What does the CSS PROFILE do? Does it lower the amount of aid you get?

Paying for College
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<p>Do colleges that ask for the CSS in addition to FAFSA end up expecting you to contribute even more than the FAFSA EFC? Many of my schools that I applied to offer no merit scholarships, and only need-based aid. </p>

<p>Also, how do the FAFSA and CSS factor into the aid reward in the end? Say the FAFSA EFC for someone was $40,000 and the value was $30,000 by the institutional methodology. What would the student end up having to pay?</p>

<p>I have also seen people at my school in years past recieve pretty large awards from the schools they got into...and they were not "low-income".</p>

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<p>The FAFSA EFC is an index determining eligibility for federal aid. There is absolutely no guarantee that families will only have to pay this amount. The CSS Profile is used by colleges to determine a student’s need for institutional aid. Each college uses a different institutional methodology for determining need, so even colleges that meet full need can define your need differently. Thus, there can be wide variance on the amount colleges expect your family to contribute.</p>

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<p>This was very useful college_ruled. Thank you.</p>

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<p>If your FAFSA EFC turns out to be higher than that determined by the Institutional Method, the vast, vast majority of schools will go with the FAFSA EFC. See my post on this thread for why: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1063575-profile-contribution-less-than-fafsa.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1063575-profile-contribution-less-than-fafsa.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Momcat2…where did you hear that the school would go with the FAFSA EFC if it was higher than the Profile? I’d love to see a source for this.</p>

<p>The FAFSA EFC is used to determine federally funded need based aid. The schools MUST use that family contribution when determining awards for federally funded aid.</p>

<p>HOWEVER…schools that use the Profile are using this to disburse institutional aid. The FAFSA EFC really has no bearing on the formula these school use to disburse their OWN money (unless the school chooses to use this). </p>

<p>So please, do share how you know that the higher family contribution (per FAFSA if it is higher than Profile family contribution) is used for schools that use the Profile.</p>

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<p>In my post on the other thread (see link above) I said that apparently if a school gives ANY form of Federal aid to a student, then they are not allowed to give institutional aid that would result in a lower family contribution than the FAFSA EFC.</p>

<p>Tufts: “Tufts uses our institutional calculation to determine eligibility for Tufts grant aid, unless the government mandates a higher contribution via the federal calculation.”
[Tufts</a> University Financial Aid - Awarding Info - Calculating Eligibility](<a href=“Financial Services | AS&E Students”>Financial Services | AS&E Students)</p>

<p>Reed: "Generally, the college uses the Institutional Methodology (IM) formula to determine your expected family contribution and calculate your demonstrated financial need. Occasionally, the federal need analysis formula will produce a higher expected family contribution than the institutional formula. In these cases, the federal expected family contribution is used to calculate your demonstrated financial need.</p>

<p>Brown: “Institutional Methodology (IM)… We believe in most instances that this method of needs analysis more accurately determines a family’s ability to pay for education. Typically, this EFC will appear on your award letter from the University. However, there are situations where the IM calculation may actually be lower than the FM calculation due to slight differences in the tables and indexes used to calculate the contribution. Given that Brown awards federal funds, we must use the higher FM calculation in such instances.”
<a href=“https://financialaid.brown.edu/Cmx_Content.aspx?cpId=77[/url]”>https://financialaid.brown.edu/Cmx_Content.aspx?cpId=77&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>See my post in the other thread – Amherst offers a work-around of the Federal rules by offering “Amherst Only” aid. There may be a few other schools in the President’s 568 Group that also do this, but I could not find specific details of which schools, after spending quite a bit of time looking around on the Net.</p>

<p>Here is where the 568 Group addresses the problem (couldn’t find this when I posted on the other thread, after a lot of searching I finally located it again): "Federal Methodology Concerns: Current regulations specify that an award containing federal Title IV funds (Federal Work-Study, Perkins, SEOG, and subsidized Stafford loans), must not exceed the eligibility established through Federal Methodology (FM). Due to the standard Institutional Methodology, we already have a number of cases in which the institutional contribution is lower than the federal. The Consensus Approach is likely to increase the number of such cases. </p>

