INJParent- I don’t disagree. But in my decades in corporate recruiting, I’ve seen “wanna-be engineers” ending up majoring in urban planning, agronomy, food science, economics, political science, psychology, public health/epidemiology, finance. These all have some aspects of applied math to them, with a healthy dose of problem-solving/project management (i.e. engineering like qualities) but not every college with strong STEM has strengths in some of these more interdisciplinary subjects. And I know kids who ended up transferring because after taking the two-course sequence their college offered in a “cool subject” they had tapped out.
So I’m ready to declare that the OP’s son is “highly unlikely” to major in something outside of STEM. Like most HS kids- he’s barely scratched the surface of a lot of interesting majors that may speak to his math/Lego skills but are not engineering- or theoretical physics.
I interviewed a young guy last year- urban planning major, started in engineering but fell in love with transportation management/urban grid development freshman year and never looked back. I asked him what “spoke to him” and he said it was his fascination with Legos and computer games/simulations… he finally found a discipline which he could embrace as a grownup (and earn a living at!).
@1NJParent Thanks fir making this distinction. From what I’ve observed, his passion lies in design. He likes hands on projects and spends his free time tinkering with legos and models (or designing worlds in Minecraft). He’s done some
Robotics. I could see him getting into some sort of 3D modeling.
On the theoretical side, he enjoys AP Bio, even without the labs (due to covid).
What I meant by “highly unlikely” outside of STEM isn’t about what OP’s son will ultimately do in his career. It’s about his choice, at least initially in college. Plenty of STEM students may eventually choose a career outside STEM, utilizing their training in both quantitative skills and scientific ways of thinking.
One school that my son looked at for CS 6 years ago where I was really impressed, he wasn’t so much, was RIT. I looked at it from an employer’s view and thought they did a ton of good stuff.
As far as party schools go, you can find that everywhere. But you will also find that those who don’t want to party can find a place too. Yep both Bucknell and Lehigh are very high on the top Party School lists. But, my daughter is going to Bucknell next year and I’m pretty sure she is strong enough to say no thanks if she wants. It isn’t a required class at any school. Have that hard talk with your kids before college, that will be way more effective than sheltering them from it. If they don’t want it, they can have a great time not partying at a party school. If you don’t want it, then maybe it’s time to let them grow up a little and face that test. They are going to have to do so, sooner or later.
@blossom Interesting, thank you! Can you please tell me more about “interesting majors that may speak to his math/Lego skills but are not engineering- or theoretical physics”? What kind of academic institution would provide these types of majors? If not engineering, what other departments could we explore?
I love your example of the transportation grid kid. THIS is exactly what I’m hoping happens for my child. He has very deep interests, but has not found his specific “adult/career” interest. I could see him applying his depth of interest to one niche field. He just needs to find one particular area that resonates with him.
I think your son will do well in college and you don’t need to be concerned about whether he can succeed in engineering (or CS). The next question I’d explore is whether he does better in a more challenging (but not necessarily less collaborative) environment based on his experience in high school.
Any big university (which I know is what you think he wouldn’t like) is going to have a huge college of Arts and Sciences, which is where both the more theoretical, math oriented majors are going to be, and the college of Engineering, which in many cases includes CS and other cases do not. There may also be a business school (for undergrads) where disciplines like supply chain management (very math, very hands on as well), finance (math, not so much hands on), operations research, etc. live. Think about going to a grocery store or a bank- is there one line which you wait in, which then funnels you to the next available cashier/teller, or are there multiple lines which you, the customer have to choose? That’s a classic operations research issue- optimizing customer service, minimizing wait times, etc. and has a LOT of practical applications in the business world, and some neat theoretical problems as well. Hint- if you are at a highway rest stop and have to choose whether to turn right to a stall of toilets, or turn left- turn left. A majority of people are right handed, their instinct is to usually turn to their dominant side. But the toilets are cleaned with the same frequency, so the toilets on the left which are used significantly less often but get cleaned on the same schedule as the right hand toilets are MUCH CLEANER on average.
Can you get your hands on a course catalogue- pick a random state- Wisconsin? Michigan? and have your son browse through it. Maybe he’s never thought about forensic science- and not just the stuff on TV. There are forensic anthropologists who are called in when an old burial site is uncovered while a highway is being expanded. Maybe he’s never thought about how apples are grown- fantastic article in the New Yorker a few years ago about the genetics of the apple growing business (I read it three times- it was like a thriller except the lead character was an apple). A lot of seed and food technology these days is math plus hands on tinkering. Cyber security? A good marriage of CS, math and practicality. Not just the algorithm stuff, also psychology. How do you design a log in protocol so that people just don’t use their birthdays (very easy to fake, steal, etc.) and give up? How do you create a two step verification process that’s easy enough to use but not so easy that any hacker with an 8th grade education can steal millions of identities over a weekend?
