What if kids were limited to 6 applications?

<p>ilovetoquilt - my D has ONE requirement - that the school offer a BFA or BM in musical theatre. Beyond that, size, location, Greek/non Greek, whatever really doesn’t matter. These kids eat, drink, breathe musical theatre. She has a couple of big publics, lots of small privates; urban, suburban, rural; midwest, northeast, southeast, Texas; you might think she was all over the place and didn’t know what she wants. But that’s the point. She does know exactly what she wants and can get it at any of these schools. And you can’t tell me that there aren’t others out there going for performance based degrees or specialty majors/minors or WHATEVER who don’t feel the same way. Academically, she should be accepted at ALL of the schools on her list. But that isn’t the same as making it through the audition process. </p>

<p>Your kid didn’t have to go through this process? Good for them - and for you. But don’t judge those kids who have to follow a different path to get where they want to go.</p>

<p>

I just don’t think this is so. My son was going to attend the best school (for him) that took him, out of the 12 he applied to. He had a pretty good idea of the rank order from the beginning.</p>

<p>

I don’t think you quite get the strategy for a kid who is shooting for highly selective schools. Of course, if he gets into his top choice, he drops the rest. This is different from the kid who’s looking to compare aid offers.</p>

<p>[quite] I have read on this site hundreds of posts of, oh son got in everywhere, and we immediately dumped all the schools but his top 2. Why did he even apply to schools he wouldn’t consider going to?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Because he WOULD consider them, if he didn’t get into his favorite.</p>

<p>I can tell you that my friend whose son is in MT, would NOT have been happy in a small rural school, even if it had an amazing MT program. He is so into MT that he wanted to be in a big city that had lots of other schools doing productions, where broadway shows came through, and where he could audition or work behind the scenes and get some real world experience, so yes, having a school with his major was uber important, but location, other programs, the city, the rest of the school, dorms, etc also mattered. he would have been miserable in a small school.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I have a friend whose daughter really wanted a school with a very outdoorsy feel and choice Lewis and Clark. Could she have survived Reed, no. Similar locations, similar size, but totally different vibe.</p>

<p>And a sense a whole lot of justification going on for long lists of schools</p>

<p>And maybe you know a kid who would be equally happy in Montana as Manhattan, if the school were equal.</p>

<p>And it isn’t about precision tailoring. You are trying to say that my Ds were all fussy and picky. They weren’t, they just were pretty honest with themselves.</p>

<p>I still would love to see the list of those 19 schools. </p>

<p>And you can all deny deny deny that those things I listed matter to lots of kids, but after a year, they will matter. If you go to a school, MT or not, that has a large Greek presence, like it or not, that is felt in every bone of that school.</p>

<p>If you go to a school that is a suitcase school. MT major or not, and the school feels empty, it will matter.</p>

<p>If you are a kid that likes museums, or concerts, and you go to a school where its difficult to get there, MT major or not, you will get bored.</p>

<p>MT aren’t the only kids that live and breath their major. Far from it. </p>

<p>I just get a sense that some applicants are looking at the trees and not the forest, or the forest and not the trees, while you need to really look and see both.</p>

<p>My Ds knew that certain things in a school, no matter the major, location etc that would not make it work. And to say, well, so long as they have this major, location, size, etc are not important is really being naive.</p>

<p>Its is like saying, well, I will date a guy who plays guitar, cause I LOVE guitar players, but, eh, the rest doesn’t matter. Is that how you want your daughter to look at colleges?</p>

<p>And yes, dating and the college hunt are very similar. </p>

<p>GO ahead, apply to 15, 19 schools. It doesn’t matter to me one bit. My kids are in the process anymore. I just lived through it. And watched the process.</p>

<p>I just don’t think its prodcutve to have a thread that all about apply anywhere you want, go for all the schools you want, 19 is a great number!! Don’t “limit” yourselves! Don’t let anyone tell you what to do! Be free!! Be wild!!</p>

<p>I think that as parents, we need to open our kids eyes to the WHOLE college experience, remind our kids that they are WHOLE human beings, not just MT majors. (on that note, what if the MT majors don’t get the parts? and they won’t- is the rest of the school okay- back to my friend whose son in a MT major, as time went on, he is a junior now, it got tougher to get the good parts, etc, his friends were not so gong how on the program because it was harder, they were not the stars like they were used to, and sure, it was fun being part of the program, but a certain weeding out process was happening, and if you didn’t like that school, and the rest of the kids and the classes, well). </p>

<p>Its like the kid who gets into a school to play soccer. Say the soccer program is AWESOME, it is fantasy camp every day. Say you get hurt. Then what. If the school itself isn’t a good match, a relatively good fit, you wil not succeed.</p>

<p>Same with a MT major, you can be in one amazing program, but if oyu don’t make the cut down the road, or the rest of the classes and teachers, and dorms, and campus aren’t good, you won’t last.</p>

<p>You have to look at a school with the assumption the kid will change their major, wash out of their major, discover a whole knew major. You have to look at a school and see that there are thousands of other people there, not just the ones in the science department.</p>

<p>If my kid was in MT, I would make sure that the rest of the school- location, etc was a good match, just in case MT didn’t work out. Cause it may well not.</p>

<p>You can say some of the things I listed are trivial, silly, etc., but, look at your own lives, your own friends, your own adult choices.</p>