<p>Current approaches to the problem vary. Some schools default to the higher federal contribution while others use the lower institutional contribution and package institutional grant and unsubsidized federal loan. Still others use the lower institutional level and package institutional grant, subsidized institutional loan, and institutional work. </p>

<p>We recommend that the 568 Presidents’ Working Group support efforts for legislative relief in this critical area. If the Consensus Approach produces fair contribution levels, we should not be in a position of disadvantaging students either in the amount of aid that they receive or by excluding their eligibility for subsidized federal loans or Work-Study."
[568</a> President’s Report](<a href=“Home | Cornell Chronicle”>Home | Cornell Chronicle)</p>

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<p>So basically, there are even mixed “reviews” from this group.</p>

<p>Thank you for the info.</p>

<p>I’m still wondering if this applies to the awarding of FEDERALLY funded money only or if it applies to the awarding of institutional money as well. The links above are not particularly clear to me in that regard. I DO understand that all federally funded money MOST be awarded with the FAFSA EFC amount only being used. In other words IF the Profile family contribution was lower, this would NOT qualify someone for additional federal funding. But I’m having trouble with these schools being told by the federal government that they can’t determine the family contribution to be LOWER for institutional funding purposes.</p>

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<p>thumper1 - these schools ALSO have trouble being told by the federal government that they can’t determine the family contribution to be LOWER for institutional funding purposes-- that was the point of what I quoted above from the 568 Group’s website. They feel strongly that the Consensus Methodology is the fairest approach, and that schools should be able to use it for ALL of their financial aid applicants. They are trying to get the Feds to change the legislation, but in the meantime it seems that if a school that uses the CSS Profile wants to be fair and apply the same methodology for all FA applicants, the only solution is to do what Amherst does: for families whose Fed EFC is higher than the IM (or Consensus Methodology) contribution, those families are offered the option of a package which goes by the (lower) IM EFC but includes only institutional grants, institutional loans, and institutional (NOT Federal Work/study) jobs. (it’s not clear to me if it’s “kosher” to include UN-subsidized Federal loans in such packages, but according to the 568 Group document that I quoted some of the schools in that group DO do this.)</p>

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<p>To clarify: Is it illegal for schools to award their own money using their own IM EFC if it’s lower than the FAFSA EFC they use for awarding federal money?</p>

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<p>vossron - from what I can tell, it is illegal for a school to give a financial aid package using a lower IM EFC only IF that package includes Federal aid.</p>

<p>If the school uses its lower IM EFC and does what Amherst does with its “Amherst Only” aid - award a package that includes ONLY institutional grants, loans and work - then that is okay. (see the link to Amherst’s FA page that I gave on the other thread, “profile contribution less than FAFSA”)</p>

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<p>The only thing I can think of…if a school determines the family contribution using IM is LOWER than the FAFSA, the award they would give the student would actually be HIGHER…thus reducing their need per the federal methodology.</p>

<p>In other words…say a Harvard student’s FAFSA EFC was $10,000. If the school determined through IM that their family contribution was only $5000, and the school awarded them $5000 of additional aid because of this calculation, their FM EFC would actually be reduced by $5000 because the school reduced their NEED by awarding them $5000 in additional aid.</p>

<p>Am I making sense?</p>

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<p>thumper, from what I can tell (and the info from the FA websites of Brown, Tufts and Reed that I posted above seem to back this up), the school (Harvard in your hypothetical) would NOT be allowed under Federal law to award more aid than what the FM EFC would indicate (ie, they could not give the student/family $5000 “extra”) UNLESS the package was composed of only institutional grant, loans and work - in other words, no Perkins loan, subsidized Stafford loan (the situation with UNsubsidized loans is less clear, as I stated above) or Federal Work/Study job could be included in the package.
Apparently if any of those things ARE in the package, then the school must abide by the FM EFC and can not use any EFC that is lower (or to look at it another way, as you did, they can not give any award that is HIGHER).</p>

