What does it take these days to get into a competitive school?

At this point, this is all speculation. The kiddo is a fourteen year old. The “stats” set out in post one are projected ones (thank you for pointing that out).

A really good private counselor will tell you how to leverage this student’s assets. I’m sure someone at your son’s private school can give you some suggestions. Surely you are not the first who wants to work with a private college counselor. Ask around.

And thank you for the update :slight_smile:

@AttorneyMother, Being able to fool adcoms doesn’t make lying (resume padding) OK in my view. I have always taught my son to not care about what people think of him, and do what he wants to do. For me to go back and tell him that he should pad his resume because adcoms like people who volunteer would be a breach of parental trust, which is why I am not keen to engage on that topic. If the colleges don’t accept him for who he is, then so be it. He will also be applying to Oxbridge.

@Garamond, If my son feels lukewarm about volunteering, he feels downright adamant about paying jobs. As it is he “earns” several thousands each year from competitions and public performances. If that is not enough, and being a busboy somehow imparts wisdom that playing in front of massive audiences at prestigious venues doesn’t, again, I guess so be it. There is simply no time for paying jobs.

@thumper1, The one key idea I got from this thread is to ask the school itself which private college counselor to engage. Thank you and @AttorneyMother for suggesting that. I do agree that it is 3 years away, but I am one to prepare early and prepare often.

@justonemom,
The tips that I would offer:

  1. Get the book How to be a high school superstar by Cal Newport
  2. Attend a HS that tends to feed into the colleges that you are looking at. This would be based on the HS’s matriculation numbers to each of the aforementioned colleges. Would have been better to do this before 9th grade.
  3. And yes, kid should consider going to these colleges as a recruited athlete.

No one is recommending resume padding. Just that doing something because it will “look good” or is “required by his private (“elite?”) school” sounds like resume padding if your S is not engaged or cares about the activity, which I believe you indicated.

For example, when we visited UCB, there was a discussion during the info session about how everyone had internships and science projects because they now believe that’s the ticket. But what about the kid who worked and distinguished himself at the local animal shelter out of love of the work. He’s going to get more notice just for being a different flavor. Not a guarantee, but better than cookie cutter.

I missed where he is also a double legacy. Surely that is your best target school.

@YoHoYoHo,

  1. I have the book. Nothing there resonated with me, knowing my son. I gave the book to my son. I will check with him if he read it.
  2. This is covered well. The private school he goes to places about 15% in HYP alone.
  3. This is where I strongly disagree. If someone gets in as a recruited athlete, then they should intend to play. Otherwise they are lying, which is not acceptable. If they do play, the demands will be such that academics will suffer, which is again not acceptable.

That said, skills don’t go away if someone doesn’t come in as a recruited athlete. So he can play if the team allows him to, but on his own terms. He shouldn’t have to make any commitments to get into a good college.

@AttorneyMother, Believe me, if my son had a love for volunteering he would push us and push us till we relented and allowed him to stop some other EC and go volunteer. The kid you mentioned worked at the local animal shelter out of love. That is not lying or resume padding, the same way when my son writes poetry or paints it is out of love and not to pad the resume. But volunteering doesn’t fit in.

But say he loves to play the piano. There are many opportunities to do that on a volunteer basis. He could play holiday songs at a senior center. Or offer to play background music for a dinner fundraiser for charity.

He could coach aspiring students at his sport…younger kids. Be a mentor.

No one is saying he should do something he doesn’t love. He should do something he loves FOR OTHERS. There is a difference.

OP- What do you want from CC posters? You are asking people what it would take to get into a competitive school, but every time someone suggested something, your response is your son will do what he wants. So why not just continue down that route? It is probably the best route anyway. Not sure what we could do for you here.

He doesn’t want to do any of that, @thumper1. I don’t know what to tell you. Also, where would the time for that come from? As it is I am cutting down ECs to make room for more sleep.

One thing he is interested in doing is making a CD of his performances and selling it online for charity. This idea came after he went to a real studio and recorded some music for the public radio. He was thrilled by that experience. Another kid his age with whom he has a routine competition with in all the state and regional competitions has been selling her CDs, so that gave him inspiration as well.

@oldfort, So far the new and actionable ideas has been to

  1. Pursue athletic recruitment
  2. Pursue volunteering/paying jobs
  3. Get a private college counselor

I think #3 is a good idea, and I am still debating #2. It has challenges though (otherwise I would have done it already, I read the admissions books as well). It’s just the #1 that I completely disagree with. So I rejected just one idea. So I am not sure that you are being fair in your assessment of my openness.

I also got a lot of jabs about how I am a poor parent, but that has nothing to do with college admissions.

If he doesn’t develop those sports skills, they will “go away” (or at least not progress).

But that’s not the main reason I’m responding.
Other than the fact that at Oxbridge (really, all English universities), isn’t possible to take courses outside of his track, it does seem as if Oxbridge may be a perfect fit for him. It will it be the faculty of the major evaluating him, and they care absolutely zero about volunteering, ECs, or foundational studies not related to his major; just how good of a scholar he will be in that major.

