<p>Looking at the average starting salaries of MIT grads (for both BSc and MSc), and grads from my school (UAlberta), there isn't a very big difference in starting salaries. Considering the cost of going to a school like MIT, what exactly are the advantages of going there?</p>
<p><insert obvious="" jokes="" about="" exchange="" rates="" here=""></insert></p>
<p>I've taken the exchange rates into consideration already... but thanks for wasting my time.</p>
<p>It's only subjective. That can mean a lot in certain circumstances.</p>
<p>social masturbation. that's pretty much it.</p>
<p>Well, first, there's access to undergraduate research opportunities and internships; about 80% of undergrads do research, often with top people in their fields, and about 85-90% complete at least one internship during their four years. </p>
<p>There's also the issue of non-engineering jobs -- looking at the starting salaries for engineers is slightly misleading, because so many MIT graduates choose to go into investment banking. Investment banks are actually the most frequent employers of new MIT graduates, rather than engineering firms. Even in engineering, some companies (most notably Google) will only hire from MIT and other top programs.</p>
<p>Also, going to MIT as an undergraduate is the best way to get into MIT for graduate school. Some programs offer automatic masters admission to students with above-average GPAs. In others, admissions is simply easier because the student is already familiar with faculty on the admissions committee, and the admissions committee is familiar with the student's capabilities.</p>
<p>People aren't really thinking of those things when they choose to come, generally... one of the biggest benefits of going to school with a bunch of really smart people is just going to school with a bunch of really smart people.</p>
<p>i thinks its mainly a prestige thing. thats 90% of it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, first, there's access to undergraduate research opportunities and internships; about 80% of undergrads do research, often with top people in their fields, and about 85-90% complete at least one internship during their four years
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's access to undergrad research at Penn State. There's something called an honors option where you take a course and do research work related to the course.Almost every course at PSU has an honors option. And all you have to do is 1) be in the honors program or 2) get the permission of the course instructor. There are also top professors over here. I know two chem E professors who graduated from MIT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's also the issue of non-engineering jobs -- looking at the starting salaries for engineers is slightly misleading, because so many MIT graduates choose to go into investment banking. Investment banks are actually the most frequent employers of new MIT graduates, rather than engineering firms. Even in engineering, some companies (most notably Google) will only hire from MIT and other top programs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah- this IMO, is the only 'benefit' of going to MIT. But not every 1) wants to do IB or MC or 2) has what it takes to get these jobs. Also,going to MIT doesn't gaurantee you an IB job. Also, there's programs like the SEO that help minority students get IB and MC internships. So you dont NEED to go to a prestigious school to get these jobs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, going to MIT as an undergraduate is the best way to get into MIT for graduate school. Some programs offer automatic masters admission to students with above-average GPAs. In others, admissions is simply easier because the student is already familiar with faculty on the admissions committee, and the admissions committee is familiar with the student's capabilities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Students with very good G.P.A's,research experience,etc. , from less prestigious schools have great shots at getting into prestigious grad schools</p>
<p>
[quote]
People aren't really thinking of those things when they choose to come, generally... one of the biggest benefits of going to school with a bunch of really smart people is just going to school with a bunch of really smart people.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are 'really smart people' in less prestigious schools too.</p>
<p>Well, yes, but nobody's saying that there's a dearth of intelligence at the less prestigious universities. As someone who spent significant time at both Rice and Illinois, though, there's a significant difference in the atmosphere of an undergraduate institution where there's the occasional brilliant classmate and a place where <em>everyone</em> you meet is brilliant in <em>something</em>. I was incredibly overwhelmed (in a good way!) when I got to Rice and found that every single person I talked to had a passion in something, and was absolutely brilliant at one thing or another. It was amazing. It made me a MUCH more motivated student, and, as goofy as it sounds, I was really inspired by my colleagues to work harder and further my own knowledge. I really didn't get that sense at UIUC, and though UIUC's got a pretty incredible program, the majority of the folks there are smart, but not crazy-genius brilliant. There are brilliant people there, for certain, but it's not the kind of universal passion for academics that you can feed off of and be inspired by.</p>
<p>I think that's the main difference between some of the top caliber schools and some of the schools with less prestige.</p>
<p>[aibarr] I find your remarks somewhat surprising considering that: (1) UIUC is far better ranked than Rice (especially in ECE), and (2) a least for Grad School, UIUC is actually more selective than Rice. In any case though, neither Rice nor UIUC compare to MIT in terms of prestige and student body quality.</p>
<p>The point is still valid. Being surrounded by mostly smart people forces you to raise your own standards.</p>
<p>a false assumption of "prestige"</p>
<p>"There are also top professors over here. I know two chem E professors who graduated from MIT."</p>
<p>there you have it. case closed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The point is still valid. Being surrounded by mostly smart people forces you to raise your own standards.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>which is why bill gates dropped out :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The point is still valid. Being surrounded by mostly smart people forces you to raise your own standards.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not necessarily. It could have the reverse effect. It really comes down to what type of learner you are. Some very intelligent people do not like the competitive atmosphere at places like MIT. I could see that type of atmosphere as potentially lowering the self-esteem of some students that would otherwise flourish in other universities.</p>
<p>And how many Bill Gates are there?</p>
<p>We're talking about averages here. No one's saying you HAVE to go to MIT to perform well. There are always exceptions. It just helps you learn to focus when your freshman dorm floor doesn't get drunk/high every night.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's access to undergrad research at Penn State.
