<p>Especially for current students, what do you dislike about Fordham?</p>
<p>-academics (grades, teachers, course availability, scheduling, etc.)
-social scene (well...it's NYC)
-campus (security, etc.)</p>
<p>Anything!</p>
<p>i don't like the amount of liberal arts core that we have to take. that's probably my biggest problem with the school. after that i think for the most part everything else is ok. social life is ehh at least for me. for some people it seems pretty great.</p>
<p>Well, I just finished my freshman year at Fordham, so I guess I have a few things to air.</p>
<p>Academics are mix, but you can say that about any college or universityabsolutely every college or universityso I'll try to articulate my absolutely biggest beef with Fordham's academics: as a pretty-good student with not a lot of APs coming in, academic life resembled a caste system.</p>
<p>First of all, there's two colleges: CBA (the business school) and Fordham College (arts & sciences). Second of all, there are two honors programs: Global something for CBA and honors for Fordham College. Oh, and third of all, there are two groups on campus: commuters and residents. (but I'll get to that later).</p>
<p>The result is a mish-mash of unfortunately stratified students who have little academically in common with one another. I wish I could say this doesn't bother me, but it does; it disintegrates any kind of discussion around class, or maybe a text, because Fordham is bent on attracting top-flight students to the honors programs. No one's engaged; that they make an A is literally the only thing that matters.</p>
<p>Fordham is simply not an academic school. It's very much treated as a means to an end by most students, such ends being jobs or internships. I wasn't aware of this climate when I toured, which I something I kick myself a lot for now.</p>
<p>There too are other little things about academic life at Fordham that I found unfortunateelitism among certain students with merit aid, the very existence of merit aid (I understand the logicyesbut it's at the expense of deserving underprivileged students who are systemically denied housingbut more on that later), student apathy, the hollow image of Fordham as a "work hard, play hard" school, and finally the lie of "small class sizes." Do you remember the girl from Newsweek who was quoted as talking about her magical small class sizes. Well, that wasn't representative of Fordham; that was representative of the honors program. Class sizes increase as you progress through your major, not decrease.</p>
<p>The social scene is okay. It's very much centered around drinking, but Manhattan isas much as it's said, it remains truea nice excursion. Very little happens on campus. On weekends, with all the Long Island and New Jersey people gone, it's practically dead. School spirit comes in small and infrequent quantities.</p>
<p>The biggest problem, I feel, is the literal division between freshman who commute and freshman who live on campus, because it is often drawn along racial and socioeconomic boundaries. There are very few Hispanic residents; there's maybe five white people who commuted their freshman year. People who live off-campus, as a side note, are generally categorized differently from those who live at home. </p>
<p>All this leads to a lot of undiscussed tension, because being a residentas I wasbecomes a symbol of privilege (and, well, it is). Fordham should try to house every single freshman on campus, perhaps at the expense of upper-class housing. I can think of no other school in the same category as FordhamCatholic, residential, urbanor what they call "peer and aspirant school" (being BC as much as NYU, Notre Dame and Georgetown as much as Columbia) that is unable to house all freshman on campus. It's a disgrace, because Fordham literally pays students a lump sum to live off campus, and when that person is from the Bronx, when that person is black or hispanic, it can't help but feel a little exploitiveFordham prides itself on its ethnic diversity as a national university, but it certainly doesn't treat every student the same.</p>
<p>Security is fine. Really, it's fine. The food is pretty horrible. If you have any other questions, just ask.</p>
<p>And Jeydomz, as a word of advice, please don't listen to the people on this board who have this dogmatic faith in Fordham as an institution—these parents of Fordham students especially. It's not good advice, at all.</p>
<p>and i thought i was cynical about fordham.</p>
