What happens to engineering drop outs?

@MMRose Yes, office hours are a good place to start. He’s remote learning, but maybe next year he’ll work up the courage. The more exposure to adults/teachers/humans, the better :slight_smile:

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My kid responds to links. Don’t do the work for him. But send him a link with the answers and it’s up to him to take the next step. You won’t be at college with him. Let him begin doing it now.

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@Knowsstuff Sounds easy! I’ve seen tutoring portals on college websites that look simple enough to use. Human-human contact is preferred (also harder for him), but still good to know that it’s available and easy at Big 10s. I just assumed he would walk around in total anonymity.

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Maybe. Not all schools are the same. Not all elite publics are the same. Not all the elite privates are the same. Large schools, though, have to spread their resouces over a larger number of students. For example, your kids’ professors knew your kids by their first names, but I bet they don’t know all kids they teach by their first names. Some kids take more initiative to get to know their professors and other kids don’t.

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@Knowsstuff Agree, links work well for us too. We often text within the same house :slight_smile:

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By far the 2 most common “engineering” majors at MIT are Computer Science and EE + Computer Science. These 2 majors compose nearly half of all MIT engineers. CS/software is a different entity from other fields of engineering, and throws off overall engineering average/median salary figures. For example, the 2018 median salary for Michigan grads was as follows. You’ll get very different results if you include CS/software and related fields as part of “engineering”, as was done in the MIT totals.

Computer Science – $101k
Other engineering fields that do not have the word “computer” in name – ~$74k (Environmental is outlier)

That said, MIT students do average a bit higher salaries than the other schools that have been discussed in non-software fields, which I expect largely relates to a combination of having a higher concentration of excellent students and more typically working in high cost of living regions.

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Totally agree but same at smaller schools. Think there has been many threads on this. Getting help is for the taking. Professor hours, TA /sections. Learning services. Peer to peer help. Science and math tutor help. I can go on. None of the above is going to the kids dorms knocking on the door and asking if they need help Math. All the student has to do is ask for help. This is at just about any school. The OP kid goes to a school already larger then some Lacs. It’s a very large school with equally large school campus. He will be fine. Not sure the OP will be😂 but I am positive the kid will be fine

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The MIT outcome survey I was referring to is not by major but by industry (i.e. an engineering graduate who works for a computer company wouldn’t be counted in the “engineering” category). In that class 2018 survey, the medium starting salary is $90k for engineering, $94k for computer and electrical engineering, and $115k for computer software engineering.
https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

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@Search2022 If his HS offers Office Hours or peer tutoring at all, isn’t it available this year virtually? You can remind him that it is often the best students who take advantage of office hours, just as much as the ones who are struggling.

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This is where some of the myth comes in. Except for football game days your not seeing 20-,50,000 students on any given day. He will pass probably less kids he sees now (when going to school live… Lol)… Hard to believe… My daughter from her small lac and I have seen this in person that there aren’t as many people walking around then you would think. He might pass less then 50 people daily if that. Game days… Different story. I really think you have something envisioned that just isn’t there… As an example at Michigan most first year classes are at Central Campus. Most of those classes are minutes away from each other walking.

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It’s unclear exactly what portion of what majors compose the “engineering” industry category and what minority of those positions involves SW-related work. If you instead use a common unit of measurement for all colleges such as sorting by major, then MIT grads are indeed a bit higher, but not as dramatic as suggested by some earlier posts. For example, CollegeScorecard numbers are below for Mechanical Engineering, which is MIT’s most popular non-CS related engineering major.

Mechanical Engineering Earnings (College Scorecard)
MIT – $79.6k
Michigan – $76.0k
Santa Clara – $74.6k
Rose Hulman – $72.6k
Purdue – $71.3k

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Older MIT career surveys had pay of graduates by major. Not sure why that is no longer reported.

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In terms of post-graduation starting salaries, I look at them this way:

  1. No firm would pay more for the same position regardless where the new hire went to school.

  2. However, certain higher paying positions tend to go to graduates of certain schools. Because there’re fewer such positions, they don’t affect the average starting salary as much.

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It could be that these days there’re more graduates who choose to work in an industry outside of one’s major, because of higher compensation, for example.

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I believe 2017 was the last year in which salary by course was reported. It includes both salary by course and salary by employment field . A summary is below and at https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/GSS2017.pdf . I only included engineering majors with a sample of at least 20 students and compared to Michigan for the same year.

2017 MIT Median Salary Survey: By Major
Computer Science + Eng – $107k
EE & Computer Science – $103k
Mech Eng – $73k
Chemical – $72.5k

2017 MIchigan Median Salary Survey: By Major
Computer Science – $100k
Chemical – $71k
Mech Eng – $70k

There was little difference between MIT and Michigan in Mechanical/Chemical, but a slightly higher difference in CS. Other schools show a similar pattern with CS having a greater difference by school than engineering. Part of this relates to the higher salary CS positions being concentrated in 3-4 regions of the United States (all very high cost of living areas), and different schools having different portion of students who choose to work in those 3-4 regions.

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I personally don’t know any that went to smaller schools but I believe that is more a reflection on the shear numbers of large schools in the area that provide many more perspective job candidates.

I have not personally seen where an engineering candidate has been given a disadvantage because of where they went to school. I have seen relationships with certain schools be advantageous because of contacts at those schools but that could also happen at smaller colleges.

I would probably focus more on fit in other areas rather than size.

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With a college GPA < 3.0 (any major, most industries), it is likely that a college applicant will have a more difficult time getting interviews than one with a college GPA >= 3.0 (same major, same industries and types of jobs targeted).

See page 29-30 of https://www.odu.edu/content/dam/odu/offices/cmc/docs/nace/2019-nace-job-outlook-survey.pdf . The median cutoff GPA was 3.0 for almost all industries. What is not said in that year’s survey is how common 3.0 is as a cutoff GPA, but there was a previous year which mentioned a very large percentage of employers using 3.0.

Note that the survey shows other resume characteristics that are valued on succeeding pages.

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So these are all pretty similar but getting to my point of cost of living. Some of this can be due to where the student ends up working. I would guess that an MIT graduate isn’t going to rural Idaho to work. Boston and East coast is usually going to pay more due to local and cost of living… Would be my guess also.

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It really depends on the campus and the situation. I know that 10,000 were supposed to pass one another on the main pedestrian thoroughfare at the busiest times of the day (basically, between 10am and 3pm…) at Penn State! My parents were gobsmacked by the crowds’ density - they sat down on a bench and waited for the young people to get to class :smiley:

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Yes, I mentioned something along those lines in regards to CS. CS salary stats are closely related to how large a portion of the class chooses to work in 3-4 high salary + high cost living areas, and the portion of the class that works in those areas is quite significant at all of the discussed schools. For example, among Purdue CS majors, the 2 most common locations of first job were California and Washington. I expect it’s even a higher percentage for Michigan and MIT. Unfortunately few such surveys provide a cross index of major + location, which makes it difficult to compare.

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