There are all sorts of hands-on, tinkerer types out there. Some are engineers. Some thought they wanted to be engineers until they fell into something else. Some are STILL engineers!
Great question! I suspect there are pros & cons for different types of environments.
Generally, he’s been successful in a challenging high school, but it’s been overwhelming and he needs adequate time to decompress. He prefers depth over breadth and isn’t involved with a million activities. Academically, he asked to move up levels and been successful in doing so. In his least challenging class, he applies the least amount of effort. He has not become a leader or superstar in this class. In his challenging classes, he works hard.
It seems like he would do well in a challenging, but supportive environment, one that isn’t cut-throat competitive or academically out of his league.
@blossom …and some are grown men with deep, meaningful hobbies A local architect in our town recently put his house on the MLS. The house was a stunning example of his design work, but the attic, oh the attic, was home to a complex maze of model railroads, including tracks that ran up and down the walls and all over the ceiling. I’m just hoping my kid is able to channel his interests into a paying job and doesn’t end up in MY attic
So yes, thank you for the advice. I’ll see what I can do about a course catalog and maybe there will be a class that pops out at him. Maybe a large university is the way to go? Ha, back to the size question.
Note that transportation system design is also a subarea of civil engineering. A somewhat related area of logistics is also something that industrial engineers or operations researchers do (people whose college major was applied math or statistics also do that).
@blossom I should mention that he completed an extensive strength-based assessment (You Science). It generated 30 some “match” careers… all were subsets of engineering except archaeologist and cyber security
A lot of STEM kids are like that. Some of the most challenging places are also among the most collaborative. At those places, few are on the pre-med track and students are learning sciences and engineering for the love of them. Kids tend to do their best when they’re among their peers. A lot of learning in college comes from kids collaborate with and challenge each other.
There’re certainly career opportunities in more specialized areas. However, too much specialization too early without a broad and solid foundation will often limit a student’s potential. Specialized knowledge can be acquired later if the student is already well educated in math, sciences, etc. The reverse is much more difficult, if not impossible.
If he likes design and bio, he may want to look into biomedical engineering or related fields.
As for possibilities, I recommend looking at the list of majors at ASU. They have 25 undergraduate engineering programs alone (Fulton) and lots of easy links to help explore the possibilities. They have majors I’ve never heard of before both inside and outside of engineering areas.
If he finds something that sounds of interest he can then explore where else may have that or something similar.
As my D is considering ASU (Fulton), we have been doing the admitted student information sessions, plus watched the Amazon prime show that featured ASU. A number of students talked about being able to tailor their degree somewhat to a niche they found that really interests them. One student talked about going to white hat hacking competitions. I’m sure there are other places that have similar experiences, but I have not gotten that same sense from her other options at this point.
This. Nothing can replace a solid foundation- and not just math and science. My company spends millions of dollars training employees, with customized programs on technical skills, soft skills, specialized knowledge, etc. We can teach almost anything- as long as our employees walk in with core verbal/reading comprehension skills! If you can read a dense document and summarize the three main points- bingo. And sadly- this is not a skill that every college graduate has…
I wasn’t suggesting that the OP’s son major in Supply Chain. Just that assuming that his choices are Physics or Engineering is a binary model which doesn’t reflect reality… and for an undecided kid, being in a place with lots of options (i.e. big university) might help him find his interests better than something smaller (i.e. Olin).
One example of this is what I got my master’s degree in: Operations Research. This is approximately applied mathematical techniques for solving quantitative problems. Some math and some computer science are useful things to know going in.
Computer science is of course another option. Artificial Intelligence and Data Science are other options.
-a broad base/solid foundation in science and math
-late® specialization
-ease of changing majors/programs
-wide availability of specialized stem areas to explore
-focus on thinking and communication skills
-challenging, but collaborative environment
-hands-on experiences
-readily available supports
A local architect in our town recently put his house on the MLS. The house was a stunning example of his design work, but the attic, oh the attic, was home to a complex maze of model railroads, including tracks that ran up and down the walls and all over the ceiling. I’m just hoping my kid is able to channel his interests into a paying job and doesn’t end up in MY attic 