<p>i think you might have set your expectations a bit too high man.</p>
<p>i know a few off-campus students and they are as much a part of campus life as regular residents.</p>
<p>also i don't see what's wrong with a university being a means to an end. if you go to college to continue in academia that's your business, but most students attend because that degree has a much higher chance of getting them a better job and salary than the person who doesn't have one.</p>
<p>as for food, i thought it was horrible last year. this year it got somewhat better. let me be clear though i absolutely hated it freshman year. you just learn to get used to it though. most college food will be like that.</p>
<p>also i'm not sure what classes you are talking about as far as major classes are concerned, but it varies from major to major which classes are packed. my major doesn't have many students in it. accounting on the hand will have more students. also you said you just finished your freshman year, how do you know what major classes are like?</p>
<p>Thanks for your perspective and some info on how thngs are done there in terms of academic divisions. I know many kids who go to Fordham, and they seem to absolutely love it there. As far as the food goes, I think it's about average, but you have Arthur Avenue just around the corner, for goodness sakes and if you can't find good there, you have a problem. And for a cheap price too! Not many schools in that situation. </p>
<p>I know that a lot of kids go off campus weekends, but that is to be expected with a free van going into Manhattan. How much more exciting can that get? Plus with 2 train stations just around the corner to take you wherever you want to go? The beautiful botanical gardens, all kinds of sporting events to watch, I can't imagine not having enough to do at that school. </p>
<p>What is the grad student situation as far as TAs go? How are the profs?</p>
<p>"i think you might have set your expectations a bit too high man."</p>
<p>Well, yes—this was a revelation that came to me early on. Which does nothing to account for certain shortcomings.</p>
<p>"i know a few off-campus students and they are as much a part of campus life as regular residents."</p>
<p>There's a difference between off-campus residents and commuters; one lives with other people in an apartment, the latter lives at home. The commuter/resident tangent is a long-recognized divisional problem in the university, and it's depressing it hasn't been addressed.</p>
<p>"also i don't see what's wrong with a university being a means to an end."</p>
<p>It's not so much a problem as a false representation of Fordham. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing. It's just that Fordham isn't upfront about the fact that students' focus on academics is largely secondary to the focus on professional training.</p>
<p>"you just learn to get used to it though. most college food will be like that."</p>
<p>Yeah, I know. It's just still kind of unfortunate. It feels like a wasted opportunity.</p>
<p>"how do you know what major classes are like?"</p>
<p>Here's how, at least for my major:</p>
<p>The</a> Ram - Conflict Over Class Size</p>
<p>Okay, and now cptofthehouse:</p>
<p>"I know many kids who go to Fordham, and they seem to absolutely love it there."</p>
<p>This is not the same thing as being satisfied; "seeming" is not the same thing as "being". There's a significant incentive for students from any college to seem to ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT because it's indicative that they made the right decision in their senior year of high school. Besides, did you go to Fordham? Are you a parent or something?</p>
<p>"As far as the food goes, I think it's about average, but you have Arthur Avenue just around the corner, for goodness sakes and if you can't find good there, you have a problem."</p>
<p>Well then. I think the question was about the meal plan, not local dining. Yes, Arthur Ave is really great for food. The caf, not so much.</p>
<p>"I know that a lot of kids go off campus weekends, but that is to be expected with a free van going into Manhattan. How much more exciting can that get?"</p>
<p>This is a frequently-encountered attitude, especially from people unfamiliar with the school. First of all, the van is NOT free. It's 3 dollars one way, to the upper-west-side/midtown. Second of all, the abundance of off-campus activities does necessarily deplete campus life of any sort. That Fordham has a pretty nice campus doesn't mean it has any kind of campus spirit or activity.</p>
