<p>I don't understand this then, who is getting the aid at these colleges? If the middle income cannot afford to attend because many are not eligible for aid and refuse to graduate with enormous debt and the lower income who may not have access to better schools and good ec's are unable to attend then are only the wealthy attending?</p>
<p>Your statement is illogical. People can buy those material items-clothes, cars, and even castles- because they have earned money (whether through a reputable means or not). We, that is students, who have worked arduously throughout high school, have prepared rigorously for exams, and withstood the trials of high school deserve to be able to attend an institution that suits our situation and is not a mere settlement due to socioeconomic discrimination and pretentiousness of the utmost form. College should be different; unlike the clothes one wears or the type of car one drives, because it is not seemingly insignificant. College offers the most vital and crucial commodity: knowledge. No one should be denied of that: no one!</p>
<p>I don't care if you are a CC celebrity NorthStarmom, I would prefer that you don't patronize me from your throne of financial righteousness.</p>
<p>No-- the lower income students get in b/c the adcoms understand their situation (sometimes), and give them financial aid. Either that or the go to a good state school (maybe an honors program) and work their way through college. The middle classers are mostly in debt, and willing to be in it b/c they are used to it. Apparently americans are like spending 5% more than they earn in a year-- something crazy like that.</p>
<p>And the weathy are attending, though they are sometimes left out in the cold b/c students with more interesting situations are taking their place b/c they add diversity.</p>
<p>Basically, there are downfalls to being a part of any class.</p>
<p>qwilde-- I completely agree with you, though this is most likely because I favor the utopian form of marxism, which in the world, is not actually possible. Free knowledge is basically a human right, but so is freedom of any sort, which is not present in many parts of the world.</p>
<p>Be willing to go ED and be in debt if need be or don't go ED-- I'm serious... don't try to be a rebel and reject the way of things, because it will most likely blow up in your face. I understand where you're coming from, but a binding agreement is a binding agreement. If you don't have a good enough reason to break it (good enough in their eyes, that is) then you basically are screwed if you decide to do just that.</p>
<p>"I completely agree with you, though this is most likely because I favor the utopian form of marxism, which in the world, is not actually possible. Free knowledge is basically a human right, but so is freedom of any sort, which is not present in many parts of the world."</p>
<p>Yes, I think I have been listening to John Lennon too much lately :). I'm British though, so I am a semi-socialist at heart.</p>
<p>"don't try to be a rebel and reject the way of things, because it will most likely blow up in your face."</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I have learned this lesson the "hardway" on numerous occasions.</p>
<p>"Be willing to go ED and be in debt if need be or don't go ED"</p>
<p>Yes, I am expecting to be in debt. Around $20,000-60,000, but no more because I want to attend law school (and I shouldn't have to loan anymore money than that to finance an undergraduate education).</p>
<p>"College offers the most vital and crucial commodity: knowledge. No one should be denied of that: no one!"</p>
<p>In the U.S., there are so many colleges that it is possible for virtually any bright person to get to college if they are so motivated.</p>
<p>Does this mean that any brilliant person is guaranteed to get into HPYS or is guaranteed to be able to afford that? No. It does mean, however, that they can get a college education, something that is not available to many brilliant people in other countries.</p>
<p>Should they have to go to a third or second tier college does that mean that their lives are ruined or they will get a horrible education:? Not at all. There are self made millionaires, CEOs and esteemed people in a variety of fields who didn't got to places like HPYS.</p>
<p>In many instances, the teaching colleges (often CCs or third tier colleges) provide better classroom experinces than do the nation's top colleges. Why?At the very top national institutions, professors keep their jobs due to their research. At the teaching institutions, professors are valued much more for their teaching abilities.</p>
<p>When it comes to things like cars, clothes, houses -- people do not get what they may deserve due to their brilliance and hard work. People who inherit wealth may be able to afford far more expensive things than do people who work very hard and make important contributions to society.</p>
<p>Just because one is smart and works hard doesn't mean that somehow one is owed a top of the line education or anything else.</p>
<p>Check out this thread by a student who applied ED to 2 schools, both of which accepted him: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=285946%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=285946</a></p>
<p>College is free in France</p>
<p>Anytime you rely on your ability to "negate a contract" you are taking on sizeable risk. Your future in law school my touch on that fact.</p>
<p>"In the U.S., there are so many colleges that it is possible for virtually any bright person to get to college if they are so motivated."</p>
<p>What you are proposing, however, is a system of irreducible regression. If students have to keep "settling" for schools, the system will eventually reach a point where a student can't "settle" any further down. Soon applicants with 1400 SAT 3.8 GPA will be competing for junior community colleges; according to your beliefs of course.</p>
<p>"In many instances, the teaching colleges (often CCs or third tier colleges) provide better classroom experiences than do the nation's top colleges."</p>
