By whom?
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Iâve never heard this before. Is this a Canadian thing?
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According to Wikipedia, it is!
the M.D. degree is, along with other first professional degrees, considered to be a bachelorâs degree-level qualification .
Medical school in Canada - Wikipedia.
Who knew!
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That Wikipedia page also says that âThe average tuition is $16,798 per year, with Ontario having the highest provincial average at $27,304. The level of debt among Canadian medical students upon graduation has received attention in the medical media.â
The level of debt has received attention in the medical media? That itâs unusually low?
Probably high by Canada standards, even though it is extremely low by US standards.
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Room and board on top, right?
Presumably.
Mental health among young people has deteriorated at an alarming rate across all populations, so another consideration, when looking at unhappy medical students (as OP is doing) is that itâs a reflection of a societal trend toward higher anxiety and depression. I mention this because when I was in medical school, most of my peers were âpretty happyâ and we had the same mix of people with pushy parents and supposedly pushy cultures etc. Lots of us were immigrantsâ kids. Lots of us had parents who wanted, or in some cases expected, us to become doctors. We shrugged about it or laughed about it, mostly, because we were having a good time, enjoying the academic content, and pretty excited about becoming doctors, even if we would have also been happy doing something else. It seems stress levels are up in high schools and colleges, too, compared to decades ago.
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Probably because the admission environment to college, medical school, etc. is much more competitive, because:
- Population growth has been greater than growth in space in schools, particularly the more desired ones.
- Labor markets expect higher education and credentials than in the past, inducing more people to attend college and professional schools.
- The cost of college and professional schools has increased, putting more students in the position of greater dependence on parent money, financial aid, and scholarships than in the past.
- The overall economy has been moving toward greater inequality (i.e. closer to âelite or bustâ), so there is increasing pressure to be elite rather than merely good.
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Stress levels, suicide, anxiety are also up among populations that have NOTHING to do with pushy parents and getting into an elite school.
Honestly, CC seems to believe that pressure to get into grad school is the source of all evil in society. Take a look at suicide rates among non-college attending 20 year olds before you insist that âelite or bustâ is the cause.
Some forms of mental illness have historically manifest themselves for people in their 20âs- college attending, non-college attending, US, overseas. Psychiatric researchers and neuroscientists are working hard to understand the biological/genetic origin of many of these diseases.
The pressure to get into med school is likely a trivial causeâŠ
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This was my point.
Yes, many people have mental health issues. Historically, however, rates of mental illness and drug abuse were higher among the disadvantaged, and far less commom among the upper middle class, including college students, particularly those at elite schools. The UMC mental illness rates have now equalled or even exceeded those of the poor, which suggests that the factors listed by UCBalumnus are indeed partially responsible
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Right. But Iâd argue that âpushy parentsâ were there even a generation ago, and the other stressors are what have increased.
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Indeed partially responsible? Thatâs a hypothesis. That is not the only difference in the generational cohorts. Social Media/Screen time leading to sleep disorders. Change in eating habits- a generation ago, most meals were eaten at home, the occasional meal out. In the year before covid, some researchers believe that teenagers and young adults ate more meals out than they did at home, and those meals were either junk-- or serial grazing (lots and lots of caffeinated drinks with lots and lots of sugar). Endocrine disrupters- present in pretty much everything these days, and likely the reason that puberty is starting early. Earlier puberty-- itself a factor for depression, particularly in young women. A massive increase in obesity in the population. Increased use of cannabis- way way up, and the THC levels are significantly higher than they were even back in the âpot headâ era of the late 60âs.
I wonât bore you with the other 30 things that have NOTHING to do with pushy parents- that researchers are exploring. But obesity, reduction in exercise, more hormones in food- these are likely greater factors than âthe push to get into an elite collegeâ.
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Those factors would affect everyone, not just UMC kids. So depression rates would rise for each demographic group, but should not have impacted the UMC kids disproportionately so that they now equal the disadvantaged illness rates.
Our town had a teen suicide cluster several years ago, just like Palo Alto and other towns have had. The families and friends of the deceased thought the factors mentioned by UCBalumnus were largely responsible. They may have been wrong, and no doubt social media has not helped. But I believe the successful young adults who observe there is crushing pressure among their peers.
By the way, those who ended their lives here were not obese, heavy cannabis users, early developers or junk food eaters. They were disproportionately female, attractive, affluent and cheerleaders-not the profile of the typical teen suicide historically.
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Suicides ARE clusters. My town had a cluster last year- senior in high school who was not going to college, he was enlisting in the military. And then two friends and an acquaintance- none of them college bound.
I get that nobody likes facts. But there is a reason that most news stories about a suicide now post the phone number of a hotline-- so that if the story is triggering, someone can reach out for help. So it is no surprise that the first suicide of an attractive and affluent cheerleader is going to have OTHER attractive and affluent cheerleaders-- thatâs her peer groupâŠ
These are all tragedies. But itâs important to look at the big picture and the data. The researchers who study suicide AND suicidal ideation are looking at dozens and dozens of possible causes and triggers (access to alcohol and guns are two identified and much studied factors) many of which defy the âupper middle class kid experiencing parental and societal pressure to succeedâ.
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I accompanied my student on a campus visit this month in which the dean who spoke to the group mentioned this.
He spoke about the attrition from one of the schoolâs popular majors as being a reflection of the students learning to follow their strengths and passions away from home rather than that of weed out classes or culture.
This volunteered information and perspective caused this college to become my studentâs top private college choice. That campus culture appeals to her.
Her other top choices are all public colleges with similar cultures in her choice major.
It can be difficult to watch your student gravitate towards a major with low employment prospects, but students should be encouraged to follow their strengths which usually accompany their interests. There are careers with good career prospects that fit all types of strengths. Some of them take more research to find.
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As two engineers, DH and I werenât thrilled with our daughterâs choice of art history and photography as majors. But you know what? She got a real job, photographing food for a supermarket. She doesnât make a lot but she has great benefits and is happy. She also works occasionally for a local museum, helping them put up and take down exhibits. She just put on a special art show, paid for with a state grant she applied for and won. Sheâs playing keyboard in a band and figured out how to get herself on Spotify. I think she has a rich life at 25 and we are very proud of her.
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