<p>"What is the grad student situation as far as TAs go? How are the profs?"</p>
<p>I was pretty lucky with my professors and TAs. The general consensus is that faculty is pretty good.</p>
<p>I did not go to Fordham U, nor do any of my kids. My son did apply there and it was a strong consideration. He has a lot of friends who are going there, as do all of my kids. It is a popular choice around here. </p>
<p>When I say the kids I know who go there love it, I mean it in a sense above and beyond the usual response about college. When I ask kids how they like college, they may say, it's ok, going fine, it's cool, it's all right. The kids I know who are at Fordham light up and say they love. Almost all of them. A few of them were disappointed in going there at first, as it was not their first choice school. After a while, that changed, and they now love it. I don't get that response from that questions about any other school where I know a sizable number of kids going, including my alma mater. A lot of people from my generation were commuters, and that does color the impression of the college experience. All but one kid I know who goes there live there. I don't know what the % of commuters are at Fordham, but I will affirm that a large commuting % does affect the life on campus. However, being so close to a major city, and they don't get much bigger than Manhattan, also affects campus life. How can you compete with NYC? I think that Manhattan College, Fordham, St Johns are great admissions deals for anyone who wants enjoy the Big Apple. And with the big sports games on campus, it has more spirit and activity than most city schools, I would think. </p>
<p>The consensus from those I know agree with you about the faculty and professors. There are some gripes about the core curriculum, but no more so than at any college that has such requirements. My son gripes about core curriculum at his school when has very few requirements. That is not an uncommon gripe. What other school with the admissions profile of its kind would you say is preferable to Fordham? I am curious, as it is on my list for my next son.</p>
<p>Cptofthehouse,</p>
<p>Before I say anything, I want to highlight the fact that you're a PARENT—and not even the parent of a Fordham student. That your son's friends love it cannot be construed to mean everyone at Fordham does.</p>
<p>I really bemoan the fact that a good chunk of posters on this board are Fordham parents. It offers a very filtered and distant perspective.</p>
<p>"What other school with the admissions profile of its kind would you say is preferable to Fordham?"</p>
<p>Fordham regards NYU, Georgetown, BC, Notre Dame and a few other as peer or aspirant schools, so your son might want to consider them.</p>
<p>"There's a difference between off-campus residents and commuters; one lives with other people in an apartment, the latter lives at home. The commuter/resident tangent is a long-recognized divisional problem in the university, and it's depressing it hasn't been addressed."</p>
<p>I know what the difference is. But you originally stated: "The biggest problem, I feel, is the literal division between freshman who commute and freshman who live on campus, because it is often drawn along racial and socioeconomic boundaries. There are very few Hispanic residents; there's maybe five white people who commuted their freshman year. People who live off-campus, as a side note, are generally categorized differently from those who live at home."</p>
<p>You're making it seem as if off-campus students are in a whole separate category themselves. I'm telling you they are not.</p>
<p>The problem with commuters and residents on campus is that there is not enough housing. That is why Fordham is constructing a new dorm building by Martyrs. This is going to be a problem at any school you go to, not just at Fordham. If you commute it becomes tougher to make friends on campus because you don't spend as much as time with them as the people who live on campus do. It's just how that works out. As commuter there are opportunities to get involved on campus, at Fordham and other schools as well, but it takes more initiative on part of the commuting student. It is what it is. I was a commuter myself. I sympathize with commuters, but also understand why it is that the issue itself will never go away. There isn't a substitute for living on campus.</p>
<p>"Yeah, I know. It's just still kind of unfortunate. It feels like a wasted opportunity."