<p>This statement is absolutely fallacious and if you believe such, then you are evidently delusional. Community Colleges and third tier colleges do not provide better classroom experiences than top colleges in any manner what so ever (professors may be more accessible, but most are incompetent...or at least that I have met). Although I don't truly support national rankings, universities are ranked higher than others for a purpose: they offer more available resources, more opportunities, a more intelligent student body, and more experienced and renowned professors.</p>
<p>"Just because one is smart and works hard doesn't mean that somehow one is owed a top of the line education or anything else"</p>
<p>If you actually believe this then I am truly sorry for you. You seem to subscribe to a belief of social Darwinism (I do hate that term as it misrepresents Darwin and his accomplishments).Everyone is owed a decent education.</p>
<p>"There are self made millionaires, CEOs and esteemed people in a variety of fields who didn't got to places like HPYS."</p>
<p>You are assuming that the sole reason that students attend college is to reap more money. This is why so many students crash and burn: they attend college for the wrong reason. I do not want to be a millionaire. I just want to learn; I want to learn all that I can.</p>
<p>"When it comes to things like cars, clothes, houses -- people do not get what they may deserve due to their brilliance and hard work. People who inherit wealth may be able to afford far more expensive things than do people who work very hard and make important contributions to society"</p>
<p>Unless pertaining to royalty, the wealth people inherit will only go so far. They will eventually have to make good use of their money if they want to continue to sustain their opulent and lavish lifestyle.</p>
<p>"something that is not available to many brilliant people in other countries"</p>
<p>This statement seethes with American arrogance. If you ventured out into the world you would actually discover that most countries aren't destitute and impoversihed, as some condescending Americans superiorly like to believe.</p>
<p>“didn't got to places like HPYS."
I hate to seem pompous, but did you attend a third tier college?</p>
<p>"Check out this thread by a student who applied ED to 2 schools, both of which accepted him:"</p>
<p>Yes, I read that earlier. How does this apply to us though?</p>
<p>"Anytime you rely on your ability to "negate a contract" you are taking on sizeable risk. Your future in law school my touch on that fact."</p>
<p>I understand the ramifications, but ultimatley I am not relying on negating my contract. I will only do so under dire constraints. I am willing to be in debt; just not $140,000 worth. Also, if you want to be technical since I haven't reached the age of majority, I can negate contracts that don't involve necessities-food, shelter, etc.</p>
<p>If you're already thinking that you may have to negate your ED contract, you should apply ED.
"Also, if you want to be technical since I haven't reached the age of majority, I can negate contracts that don't involve necessities-food, shelter, etc."</p>
<p>Sure, that's true. I have never heard of a college suiing over a person who backed out of ED. The harm that can be done is harm to your reputation. The world of college admissions is small. The harm to reputation may even hurt you when you apply to grad school.</p>
<p>If $ is a consideration, realize that if you can get into an excellent school ED, you can probably get excellent merit aid from lesser or even sometimes equivalent schools depending on what you have to offer. It's far better to not apply ED so you can compare offers. I know, for instance, a student who turned down Harvard for a full ride package from another first tier school that included paid international internships each summer. </p>
<p>Even a relatively good financial aid package from your ED school may pale in comparison to other packages that you may be offered (sometimes colleges make such offers based on NM results, and send students letters in the fall offering full tuition, laptops and other things. This happened to my S: A representative from a college showed up at his h.s. in Sept. of his senior year and offered him a full ride plus laptop and other perks. ). Your ED offer also may pale in comparison to possibilities that you learn about after that acceptance.</p>
<p>Qwilde:</p>
<p>Colleges also do not owe admissions to anyone. I do not think that there is an overriding connection between where you go to school and how much money you will make after graduation. Too many other factors are involved.</p>
<p>There are alot of good schools out there that aren't HYP. In fact you can get a very good education at lots of public universities. It all dependes on how hard you want to work. </p>
<p>Even though schools might be need blind for admissions. There financial aid package might be something you can live with or not. If not, you can chose not to attend.</p>
<p>You are not owed a spot at any university because of your inability to pay. </p>
<p>There are also alot of fine public graduate schools and law schools.</p>
<p>You seem to be a private school snob, and feel thay owe you and education on what you think you can pay. Good Luck. Lots of us will be going to public universities, and we will not complain or whine that we should be able to go to an expensive private and come out with an amount of debt that we think they owe us.</p>
<p>"You are not owed a spot at any university because of your inability to pay." </p>
<p>You misconstrued my point. I was arguing that everyone deserves a good education, especially if they have worked hard for it, despite their socioeconomic status. Have we really become a society that will only allow the affluent to attend college?</p>
<p>"There are also alot of fine public graduate schools and law schools."</p>
<p>Yes, there are. I'm not a resident of any state though, so currently they are almost as expensive as private schools.</p>
<p>"You seem to be a private school snob, and feel thay owe you and education on what you think you can pay. Good Luck. Lots of us will be going to public universities."</p>
<p>How can I be a private school snob when my family income barely surpasses $12,000. Private schools require money. I have attended DOD schools throughout the world, which are hardly private-most have very few resources compared to public schools. Also, my dream school is UC Berkeley- I've wanted to attend there ever since I was kid; learning of the American civil rights movement in England.</p>
<p>"Colleges also do not owe admissions to anyone."