So I think he should study to do well in those AP tests related to his projected major (he has to get 5’s in them) and prepare to wow the faculty who will interview him.

Forget about the rest.

I personally think that volunteering is not necessary for selective admissions especially because kid is doing the HS volunteering requirement already. My D did only a small amount of volunteering and got SCEA acceptance to Yale.

A private college counselor would be good, and hire them now so that they can continue to plan the remaining years in HS.

@PurpleTitan, This is precisely why I believe unless someone is committed to turning pro in a sport, sports is a waste of time as skills will inevitably erode.

I agree that Oxbridge remains a very viable option. He does the ECs not for college admissions but because he enjoys them, so there is no loss if it is not of any use in Oxbridge admissions. After all, ECs are for fun. However, he wouldn’t have to do any volunteering which is absolutely not fun for him.

Getting 5’s in APs is easy. Wowing the faculty, though, is very hard and goes FAR beyond getting 5’s in AP. The AP curriculum is so diluted anyway. It requires real research work and while those programs exist in the USA they are very competitive to get into. We shall keep our fingers crossed.

@YoHoYoHo, Thank you! This is precisely the kind of intel I was looking for! So no sweat about volunteering beyond what the school will arrange anyway.

Wowing faculty isn’t all about the scores, of course. Faculty are usually NOT wowed by ruthless students. In fact, they (and the GC) can write recommendations that will undermine his application.

I will say…if you hire a good college counselor…plan to listen to their recommendations.

@intparent, Do you think he should throw in a few B’s just to get the ruthless reputation removed and in the process get better recommendations? Believe me, I have been asking him to let go of straight A+'s and get a few B’s in history and sciences. We have had shouting matches over this. My motivation is just to get him couple more hours of sleep every night.

@thumper1, I know that Michelle Hernandez is big on paying jobs, the more unskilled the better. Question is, is that the ethically right thing to do? Pump gas just so an adcom feels that the student identifies with the adcom’s personal background? Really, isn’t that outright lying to curry favors? I don’t know … doesn’t seem right to me.

OK, and this is why I think you’re blinkered, because I have seen how Ivy athletes (and athletes from other elite schools) have leveraged their network very effectively after graduation (even many years after graduation). Again, I’m surprised that you and your spouse didn’t see that as you both purportedly went to those schools.

Wowing the faculty probably isn’t that hard if you have the goods and you know what to do.

Did you and your spouse go to Ivies for grad school or undergrad?

Oh please. No one is saying your kid should pump gas. Where did that come from? Your kid could teach private piano lessons, or coach his sport for pay…or he could learn to be a referee…and earn money that way.

You will likely complete a written survey for a private counselor before they agree to take you as a client. They will also likely interview you.

These private counselors work with families, but if they feel that you won’t take their recommendations, you might have trouble getting one to contract with you.

So,think about that before you waste your time or anyone else’s.

Oh…and they will want input from your kid too…separate from yours. Just be prepared.

And personally, if he isn’t in to volunteering or pumping gas, just don’t do it. And no need to get B’s. I don’t think that is the right tack. Just let him keep on keeping on. Maybe force a weeks-long/months-long vacation on him where he doesn’t get to do things for a while so that he doesn’t burn out (a very real concern even if he has been like this since kindergarten; adolescence is when the hormones hit and kids become almost a different person so starting to question everything & burnout risk is very real).

Also, not to get him in to a college, but just for development, try to get him to do some team activities. All the stuff you mentioned (music, math, poetry, painting, court sport) are intensely individualistic, even solitary activities. Does he engage in any team ECs where he has to work well with others?

@PurpleTitan, UG and PG both. Thankfully, we have been able to do well at work and exceptionally well in investments based on our own talent and only our own talent, and without having to depend on others in the network. Thank goodness for meritocracy.

I do not know what the sufficient criteria is to wow Oxbridge faculty, but I suspect neither do you. It is certainly not 5’s in APs, that much I know.

I agree with the vacation suggestion. We do force a month of vacation (2 weeks times 2) on ourselves and hence the kid. As for group activites, he is in chamber groups and orchestras, a rather well known Youth Philharmonic.

@thumper1, The pumping gas came from Michelle Hernandez’s book. I found that part of the book to be ridiculously stupid. Look, if the kid could give public performances and get paid for that, he would have no problem doing it. In fact, he does it already and as I said before “earns” a few thousands every year. But he is not interested in coaching little boys and girls, in anything. That also takes up a lot of time!

Heck, I will say that. If the kid is half as insufferable and entitled as our fictional mom, I’d heartily recommend pumping gas or working the night shift at Waffle House for a summer before this snowflake melts in the real world.

Adult chamber groups aren’t individualistic, but playing in an orchestra doesn’t require working well with others and I doubt that youth chamber groups do either.

If you can’t figure out what Oxbridge faculty look for, well, there are already too many details that makes me agree with @SomeOldGuy‌ that both the mom and kid are fictional.