Also how is the food a 'wasted opportunity'? I know how bad the food is. But it's roughly the same at most schools. The food gets repetitive and therefore starts to suck. Fortunately, much like your home meals, you just get used to it. I hated it Freshman year, Soph. year I just didn't give a damn and ate it because there was no other choice.</p>
<p>Yes, I am a parent and not a Fordham parent. My son turned down Fordham this year. I am not trying to construe anything. It is a school that a lot of the kids we know really love, not just like. I don't think NYU, GT, ND, or BC are peer schools in terms of admissions. I believe Fordham is a good admissions deal. For my son it was a strong match, maybe safety as he applied EA. They did give him merit money. The schools you mention would have all been reaches for my son, and not a dime of merit if he could have even gotten in. I guess I'm looking for schools with similar admissions profile.</p>
<p>I am not a proponent of Fordham for any reason than for what it offers in terms of admissions profile, location, amenties, academics, professors, etc. It was a big choice for kids in this area because they heard so many good things about it from their peers.</p>
<p>I am not trying to joust with you on the subject. When we looked at schools, Fordham was a good deal for my son, we thought. Good academics without too high of a selectivity. Location, campus, majors, kids, professors, spirit, etc. The cost with merit money came to about $30K for him which would be the same for Georgia Tech or Indiana U in Bloomington. He would have preferred F for the same money without a doubt. BU would have been about the same category, but doubt he would have gotten merit money. He did not like lack of campus, atmosphere there and the size was also an issue. Did not seem as personal. Villanova was another possibility without as much merit, and a consideration. The SUNYs were the best deal in terms of $$s but the differential was not worth it to my son because Fordham was overall better in terms of campus, amenities, location, diversity, etc. Only SUNY Buffalo with a generous merit award was a consideration. Hofstra is another possibility. But it is really hard to find a better overall deal for the admissions profile.</p>
<p>I don't know about Fordham giving better aid than NYU necessarily.
I only say this because I got into both schools, and NYU offered me more aid.
So if your son is good enough to get $3OK in merit aid from Fordham, he might be good enough to get a comparable amount from NYU.</p>
<p>"I was a commuter myself. I sympathize with commuters, but also understand why it is that the issue itself will never go away. There isn't a substitute for living on campus."</p>
<p>Why won't it go away? The commuter population is a relic of the past; it's a absolute scandal that Fordham can't house all of its freshmen. Try to find another school like Fordham that doesn't house more than 1/4 of the freshman body. It's impossible! All of its Catholic peers house almost 100% of their freshmen. NYU houses 88% of freshmen, and it's in Greenwich village.</p>
<p>there's the problem. you want all freshman to get housing. fordham doesn't discriminate against upper classmen. it's a shame that at some schools once you're a junior or senior you can't live on campus.</p>
<p>not to mention not all commuters are in the same situation like you're assuming. some can't afford housing even if there were housing available. some simply don't care for living on campus. not to mention it would be awful if fordham completely declined admissions to students that couldn't live on campus when it the student's fault. that would be the equivalent of saying to the student 'you're smart, but not rich enough to afford housing here so we can't take you'. 25% of students attending fordham are from nyc (5 boroughs).</p>
<p>other factors also include the fact that fordham gotten many more applicants in the last few years than they ever have. when i applied it had around a 70% acceptance rate. now it's at 30% i believe. applicants roughly have been 17,000 in 2006, 22,000 in 2007, and around 28,000 in 2008. </p>
<p>also, you can't compare nyu to fordham. the nyu campus is nothing like the fordham's campus. they are mostly scattered around the village. they have the staff and the facilities to house more students whereas fordham does not.</p>
<p>Very interesting discussion. Hope you don't mind an alum, a parent and former commuter posting!</p>
<p>""The problem with commuters and residents on campus is that there is not enough housing. That is why Fordham is constructing a new dorm building by Martyrs.""</p>
<p>BP - the reason Fordham is constructing more housing has absolutely nothing to do with the commuter/resident issues. These issues were alive and well in the 1980s when I was a student, and are still problematic to commuters today (there was a recent Ram article about this). FU is building dorms, not to house local students, but to attract students from around the country and establish itself as a premier catholic university in the lines of Notre Dame and Georgetown. It cannot do this if it remains a "commuter school". Many local students will continue to be denied housing once the new dorms are built. However, many local students do get offered housing. My d was offered housing and we are a 20 minute drive to campus. She, however, had excellent stats and I do believe that makes a difference. Often local students who are accepted but are not at the top of their class are offered admittance without housing.</p>