No, I never said that. This discussion is about financial aid not admission.</p>
<p>"It all dependes on how hard you want to work."</p>
<p>I have worked incredibly hard through school; I actually graduated at sixteen at the top of my class. Ultimately, that is my point though. I want to continue to work hard by attending a university where academics is important.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So does high school. And while every child in America is guaranteed a free public education, that does not mean that all schools are equal in quality. In fact, the quality of one's school often has a lot to do with one's socio-economic status. Please don't try to tell me that the public schools in Washington DC are of the same quality as the public schools in Arlington, VA. And if you don't like your kids' public school, if you can afford it you can send them to private schools. But not every child is guaranteed an Andover or Pingree education, even if they can get in. </p>
<p>And if aid is promised to all those who enter (the 100% need schools), where is that money going to come from? Colleges themselves cannot afford it. Or are you advocating that all colleges become free public institutions? Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. I's not gonna work. </p>
<p>One thing that you will need to change is your sense of entitlement. No one "deserves" anything in a capitalistic society. You are entitled to that which you earn, intellectually and monetarily. Nothing more.</p>
<p>"So does high school. And while every child in America is guaranteed a free public education, that does not mean that all schools are equal in quality. In fact, the quality of one's school often has a lot to do with one's socio-economic status. Please don't try to tell me that the public schools in Washington DC are of the same quality as the public schools in Arlington, VA. And if you don't like your kids' public school, if you can afford it you can send them to private schools. But not every child is guaranteed an Andover or Pingree education, even if they can get in."</p>
<p>I never said that every child receives an education equal in quality, which is a shame. I don't support the American school system, since it is unscrupulously based upon county taxes, but in fact support student vouchers. Don't make broad generalizations about me. Personally, I am aware that some schools only offer limited opportunites. At my high school only two AP and three honors classes were offered, which is partially why I decided to graduate early.</p>
<p>"if you can afford it you can send them to private schools"
Not everyone can, so evidently there is a grave injustice occuring.</p>
<p>"And if aid is promised to all those who enter (the 100% need schools), where is that money going to come from? Colleges themselves cannot afford it."</p>
<p>I wasn't asking for 100% aid. If you actually read the previous posts, instead of outwardly assuming, then you would notice that I am prepared to take out substantial loans.</p>
<p>"Or are you advocating that all colleges become free public institutions? Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. I's not gonna work. "</p>
<p>Apparently, you haven't been there done that. If you ever visited Europe you would be aware that students generally don't pay for college and if you they do it is only a minimal amount. Oxford, arguably one of the best universities in the world, for instance only charges about ?6,000.</p>
<p>"No one "deserves" anything in a capitalistic society"</p>
<p>Exactly, I have worked hard throughout high school. Should it be to my detriment; however, that I can't take out $50,000 loans annually-something that is not within my control?</p>
<p>It's all fine and dandy; I really don't mind outlandish personal attacks, but can we at least partially stay on topic?</p>
<p>Qwilde:</p>
<p>Your profile "In ignorant Bliss" says it all. I hope you applied to some schools where what you percive your debt leevel to be agrees with the schools you are applying to. Hopefully, like most of us you chose some financial mstches and safeties as well as academic matches and safeties.</p>