<p>
Who knows? The coach might spoil his natural running style.</p>
<p>oldfort “If that same athlete had a world class coach and facility, could that athlete have gone further?”</p>
<p>Yes. But if we are comparing “elite” schools and state universities a better analogy might be name brand drug versus generics. The teachers aren’t better and the facilities are sometimes worse.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you take a vote from people who have participated in this thread. I would think the people agreeing with your statement will be in the minority. The admission rate of H Vs Miami (M) speaks for the general population.</p>
<p>What is your base for making such a statement? Did you or your D experience H and what it offer to their top students? How many M student get into H med school?</p>
<p>Had your D got into H and M in UG and Med, and she picked M over H, then you could say it is 100% her chioce to go to M. Am I being fair here?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, that’s certainly hard data from a scientific poll of disinterested parties! Point proven, case over, decision to the defense.</p>
<p>Chris-</p>
<p>Of course there ar students at top schools who dont take advantage of all that is available. But that is true everywhere, so its a moot point, really.</p>
<p>
Students who are going to public schools are not doing it on their own, so maybe the analogy is not appropriate.
I am not a pharmacist, so I don’t know the difference between name brand drug versus generics, so I don’t know if that’s the right analogy. As far as elite schools’ teachers and familities are not better, I do not agree. I see my kid’s school are still building and putting in state of the art equipments, and I see many public schools that just couldn’t afford.</p>
<p>Miami:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No one ever said you were guaranteed success with an Ivy degree or destined for failure without one. Nevertheless, your daughter’s college is unable to attract enough matriculating applicants of the highest caliber to do so without merit awards. It suits the institutional needs to attract some kids with money to get those medical school spots or become tops in their fields and carry the Miami Ohio name with them. Especially on a thread about college affordability, taking the free option is perfectly valid and no one, certainly not me, has any issue with a parent/student going that way. Most of the top ranked schools are so deep with similar talent of all sorts that they do not need to offer merit aid. There your top student may be a little fish in a big pond which is a different experience altogether. This would not work for some even if money was not a concern and taking the “honors college” route works best and may have the bonus of merit money.</p>
<p>Many kids going to these pricy elite schools have been “banging it out of the ball park” for years academically while having the reserve to have an exhausting number of ECs on the side. Being surrounded by 1000+ kids like that creates a community far beyond the class room that can not be matched if your kid is hand selected for a top merit college honors at a third tier school. Is that difference worth mortgaging your future in debt? - almost certainly not. Is there value there if it is “affordable”? I strongly believe the answer is “yes”. For all but the top 1/2%, that is going to require some economic choices when they turn down a free or lesser expensive option.</p>
<p>Everyday we are faced with this same question of why pay for something when there is a free or lesser expensive option available. It is essential to any question of value and affordability. I consider myself a value guy who buys office supplies from Ebay and has a continuous 20 year subscription to Consumer Reports. I was “gifted” the opportunity to obtain one of those pricey degrees by my parents and I am thankful I can do the same for my kid while penny pinching elsewhere. I guess you think me the fool but I am in very good company.</p>
<p>“MiamiDAP: You seem to be assuming that state public with merit award will always be less expensive than private option.”
-Not at all. We had very wide variety of awards. Merit awards was not criteria #1 anyway. One private also UG gave D. almost full tuition ($5k was balance to pay, whihc is really almost nothing). Nope, got to research, even state schools in the same state award very different amounts to the same student. D. choose her UG based on many other criteria well ahead of Merit award criteria. It just happened that this UG also gave her the most, which was fullt tuition and kept increasing over 4 years. One other gave her the same, the rest of state publics gave much less and much less than one private that she applied.<br>
However, it is correct to assume that applicant of Ivy caliber will get very close to full tuition at many places. Our experience as well as experience of many others (currently one guy is entering JHU on full tuition Merit award) supports my statement.
On your other note, couple colleges that D. has applied I would call “middle ground” with Honors programs filled with primarily valedictorians (or somewhere close). At least D’s Honors with only 200 spots was mostly filled with valedictorians from various public/private HSs, even OOS. I imagine that they were attracted by nice Merit packages.
General statements are not that applicable. You have to take into consideration specific applicant and specific colleges, including their Honors programs and many other factors. Ranking is misleading as good part of it is based on ability to get grant money for research. Than you are dealing with profs whose primary focus is not students in his classes, but his research, not very good situation to be.
Look closer what are you getting for your money. UG name might be good enough for some and there is nothing wrong with that, but it might not be enough for others for what they are required to pay there.
This is my opinion in regard to affordability, which does not have to be shared by everybody else, as we all have different backgrounds and experiences.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So if there’s an educational advantage - I assume that’s what you’re arguing - why doesn’t the data show it?</p>
<p>Here’s a thought on the original topic of what it means to be able to afford something. I was considering whether I could “afford” to buy myself a $6,000 Rolex watch. I suppose I could. But what I couldn’t afford to do is to match the luxuriousness of that watch across my whole lifestyle–i.e., buying the equivalent clothes, furniture, cars, vacations, etc. Is that germane to the discussion of what you can “afford” in terms of an education? I think it is–if the education would cause too much degradation in other elements of your lifestyle, you can’t afford it. On the other hand, it’s a one-time expense (like a house), so you would consider its value over a long period of time.</p>
<p>“However, it is correct to assume that applicant of Ivy caliber will get very close to full tuition at many places.”</p>
<hr>
<p>Very close to full tuition might leave 10k remaining for R&B plus remaining tuition and other expenses. For that a kid could theoretically live at home and attend state flagship or attend Stanford tuition free with R&B on a sliding scale if their income fell into the right band. There are many, many ways to arrive at a similar out of pocket cost and eventually a student and family will be weighing values as they see them given the choices that are before them. While I would be reluctant to pay 10k R&B to send a kid across the country to Alabama over state flagship, if that’s all I had to pay to send a kid to Stanford it would feel very affordable to me - and not just because of the name or because one can’t get a fine education at Alabama that will get them from point A to point B.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And might not. Friend of my D, with Ivy-level stats, got a full ride plus a $6,000 research stipend at Michigan State.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s no surprise, considering that less than 5% of the students at Michigan State (and maybe a lot less) have Ivy-level stats: <a href=“https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/michigan-state-university;jsessionid=2F294B430D6CD04A41C773FC1424E27A[/url]”>https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/michigan-state-university;jsessionid=2F294B430D6CD04A41C773FC1424E27A</a></p>
<p>Edited to add: on second look, it might be a bit better than that, considering that most students submit ACT, and a broader band is used for the top level of ACT.</p>
<p>“considering that less than 5% of the students at Michigan State (and maybe a lot less) have Ivy-level stats”
It does not matter what %%, we are discussing affordability for those who CAN choose between Ivy or full ride or practically any other place as they will be accepted at most.
Another consideration might be the strength and ssssselectivity of certain majors / programs / specialties at particular UG. While UG is under radar so to speak for very high caliber student, it might not be true for some programs at the same UG. Some of them might have only 10 spots (as example of the one that my D. was accepted). She was told that she was very lucky as there were very many high caliber applicants (in hundreds) to these 10 spots. Acceptance to this program was D’s first criteria, Merit award was a very nice bonus.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Great analogy!</p>