<p>Fordham used to be a sure thing for any local kid applying, but not any longer as they are moving away from being know as a "commuter school" and trying to establish themselves as a national university.</p>
<p>Funny thing is when my d visited Notre Dame and spent the night, her hosts asked if her parents were ND alumni. She responded that we went to Fordham, and the kids at Notre Dame had never heard of Fordham - another catholic university!</p>
<p>With regard to the racial background of commuters, there are definitely more than 5 white freshman commuters. I know quite a few who commute, who chose to commute rather than dorm, and since I'm on campus a lot, I also see lots of non-minorities in the parking garage commuting to school, although they are not all freshman. Race was never an issue with regards to commuters in the 1980s, but since the demographics of the Bronx have changed considerably since then, I can understand how this has become a concern.</p>
<p>Also, FU does offer room grants to students, so lower income students are able to afford on campus housing. That's another option to look into.</p>
<p>FordhamAlum, you talk about how Fordham is trying to establish itself as a national universityyet still holds ties to the fact of its commuter (subway-school) history. I think Fordham is going through a very awkward phase right now; I can't, however, be certain it will ever rid itself of its roots as mobilizer for the Bronx's young residents.</p>
<p>The fact is this: As Fordham continues to attract students from further reaches, as the university continues to strive to beat ND or Georgetown, it will at some point stop serving the community that raised it.</p>
<p>"it will at some point stop serving the community that raised it."</p>
<p>I don't have that stats, but I would believe that many older Fordham Alumni, the people Fordham solicits for donations, lived locally and the majority commuted. I grew up in the Bronx and the majority of kids from the Bronx in my day either went to Fordham or Iona. </p>
<p>In my present neighborhood and parish, there are so many Fordham graduates, I couldn't count them. In my family alone, we have 5 graduates, 3 former employees, we have in-laws that are graduates, and when we have parties or get togethers, the room is filled with Fordhdam graduates, filled with Fordham stories, all former Bronx residents. The man I bought my house from was a graduate, my neighbor is a graduate, dozens of friends are graduates, even my Parish priest is a graduate. I could go on and on about local ties.</p>
<p>However, I believe FU has already begun this phase of it's transition. Several years ago, I had numerous local parents express their dismay to me when their child was rejected. The kids and the parents were shocked as these students would have easily been admitted a year or so prior to that. Since that time, local parents no longer expect FU to be a sure thing for their kids. It is no longer the local school all the kids go to. It is no longer the school local kids don't have to worry about being rejected from. I know dozens and dozens of kids from Fordham Prep who have been rejected over the past 8 or so years. Fordham Prep kids always got into FU, but no longer. At least among local parents, FU is no longer perceived as a haven for local students. And that is a sad thing, particularly when so many local families have ties to Fordham and this certainly cannot be good for Fordham's endowment.</p>
<p>Many of the kids I know who go to Fordham and commute do so out of choice. THey want that tuition discount. It can make a big difference to those who are trying to cut costs. Kids can commute there--public transportation is very available, save by living at home, get a private education and get 10-15% tuition discount. If the same student gets some merit money as well, it can be a competitive package for a school in NYC.</p>
<p>NYU would have been a reach for my son. We do not qualify for financial aid, so merit money was important to us. Fordham with its merit package, loan possibilities and commuting possibilities was a very attractive option to us. It was way up there in his choices and a tough decision for him. Also many of the commuters I know are white. I do not know what the % of kids are that are denied housing. Monorail, do only 25% of the freshmen live on campus, or am I misunderstanding?</p>
<p>Fordhamalum, I know what you mean. Several locals I know very upset that their kids did not get into Fordham. It is a loss of sorts. However, one of the big problems of the SUNYs is that there are just too many NYers and not enough diversity from other states. It is a shame that those at ND did not recognize Fordham's name. </p>
<p>I grew up overseas, and Fordham was a known name to me even then. I would rate it about the same as Villa Nova, but behind ND, BC, GT and HC. Definitely one of the catholic giants.</p>