below 75th percentile)"
Maybe it’s the wine getting to me, but what does this mean, unhooked math, hooked,SD, the people attending a panel are going to think you’re talking more to make yourself look good rather than to educate the audience.
Explain to a ten year old your conclusions, then maybe you can get through to an audience.
I think this applies to ED as well. If your student applies ED, have them keep plugging away on their other applications. An ED rejection or deferral can take the wind out of their sails, and it is great to have some applications ready to go regardless of the outcome of early applications. Go into ED or SCEA or REA with the assumption that the student may very well not get in, and prepare the other apps accordingly.
Also… don’t plan big holiday trips senior year winter break. Your kid may very well be completing applications for a good portion of break.
I would be really clear about the low reality of getting into any one specific top school even with tippy top scores.
My son has a friend who got rejected ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, NMSF, top GPA (not sure of unweighted, but based on weighted and class rank, I would guess it’s a 4.00), class officer, athlete, etc.
Truly an exceptional young man in every way and he was denied. I think people need to understand that even perfect test scores won’t you in, esp. with no hooks.
If the older kid(s) attends, even with a significant scholarship (merit and/or FAid, the younger kid(s) may well desire to attend as well, even if they are offered $0. Prepare for such a conversation.
@chardonMN
My D was asked for a graded paper to apply to the Honors College at Western WA (good school but not like the schools being discussed in this thread).
What I learned: each elite college is different, so the applicant should focus on one or two that fits the applicant and really research and work on few applications.
Also, many elite students don’t have to and don’t go to elite colleges for various reasons, and not all students admitted to elite colleges are elite students.
One common denominator of elite colleges are they rank the highest in endowment money.
Figure out how a 5th year of college will be paid for as well. There are quite a few kids who need more than 4 years and your student may be among them. If that money isn’t needed for school it will surely be useful for other purposes—helping with security deposit, 1st/last month’s rent, moving, work clothes, etc.
Figure out early how much the parents can realistically provide each year toward the student’s education and share that info early (freshman/sophomore year of HS) so that the student builds his/her college list with that and NPC in mind.
Many elite colleges offer little or no merit aid—if merit aid is desired/needed, broaden your search and be sure to search for Us likely to award merit for students with the given GPA, test scores, ECs.
Hope is not a plan, nor is borrowing the entire cost of an elite education.
There are plenty of kids at elite schools without a “hook”.
Be sincere. Don’t try to “pad” an application with things because you think it will get your kid accepted. For example, if your kid likes crew, fine…but don’t force them to do an EC just for college application purposes.
Drop “elite” but also drop “Dream school”.
I thin I would emphasize that there are 3000 or so colleges in this country, and the top 20 are excellent schools. BUT that doesn’t mean there aren’t other colleges where a student will get an excellent education. Aim for the best, but make sure you have good options in the application list.
My opinion…every student should apply to one rolling or early action college. And preferably a sure thing. The first acceptance is very sweet!
@theloniusmonk - I agree that some data suggests that students with higher GPAs and test scores are admitted in greater numbers. But I also agree with the former MIT admissions officer who explained that this is showing correlation not causation. The type of student who the college is looking for because of certain traits will also be the type that often has high GPA and test scores. IOW, if the college is looking for students that are brilliant, resilient, curious, creative - many of those types will be the types that get high GPAs and test scores so will have a good chance of admissions. But it isn’t the high GPA and test scores that determines admission past a certain GPA and score thresh hold, it’s the characteristics. And students who show the characteristics a selective college seeks will be admitted (as long as they have that thresh hold GPA and scores that show they can handle the work) before students with perfect GPA and scores who haven’t shown - through essays, ECs, LoRs - those characteristics.
Maybe talk about how it is not about getting in, but the experience at the school itself.
A school like Harvard has large lecture classes with TF’s. Some thrive with that, some don’t. The experience is personalized once in a department as a major, at least for smaller departments.
The experience of being surrounded by peers who are intelligent and talented, at a high level, can be difficult for self-confidence for some. For others, it is inspiring.
If a student has an interesting talent or activity, try to convey that and use letters of recommendation beyond the two academic ones required (via a supplement).
Finally, as I wrote before, while “dreams” of attending need to be discouraged for some, there are other students who may not understand either that they should apply, or that they could get financial aid, and they need to be encouraged. These schools are recruiting students from low income and rural areas, for instance. Socioeconomic diversity is important for top schools who want to make a difference in society at large.
I keep reading that the personal characteristics are so important for holistic admissions. Kids really need to figure out how to show that in their apps. The AOs only have the application to judge them by as it seems that even alumni interviews don’t pull much weight and most AOs don’t do interviews themselves.
So, that essay is important and the LORs are very important. I’m not saying that kids should pretend to be someone who they are not in their high school classes but, by junior year, it is certainly time to be curious in class and make a big effort. And get to know your teachers. I think so many kids we know are nose to the grindstone with academics and their ECs but maybe lack a personal touch in class and don’t stand out past their good grades and teachers don’t have anything personal to say about them in their recs.
And, when one writes their essays, think about what characteristics each school is looking for and make sure the essay covers whatever isn’t showing anywhere else in the app. I watched a Bowdoin video the other day and the head of admissions showed a pie chart that had just two parts. One half was academics and the other half was “heart”. That essay (or the LORs or both) had better show some heart.
One former admissions officer at MIT who was quite gung-ho on looking beyond the objective characteristics of an applicant was Marilee Jones, who resigned after it was discovered that she had fabricated at least one item on her resume, changing the school of her undergraduate degree from St. Mary’s to Rensselaer. I would have liked to know this ahead of time, prior to her resignation, not for our family applicants but for friends.
The MIT admissions criteria were rather distorted in an unpredictable way at that time. For example, including in an essay that you liked to pop popcorn and watch movies with friends was good, and saying that you liked to solve differential equations with friends was bad.
Under Stu Schmill, the operation of MIT admissions has improved in my view, but it is a bit different from a “normal” top college. From the admissions blogs, it looks to me as if there is still nothing a student can do, in school or out, that is “enough” to get admitted to MIT. To me, this does not make sense for a college that focuses on engineering and science. It has led to jokes of CC of the type, “What if I win the Nobel Prize in high school? Nobel Prize enough?”
I think it’s helpful for high school freshmen to look at college applications from about five different universities to get a feel for what will be asked of them, from letters of rec to sample papers to lists of various activities to test scores. All of this seems obvious to us, but to a high school freshman, it’s new. I grew up as a First Generation student, and I swear I didn’t even know I had to take an ACT until my junior year of high school. That sucked–I would’ve tried harder to learn those first two years, if I’d known I’d have to demonstrate that learning. Also make sure that all the students know there’s a place for them where they’ll have an awesome time and do well, whether it’s an “elite” school or not. Great idea, this thread!