<p>actually, this is my first time asking about/for an acquaintence... for a different sport than mine: boy/swimming/Ivy. He said he had 'verbaled' to this school last month (his junior Spring) as the coach promised to support him with an LL this fall. solid? typical?</p>
<p>You know, this is the situation where the Ivy League needs to institute the Likely Likely. Meaning, ‘it’s likely I’ll put you up for a likely letter when you’re a senior.’</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say that’s typical in swimming unless he’s an off-the-charts phenom. Solid? If the kid continues to swim up to expectations, there are no surprises in the grades and the coach stays at the school - it’s probably pretty solid.</p>
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<p>tallgirl - my “verbal” definition will vary depending on what college coach is making the verbal. Most traditional D1 verbal committments are less risky than an Ivy verbal committment purely due to the fact that Ivys have an extra level of complexity (admissions). An Ivy coach “promising” to support the recruit in the Admissions process is strong. However, I would have a contingency plan just in case whether it is D1, D1 Ivy or D3.</p>
<p>I know plenty of baseball players that have been through the Ivy recruiting process. One player on my son’s team had verballed to another Ivy (two years ago) but it fell through with that Ivy. I’m not sure of the details but it happens. His teammate had a backup plan. He played very well for us last year, and it is very much our gain. </p>
<p>Good luck to your friend.</p>
<p>For non-Ivy’s, it is typically where a student tells the coach, yes, I am coming here without signing anything. Just make sure the coach actually wants you before doing that…happened to a girl in DD’s class. She made a “verbal” to a school and the coach countered with “well, thanks, but we have to see if you can get accepted here before we make any commitment on our part”. Oops.</p>
<p>thanks you guys!!</p>
<p>Yes, my friend already had the coach take his scores and transcript (3/4 way thru junior year by last month) through one of this Ivy’s Admissions Officers (the one assigned to work with coaches on Likely letters) and Admissions said the coach was approved to issue the Likely come October. Now my friend just needs to have his application and recos in before then, so I am very happy for him. I hope my ride this Fall is as smooth!</p>
<p>Any red flags oh wise ones here? Should he still accept 1 or 2 other Official Visits as a contingency plan fenwaysouth mentioned above? (but later decline to attend them when LL is in hand on 10/1 so another swimmer can still have the OV)? Should he tell other coaches he “verbaled” and then probaly not get these OV backups?</p>
<p>Yes he should still go on the other official visits. Anything can happen and even a Likely isn’t a sure thing. Also, what if he visits another school and falls in love with the program or after visiting the Ivy decides he doesn’t really like the Ivy—or the money doesn’t work out to attend the Ivy?? A lot of things can happen so the old adage, “don’t count your chickens before they hatch” really applies.</p>
<p>Thank you Steve. He has already visited his top schools at which he will be/has been offered an OV> He felt hsi #1 was BY FAR his #1 on all levels, so that;s how he and that coach got into Likely Letters and then having the coach talk to Admissions.</p>
<p>I agree he should formally accept 1 or 2 other OVs as a back up, but when the LL comes through in early October, should he decline attending these OVs then? He feels kinda bad as he is 100% sure where he wants to go and doesn’t want his future coach hearing whipsers he is still OVing elsewhere.</p>
<p>thank you ALL :-)</p>
<p>For us the verbal was both ways, the coach said to my son I would like you to be on our team, we will give you $X to come here… son accepts. This was a D1 program, not IVY so my feeling is it is a verbal both ways. Coach commits to player and player commits to program.<br>
I am not familiar with how the Ivy’s work but I would tread lightly with the accepting other visits, if it is a solid verbal your friend should honor it, if he goes on other visits it will get back to school A and that won’t look so great to coach of school A if his recruit who is committed is visiting other schools…</p>
<p>Our D cancelled all other OV AFTER the LL arrived in the mail (mid Oct) 2 of the coaches were disappointed but thankful that she had been honest with them. They wished her luck and told her to please let them know if things didn’t work out. The 3rd OV coach was a real jerk (non ivy) about the cancellation. D had thought that this school would be her 2nd choice until the unpleasant conversation with the coach.</p>
<p>My take on OVs differs from the consensus here. In our kids’ cases, OVs weren’t necessary at all, and I’m not under a delusion that that is because they were somehow different or better than other recruits. Son did about 6 or 7 unofficials junior year, including showing scores and transcripts. Every coach seemed ready to offer support on the spot and there was no mention of a need for a subsequent senior year OV. When he told the coach at his first choice school (an Ivy) he would apply in September and wanted an early LL, it all happened quickly and easily. If the LL had not materialized there would have still been time for other OVs, but they wouldn’t have been necessary.</p>
<p>Similarly, our daughter didn’t take any OVs, and was supported and accepted ED at her (non-Ivy) first choice.</p>
<p>So, at least for our family, the idea that the athlete has to pass the OV “trial” is a myth.</p>
<p>I’m sure it would be the same for tallgirl’s friend. If he has the times, grades, and scores, and the coaches have liked him well enough on unofficials, I expect there’s no need to play the OV game.</p>