[/quote]
There's access to undergrad research everywhere. The question is how much you have to grovel to get a research position -- at MIT, they practically grow on trees. That's the benefit of going to a small school that has a lot of researchers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Students with very good G.P.A's,research experience,etc. , from less prestigious schools have great shots at getting into prestigious grad schools
[/quote]
Sure. But students from MIT with not-very-good GPAs often have a better shot.</p>
<p>Case in point: My fiance has a 3.0 GPA in aerospace engineering (including a handful of Cs and a D). He didn't do so well on the GRE (720Q, rather below the average for MIT grad programs). He is still going to get into MIT's aero/astro master's program, because the professors in the department know him and love him and are impressed with his work. A kid from Nowheresville U with a 3.0 and 720Q wouldn't have a chance.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that a place like MIT (or Stanford, or Rice, or what have you) isn't the best place for everybody. But there are very real benefits to attending one of those schools -- people don't put in the work to make it through MIT because the people in their hometown are impressed by the name.</p>
<p>Well put, Mollie. Exactly the point I was trying to make, with that last paragraph.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some very intelligent people do not like the competitive atmosphere at places like MIT.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are many ways to describe the culture of MIT, but the term 'competitive atmosphere' is not one of them in the way that the adjective 'competitive' is usually used. The coursework is difficult, but I have never seen any evidence that students are actually competing against each other for grades. </p>
<p>The truth is, engineering and science courses are difficult anywhere. At least if you go to MIT, you enjoy the general aura of being known as smart. If you do poorly in engineering or science at a no-name school, people will just assume that you're stupid or lazy, because people will not be able to differentiate between the low admissions standards of a no-name school and the difficulty of the actual engineering program. </p>
<p>You also talk about the potential lowering of self-esteem of students in going to MIT. First off, this seems to be only a temporary effect, which disappears quickly (see below). Secondly, think about the loss of self-esteem in going to a no-name school, and doing poorly there (or even flunking out entirely). Now that's REALLY a loss of self-esteem. At least if you went to MIT and do poorly, you can at least console yourself psychologically by saying that at least you went to MIT. You don't even have THAT psychological crutch if you go to a no-name school. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Quote:
There's also the issue of non-engineering jobs -- looking at the starting salaries for engineers is slightly misleading, because so many MIT graduates choose to go into investment banking. Investment banks are actually the most frequent employers of new MIT graduates, rather than engineering firms. Even in engineering, some companies (most notably Google) will only hire from MIT and other top programs. </p>
<p>Yeah- this IMO, is the only 'benefit' of going to MIT. But not every 1) wants to do IB or MC or 2) has what it takes to get these jobs. Also,going to MIT doesn't gaurantee you an IB job. Also, there's programs like the SEO that help minority students get IB and MC internships. So you dont NEED to go to a prestigious school to get these jobs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First off, I don't think anybody ever said that you "need" to go to one of these schools to get one of these jobs. Heck, you almost never "need" to do anything at all to get anything. You don't "need" to exercise and watch your diet to enjoy good health. In theory, you could smoke every day since you were a teenager and still live to be 90. Heck, my grandfather did just that. But just because he managed to get away with it doesn't mean that I should take up smoking. </p>
<p>Second, molliebatmit only listed A FEW benefits from going to a school like MIT. They're far from the only one. The benefits are more expansive than just helping you to get the first job, although that is obviously extremely important. The general prestige of MIT travels with you throughout your entire career. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you will tend to be branded as "the MIT guy/gal", especially if you end up in a company that has few MIT grads (and most companies have few such grads). What that means is that rarely will your technical solutions be challenged, rarely will your technical knowledge be challenged. Many people will simply tend to assume that because you're from MIT, your technical knowledge is impeccable. That's a pretty powerful thing to have in your back pocket.</p>
<p>So that gets back to the 'loss' of self-esteem that a school like MIT may engender. Sure, you may possibly lose self-esteem while you're there. But you will gain it back extremely quickly when you get back in the working world when everybody automatically assumes that you have stellar technical chops just because of the MIT brand name. The power of the brand-name is extraordinarily useful at certain specific times. For example, I know there are small startup tech companies who will hire MIT people for no other reason but just to be able to SAY TO THEIR POTENTIAL INVESTORS that they have MIT people on their payroll. In other words, all they really want to do is "rent" the MIT brand name. {It's similar to the notion that if I was starting a tech company, I would actually pay Bill Gates or Steve Jobs to invest in my company just so that I could SAY that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have invested in my company, because that fact will tend to attract more investors.}</p>
<p>The other aspect is the networking. The truth is, career success is often times dictated less by what you know than by WHO you know. At MIT, you are going to meet an outstanding group of people who will tend to achieve great things. If you go to a no-name school, you will meet quite a few people who, frankly, will accomplish nothing. For example, the reason why Steve Ballmer became CEO of Microsoft is simple - he was Bill Gates's old poker-playing college buddy at Harvard. The reason that most of the very early employees of Google (who are now all multimillionaires) got into Google in the first place was because they were friends and acquaintances of Larry Page or Sergey Brin while at Stanford. </p>
<p>{This gets to a larger point which is that startups don't really "recruit", because they can't afford to hire an HR staff and can't afford to create a formal hiring process. What inevitably ends up happening is that the founders simply hire their friends or their friend's friends. Hence, if you want to join a tech startup in the hopes of becoming a multimillionaire before you're 30, then you have to go to where people tend to found lots of startups, and that tends to be at the premier tech universities like MIT, Stanford, Harvard, etc.} </p>
<p>The point is, there is no guarantee to success. You don't necessarily HAVE to do anything to achieve success. However, you can do things to improve the odds. Working out every day doesn't guarantee good health, but it improves the odds.</p>
<p>In my honest and humble opinion...</p>
<p>A degree from the Top-10 engineering schools may give you a better chance as far as your FIRST job, but experience and job-reputation beats big-name school and no experiences all day.</p>
<p>Cheaper too.</p>