<p>If Harvard’s package consisted ONLY of institutional aid, then they could give the $5000 of “extra” aid, using a family contribution of $5000 instead of the FAFSA EFC of $10,000. Otherwise, no go.</p>

<p>Am <em>I</em> making sense? It’s confusing, I know. :-)</p>

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<p>Okay, I dug up the link about “Amherst Only” aid.
Here’s how they explain the situation:</p>

<p>“If any federal funds are used in a financial aid award “package,” the total amount of financial aid (excluding any unsubsidized student and parent loans) cannot exceed financial need determined using the Federal Methodology – the formula used by the federal government to determine your family contribution and, therefore, your maximum eligibility for financial aid. The College uses another formula, the Institutional Methodology, to determine your family contribution and eligibility for College aid. Sometimes the calculated family contribution determined using the Institutional Methodology is less than the Federal Methodology figure. In such situations, the College may offer financial aid from its own resources and not use any federal resources (other than possibly a Pell Grant, which is an entitlement under federal rules, or a Robert C. Byrd Scholarship, which is merit-based federal aid). In deciding whether to accept an “Amherst only” financial aid award, you should weigh the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the financial aid awards.”<br>
<a href=“https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/101652/original/Amherst%2BOnly%2BFinancial%2BAid%2B2009.pdf[/url]”>https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/101652/original/Amherst%2BOnly%2BFinancial%2BAid%2B2009.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>OK…here’s a question…I can think of lots of instances where the Profile family contribution would be higher (due to non-custodial parent info, home equity assessment, business expenses added back in, etc)…and the FAFSA EFC lower.</p>

<p>I’m having some trouble thinking of scenerio where the Profile family contribution would be LOWER…(and therefore the FAFSA EFC higher). </p>

<p>Could someone give me some examples of how this might happen?</p>

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<p>It happened to us.
For some states, the FAFSA yields a much lower allowance for state taxes relative to the Profile (for us, the difference 2 years ago was $5-6K, IIRC, comparing College Board’s IM and FM EFC calculators). I think the asset protection allowance is quite different in the two formulas. The income formulas vary as well- the FAFSA is based on data from the 1960s or thereabouts, where the Profile is at least a little more realistic.
So a family could be in a situation where the combination of a lower number for the state tax allowance, combined with FAFSA’s lower asset protection allowance (especially in a situation where the assets are over the FAFSA’s protection allowance but just barely over the Profile’s allowance with not much home equity.) and its lower level of protected income add up to a difference of several $K or more.</p>

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<p>I didn’t read every word of this thread so please excuse me if I repeat any info. In my case my Profile EFC is smaller than the FAFSA EFC due to the college (full need met, no loans) accounting for the tuition I pay for a younger sibling at prep school. We were not eligible for any Fed $ except for WS. When D1 (the college student in question) was awarded outside scholarships - they were credited against the student contribution - the work study was taken out of the package. Of course she still got a campus job - just not a WS job. I know the Profile EFC was smaller than the FAFSA because of the award package AND in the 2nd year of FA the school told me the Profile EFC when I called with a question. On the “Project on Student Debt” website they list which EFC the school will meet. Typically they say they will meet the Profile EFC, but I am sure there are some that will meet the FAFSA EFC if it is higher - how would a student ever know? I am very grateful that my D1’s school operates the way they do!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses. So to clarify, the most aid that one can expect to recieve is either going to be the FAFSA EFC or higher? </p>

<p>From what you guys are saying, the only reason they have the institutional method is not to help the student, but to help themselves? They want you to send the CSS in hopes of reaching a higher family contribution through their Institutional Methodology so they have to give out less aid? </p>

<p>Also, can someone explain to me how some students can end up going to a private school with a final price tag of around what a state school would cost? I know of a few people from school and they are definitely not “poor” by any standard…</p>