<p>I wanted to offer one comment based on what I am observing…which is that some top athletes are not engaged in the process so early and are flying under the radar. When they come to the attention of these various schools, though, I have no doubt but that the coaches will try hard to get them, and other athletes the coaches are enthusiastic about junior year will fall by the wayside. I would hate to see a student mentally committed to a program based on the enthusiasm of a coach end up empty-handed because a better backstroker/butterflyer/whatever popped up in September. Unofficial visits aren’t affordable or practical for everyone junior year, especially when you are doing APs, SATs, training 10 practices a week, etc. So some of these athletes may have had their heads in the sand and have not been engaged in the process until this summer, especially if it required personally showing up with transcripts and test scores in hand. For a lot of these great students, these details are hard to juggle along with all the schoolwork.</p>
<p>Just suggesting it is wise to proceed with caution when it comes to promises that are not in writing.</p>
<p>According to college swimming.com most of the commitments for HYP for the class of 2012 were made after September, 1 2011. Given that most of the top swimmers for 2013 will be going to Olympic trials and that all of the coaches from top colleges will be there I suspect some shifts in recruitment will occur after trials.</p>
<p>I have never heard of a verbal commitment being initiated by the student athlete. In our experience across multiple sports, it is the college making a verbal offer and the student verbally accepting. (Exactly as Mom2010 described it.) Also, like Sherpa, in our experience the OV has never been necessary because the verbal was offered and accepted before senior year (only AFTER many UOV) and then signing done on the early signing date in the Fall.</p>
<p>Agree that if your verbal is to a program like an Ivy where there is no guarantee of admission you must have some back up plans. But at the same time, a verbal should not even be accepted until you have done unofficial visit to both the school in question and already explored other options and are sure this is truly your top choice. In our experience, verbals do not have to be accepted “on the spot” and the PSA should be very sure of their decision.</p>
<p>Definitely be honest with coaches if you are exploring other options as “back up” (although, again, I believe the “exploration” should have been done before the verbal was accepted). In our experience, the coaches within a sport all know each other and they are going to find out, and if you are visiting school B while verbally committed to school A and don’t tell everybody, this will not look good to A or B, and C & D will likely hear about it as well ; )</p>
<p>A verbal is worth the paper it’s written on…</p>
<p>To those saying that an OV is not a necessity: Did your child spend significant time with the team during his/her unofficial visits? In my daughter’s case, her preference for schools changed significantly after her OVs. Those OVs are long enough and “intense” enough to give you a real feel for the personality of the team and the school. In some cases, my daughter’s impressions of schools were completely changed after her OVs. I think those trips present a great opportunity to see if the program is really what you think it is.</p>
<p>Carpediem^Yes, attended 2 games, was with team for pre-game meal, warm-up and film session after games. Attended 2 classes with players. Met with the professor who headed the department of her intended major. It was also her 3rd UOV. Spent a week with the team at camp (including rooming with a player) on her 2nd UOV.</p>
<p>Not saying that OV may not be a necessity if you didn’t get these from UOV, but many can get all this from UOV, making the OV unnecessary. Depends on your situation. And if you didn’t get this from UOV, you probably are not ready to verbal until an OV.</p>
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In my kids’ cases, no. But due to the “small world” nature of their niche sport, they knew a lot of the team members already, and details of coaches, programs, and team dynamics was easy to learn by asking among their peer athletes, club coaches, parents, etc…</p>
<p>In DD’s sport (softball) verbals are very serious business. The club team posts on their website the player and where she has verballed to. </p>
<p>It does happen the the NLI is not signed (we don’t have much exposure to LL’s with the current club teams), but that occurs for 2 reasons:
- Coach leaves (it does happen)
- Student/athlete decides to coast academically and play wise once the verbal is made.</p>
<p>8.5 times out of 10 the issue is #2.</p>
<p>Duke? Why the negativity on the verbals? I would have to disagree pending on the sport. If it is a tight knit community and a coach retracts on a verbal EVERYONE will know and that coach will be dead from then on for recruiting. I have never heard of a coach retracting on a verbal in my sons sport, however I do know of a very small number of athletes who did retract… Still very uncommon</p>
<p>It’s not negativity - it’s a reality. Until a recruit signs a LOI, he or she is fair game - even if he or she gives a verbal. Sure, it violates the “gentlemen rules” of recruiting and some coaches are notorious for engaging in such behavior, but it’s a business. Take football for example. Coaches will often accept more verbals than scholarships available, mainly because kids will string them along or because a kid is so great, they figure they’re worth being patient for. Some coaches even “oversign” a class. For example, #3 or #4 may give verbals early, but the coaches really like #1 and #2. At the 11th hour, #1 and #2 decides to sign with the program. Coaches must then decide to take all four or push #3 and #4 away from the program. It could be a case were #3 and #4 decide that they won’t beat out #1 and #2 and then decide to retract their offer or ask out of their LOI.
Again, it’s not negativity, but recruits really need to know the ins and outs of verbals and have a concept of the perspective of the coaching staff.</p>