what does this data mean?

<p>Ellenmenope, that may be true, but when I looked at private and public schools with 30% or more pell grant recipients, that reasoning may not hold true. Obviously, going to a private is going to cost more, in many cases, than a public --- yet, when you compare public and privates with 30% or more of Pell grant recipients, the grad rates at the private schools are actually higher. Anyone care to speculate why this would be? (By the way, when you look at the 5 and 6 year grad rates for these schools, the same schools with only one or two exceptions stay on the list, but, of course, their grad rates go up somewhat.)</p>

<p>4 Year grad rates at Public Universities where >30% receive Pell Grants</p>

<ol>
<li>SUNY Binghamton 69.9% </li>
<li>SUNY Albany 53.5</li>
<li>UCLA 52.9</li>
<li>UCB 51.8</li>
<li>Univ. of Toledo 46.8</li>
<li>Troy State 38.7</li>
<li>UC Irvine 38.6</li>
<li>Evergreen State 37.7</li>
<li>Plattsburg 37.5</li>
<li>UC Riverside 37.1</li>
</ol>

<p>4 Year Grad rates at schools with >30% pell grant recipients</p>

<ol>
<li>Wells College 78.3</li>
<li>LeMoyne College 66.3</li>
<li>Spellman 64.4</li>
<li>Cedar Crest 62.6</li>
<li>Bay Path College 61.2</li>
<li>Franciscan U of Steubenville 61.2</li>
<li>Fisk 59%</li>
<li>Lesley 58.3</li>
<li>College of St. Scholastca 57.8</li>
<li>Houghton 57.7</li>
</ol>

<p>The "opportunity cost" of giving up the private education is higher. It may also be easier to renew what scholarship aid is available, or to renegotiate aid packages.</p>

<p>That was my thinking too Mini. I think you're correct in that many private schools are willing to negotiate aid packages or "pull some extra money" out of the hat when a student's circumstances change, while publics don't usually have that flexibility for one reason or another.</p>

<p>Carolyn: Is it possible also that private schools have invested more in resources (in addition to financial aid) that support students in keeping on course (writing centers, counseling services for example? ) or that differences in size are relevant? </p>

<p>On a different note --looking at your great website--led me to this question. How do schools "count" students in their graduation rate who do a 2/3 or 3/3 combined program like Oxy/CalTech or Whitman/Columbia Law?</p>

<p>I don't suppose there are than many in any one class--but they would have an effect on the percentage in schools with small class size.</p>

<p>I'd like to see the numbers for students working and being mostly self-supporting. I find many of these at state schools and only a few at privates. This often means taking a lighter load and even a semester off when money is tight. I have seen stats that over half of Wisconsin undergrads work at least part-time.</p>

<p>How do schools "count" students in their graduation rate who do a 2/3 or 3/3 combined program like Oxy/CalTech or Whitman/Columbia Law?</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>MMaah, I don't know this for certain, and have no idea how to find out, but I would bet that most schools count the combined program kids as having graduated with their class in the 4 year number once they move on to the combined program. Of course, that's just a guess on my part.</p>

<p>Barrons, I also would like to see the numbers for kids who are self-supporting or working. I can pull numbers for PART TIME students but I am not sure that is fair to make the leap in assumption that all part time students are working.</p>

<p>Look at the NSSE survey. It has the percent of students working on and off campus.</p>

<p><a href="http://wiscinfo.doit.wisc.edu/obpa/Surveys/2004_NSSE_report.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://wiscinfo.doit.wisc.edu/obpa/Surveys/2004_NSSE_report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The problem with the NSSE is that it is so limited --- the top schools don't participate and revealing results is optional, even for the schools that do participate. Yet, for those schools who do share results, I find it to be one of the most useful tools for understanding a school's overall culture out there...but that's only if you can get your hands on the actual numbers, not the school's marketing of them.</p>

<p>One thing I find fascinating in the info. provided on the <a href="http://www.collegeresults.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegeresults.org&lt;/a> data base is the instructional costs/student figures. There are enormous differences --- and it's an eye opener when you look at tuition costs.</p>

<p>The problem is that there is no way to compare expenditures per student between different types of schools. For example, the numbers at most R1 research universities lump the expenditures on grad schools and contracted research into those numbers. </p>

<p>Even among identical types of schools where a clean comparison should be possible (i.e. undergrad only schools), there are different accounting classifications. For example, financial aid discounts can either be treated as a reduction revenues (doesn't show up as spending at all, the school simply reports lower revenues) or as an expense item (does show up as spending) with revenues reflecting the hypothetical full tuition price before discounts. You really have to look at each school's budget to make apples to apples comparisons.</p>