<p>I have also been told that some of the more “prestigious” schools end up being more generous with their aid. For example, from Columbia University, they refer to the FAFSA EFC, but then also state, “For many families, the EFC calculated by Columbia may be lower than the above calculators because Columbia uses a more generous calculation of a family’s ability to pay.” This seems to contradict what you guys are saying about how the school ends up making you pay more than the FAFSA EFC.</p>

<p>The link is here:
[Financial</a> Need & Your Eligibility | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Financial Aid and Educational Financing](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/finaid/eligibility/contribution.php]Financial”>Determining Eligibility | Columbia Financial Aid and Educational Financing)</p>

<p>I’m so confused right now, since you all are trusted posters, but do your anecdotes and links suggest that Columbia is lying? Or do “elite” schools like Columbia tend to do the opposite? (The CSS actually lowering your contribution?)</p>

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<p>funnyman, although the Columbia page is not very clear, this is what I think the situation is:
Columbia is part of the President’s 568 group, which uses what they call the “Consensus Methodology”, a modification of the IM. This methodology can yield a lower EFC than the “basic” <strong>IM</strong> EFC that the online calculators give. This is because the consensus methodology CAPS HOME EQUITY (at something like 2 0r 2.4X income?? - too tired to look it up), and makes some other changes to the “usual” or “basic” Institutional Method. So for families w/ significant home equity (and perhaps for some other situations as well) the Consensus Methodology used by the 568 Group schools IS more generous than the usual IM.
I think that this is what Columbia means when they say "“For many families, the EFC calculated by Columbia may be lower than the above calculators because Columbia uses a more generous calculation of a family’s ability to pay.” – they mean it can be lower than the INSTITUTIONAL EFC yielded by the calculators; they are not talking about the FAFSA EFC. Unfortunately, unlike Tufts, Brown, Reed, and Amherst, Columbia does not discuss what happens if <em>their</em> EFC (determined by their Institutional/Consensus methodology) turns out to be lower than the <em>Federal</em> EFC. </p>

<p>If Columbia is a school that your kid is interested in, it may be a good idea to call or email the FA office and ask them “If our family’s <em>Federal</em> EFC turns out to be higher than your institutional family contribution, which one do you use?”</p>

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<p>funnyman, to answer the 1st question in your post - this is generally true, but Amherst and <em>perhaps</em> a small number of other schools will use their lower institutional EFC and give a package which includes only institutional aid - no Federal Work/Study (but perhaps an institutional job where the pay comes from their funds, not the Fed’s), and no Federal subsidized loans (but perhaps institutional loans). See my previous posts.</p>

<p>Bottom line, for the vast majority of schools your EFC will be the HIGHER of the two (FM or IM).</p>

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<p>The CSS Profile asks more (detailed) questions than the FAFSA. The theory behind this is to get a better understanding of the family’s finances. Colleges that offer a lot of institutional aid want to make sure they have the “full picture” as they allocate their own aid. For instance, a student who lives with her (divorced) mother may have a low FAFSA EFC because the mom doesn’t earn a lot of money. However, the CSS Profile will ask for non custodial parent info as well. Obviously, colleges aren’t going to give need based aid to a student whose father is a billionaire! </p>

<p>I don’t think Columbia is lying per se… it’s more like potentially misleading marketing. They define what your need is and then will meet it. For low income families, and lower middle income families whose financial situation is not complicated, these meets full need colleges may very well be cheaper than a state school. The problem is when their definition of need does not line up with your family’s definition of need/ reality. This mal-alignment of expectations tends to hit certain income levels particularly hard. (I think this is where the above posters are coming from). </p>

<p>The big question is to ask your parents is how much they will pay. If it’s only $20k per year then it is likely that Columbia would be unaffordable given that both calculated EFCs are much higher. </p>

<p>In the mean time, make sure you have applied to a college that you know you can get into and can afford if you haven’t already. Come spring, you will let the chips fall as they may.</p>