I asked about whether it’d be best to go in state or OOS for a pre-med interest and everyone mentioned I would get weeded out at Northwestern, UMich, and UChi. What does that mean? How does it compare to going to Purdue or IUB?
Weed out courses/being weeded out comes up in somewhat different contexts. Sometimes certain courses are used to narrow the field (say in engineering) because there is a limited number of spots for different majors/specialties. So its a competition for those limited spots. Kids that do not make it have effectively been weeded out.
Another instance of that are courses that by their nature/substance are very difficult and for some kids extremely difficult to pass and/or pass with good grades. Core classes required for medicine and engineering core classes are often included in that group. Math and science classes in many cases.
When it comes to wanting medicine, looking at weed out classes/grade inflation or deflation can be a factor for picking a school. Some people take the view that you should pick a school where you are in the top 25% of stats making it more likely you will do well and have a high GPA when applying to med schools rather than a school where you will be in the bottom 25% in terms of stats. Though grad inflation can even that out.
So if I was to go to IU or Purdue would I have a greater chance of being accepted into med school? What is the grade inflation/deflation compared between IU/Purdue and UMich/UChi/NW?
If you were to fail Orgo Chemistry at an elite school you would likely fail it at IU or Purdue.
What does that mean? Is IU or Purdue harder, or are the grades just less inflated?
The material covered in say orgo chemistry is the same at any decent school. If you don’t have the intelligence to understand it you will fail or do poorly. If you party too much you will do poorly anywhere. If you are admitted to an elite school they judges you capable of doing the work.
Medical schools will not accept premed required courses don in community college because those courses are often watered down.
So is it basically the same wherever I go? I don’t plan on partying, I’m just not that type of person.
Well one thing to consider in terms of in-state versus OOS is cost. Medical school is expensive and there is very little merit aid. Whatever cash you (or parents maybe) have and the rest will be loans.
In a college context, “weeded out” means that the student is unsuccessful in a secondary admission process that s/he needs to pass in order to achieve a desired goal, such as getting into a major or a graduate or professional school. In this context, the secondary admission process has criteria significantly more difficult than baseline criteria of 2.0 GPA and/or C grades.
For example: It is easy to be a pre-med. It is difficult to get admitted to a medical school. So most pre-meds are “weeded out” – i.e. unsuccessful at their goal of getting admitted to a medical school.
No that’s not true, it’s more about who you are competing with, if your competing with students at an elite school the professor will go much more in depth and proceed faster through the class. This means you could be overwhelmed. If attending an institution with a less competition the course will proceed slower and with less depth that you could keep up and receive a decent grade. Look at the ends of the spectrum for illustration, do you think you could get an A in calculus at a community college vs Cal Tech?
I’m taking a community college calculus this year (junior), and I hope I get an A?? Math is my strongest subject, but I don’t really know if I could at Caltech as I’m not that interested in math, I’m just able to be successful at it. I don’t really know how to answer that question.
Caltech is an outlier in math course rigor, even when compared to other highly selective colleges. Caltech’s “calculus” course is heavy with theory and proofs, and students are expected to have had a regular high school or college calculus course previously (at nearly all other colleges, even highly selective ones, the prerequisite for the usual calculus course is precalculus/trigonometry).
I took Precal/trig this past year and got a high A, and am taking AP Calc AB this next year. Where does this put me as far as college calculus classes go?
A sufficiently high* score on the AP calculus AB exam is often accepted by colleges to place into the second semester calculus course. You may want to try the college’s first semester calculus course final exams to check your knowledge against the college’s standards.
*Some colleges require a 3 for advanced placement, others require a 4, and still others require a 5.
My freshman Chem class was taught by a professor who also taught Organic Chemistry. People in his Ochem class told me this was his grading curve:
A for geniuses - Einstein level people (or if you prefer Watson, Crick, Pasteur)
B for scholars
C for grad students in Chemistry
D and Fs - the undergrads in the class
This is not a school where even if you don’t know anything, you’d get a B (insert favorite ivy here). Organic chemistry is the classic pre-med weed out, similar to electricty and magnetism for EEs and switching theory for computer engineers.
*Some colleges require a 3 for advanced placement, others require a 4, and still others require a 5.
Does that tell you a little about the level and depth that classes are taught at different universities?
Sometimes… but sometimes there are other motivations for acceptance or non-acceptance of AP (or IB or transfer) credit.
I can’t speak for other schools but at Purdue they have specific “weed out” classes for certain programs. For example, the pre-pharmacy program starts with about 300 students in freshman year. By the beginning of Sophomore year they need to “weed out” aprox. 100 kids, eventually leading to a Pharmacy class of 150 students (the rest eliminated by interview, etc) by end of sophmore year.
To do this the intentionally have pre-pharm students take a “weed out” version of organic chemistry freshman year. Organic chem is difficult enough on it’s own and they have one version for other majors and a different more difficult “weed out” version for pre-pharm students.
Purdue also has a strict no grade inflation policy.
^ yes. Weeding is what happens between starting as a freshman with premed intentions and making into junior year still on th e med path, getting your school’s committee endorsements. It’s not about being rejected from med school.
It’s not naming Northwestern vs IU/Purdue.
You want to find the right program at your level. For many, that means a cooperative vs a competitive premed environment.
When they’re brutally weeding, it’s not as simple as holding classes at a high level. It can be testing on material not covered. Or even, not in the texts or syllabus. A cooperative program is different.
The determined get through. The intimidated tend to find other majors.
It’s very hard to find true stats on this. Many colleges brag that some impressive percent of their students applying to med school get admitted.
They don’t tell you the number they supported in med apps is a teeny fraction of kids who started as premeds.
You are misunderstanding. It’s not the grade inflation that’s the issue.
Imagine that you have to run a race and the top 5 runners get a prize. You are allowed to choose to run in a race with Olympic runners or you can choose to run with college runners. Which race would you be LESS likely to be one of the top 5 finishers?? The race with the Olympic runners…right??
If you went to NU, UMich, UChi as a premed, you’d be running with Olympians. More likely than not, you’d end up with a running time (GPA) well below the top finishers.
Many high school students who want to go to med school often make their FIRST mistake by choosing a top college. Then they soon find that their classmates are all extremely strong students…and only a limited number will end up with med school worth GPAs. We see strong high school students’ GPAs fall in college, especially if they’re premed at a top school. And then they have to change their dream.
There’s a parent on this board whose premed child went to one of those 3 mentioned schools. She obvioulsy was a top high school student to get in. Her GPA suffered and she wasn’t accepted to any US MD med schools. If she had gone to, say Indiana or Purdue, she likely would have been a star student.
When my son was choosing his college, he knew he wanted to become a doctor, so we knew it would be best for him to go to a “good school,” but not a tippy top one. He graduated from college with a 3.99 GPA and graduated from med school in May. If he had gone to a school like the 3 you listed, it is more doubtful that he would have ended up with a top GPA. As a white male, he’d have been less likely to get into a US MD med school wth a GPA that was a 3.5 or worse.