<p>Also, I don’t know many adults who would say, sure, same job, put me in Texas who would also say, put me in Boston. Neither is bad nor good, but most adults I know really have a preference and see the world beyond their jobs. They see community, housing, transportation, and narrow down their lists hoping to get 75% of what they need or want.</p>

<p>I just don’t know any kids who seem to care so little about their college choices that one of 19 schools is fine, that location doesn’t matter, that size doesn’t matter, that amenities don’t matter, that transporation doesn’t matter, that having some nice restraurants to eat at once in a while doesn’t matter, that having friendships outside of one’s major doesn’t matter, that having housing doens’t matter.</p>

<p>To most adults, those things matter, and matter alot because they see beyond their little pond. And see that they will be someplace for 4 years, and being able to get to a hill and hike, while at this moment of filling out an application may seem silly and trivial, it will matter.</p>

<p>My Ds did their applications looking at their wholeselves, not not one aspect of who they are. They looked at the future, not just the young adult they are now. They looked to expand their worlds, the types of people they hang out with, not just who wants to study the same thing.</p>

<p>but, hey thats the “tailored” way of looking at colleges I guess.</p>

<p>Uh oh, this thread may have become a spam magnet. Hopefully the spam is a rogue post and will be deleted (I reported it-- hope its gone soon, though its content is pretty entertaining. Fancy rats??? LOL</p>

<p>Anyway, I digress.
Quantmech- you said

</p>

<p>Maybe in the ideal world, a better solution is having better trained college counselors for all HS students. That would be wonderful. With both our first and second s, we were fortunate to have great counseling and guidance, and with all our criteria we were able to get that list tight and focused. And younger s didnt have a lot of requirements, the way older s did. Did we learn from the first time around? Sure. Would we have done things differently? Maybe. Would we have added more schools to the list? Doubtful.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m no fan of applying to a long list of schools, but I’m also curious what a list of only 5 schools looks like. ilovetoquilt, where did your D’s apply? </p>

<p>D1 will be applying to at least 3 UCs in addition to whatever others make her eventual list, so her list will definitely be longer than 5. She isn’t pursuing T20s or aid (though merit would be welcome), so she won’t be applying to a larger number of schools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>No I don’t. I think what many of us are trying to say here is that our kids are not your kids and you can’t truly know our decision making process any better than we can know yours. Okay - so location mattered to your friend’s son. Great. But my D works in theatres in an urban area now. She can come home and do that in the summer. She sees shows in New York now. She doesn’t need that at college. So I repeat - I truly believe she can be happy in a variety of environments as long as she is pursuing her dream. And I am not going to try and get her to base her decision on “what if” you wash out of your major. </p>

<p>So, no more posts for me here. I think I’ve done my best to explain my point of view. Best of luck to all trying to come up with their lists and make it through the application process successfully :)</p>

<p>I’ll share my son’s list of 12, if anybody is interested, and explain it. He applied to Yale (SCEA), Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, Penn, Duke, Chicago, Tufts, Emory, Pitt, and GWU. His criteria were that he wanted a highly talented student body, a music program that fit certain parameters, and it shouldn’t be too small or too remote. He would have been happy going to all of them except the safeties, and would have been satisfied with Pitt. He was fortunate to get into Yale SCEA. Who can tell me which ones he should have dropped from the list? If he had been rejected from Yale SCEA, does that mean that he wouldn’t have gotten into Harvard, Princeton or Columbia? Who can say?</p>

<p>I’m not so sure mature adults can easily narrow down their choices. Back when DH and I were both looking for academic jobs close enough that we could actually live together, we were willing to consider living just about anywhere, and working at just about any decent research university. I would say there were at least 50 schools we would have considered.</p>

<p>I sure wouldn’t have turned down Penn State just because they have cows, or Columbia because it was in a city, if either of those institutions offered us each jobs in our fields.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So? That doesn’t preclude the fact that some kids could indeed be just as happy in an urban or a rural school, or a large or a small school. </p>

<p>I also think one can convince oneself one “can’t be happy” in certain circumstances and I don’t think that’s a good thing.</p>

<p>I must a glutton for punishment 'cause here I go again.</p>

<p>ilovetoquilt, I don’t believe anyone called your dds fussy or picky, but if you want to infer that then the reverse could certainly be true that you are calling our kids:</p>

<p>1) trophy hunters
2) lazy
3) indecisive
4) lacking standards</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>I hope you’re not saying that.</p>

<p>ETA: And there’s a big Boston-to-Austin pipeline, so I don’t agree with your example.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>He had his reaches and presumably he had some matches / safeties with Pitt and GWU. Don’t see the problem, and don’t see why he should have arbitrarily dropped any of the reach schools. I know personally I could have been happy at either Princeton or Penn even though both schools have very different feels. Shrug.</p>

<p>I’ll pipe once again for what it is worth. A few things…</p>

<p>Ilovetoquilt…while I agree with you on the points about nobody needing 19 schools, I disagree with your points in reference to MT majors (who I believe also don’t need 19 schools of course). I don’t think you truly get what applying to a BFA program means. It is a commitment to a very specialized degree program that usually makes up 3/4’s of your entire program at the college. It is NOT like applying for a BA degree where one may change majors and is not even declaring or committing to a major upon applying. In fact, selecting a college for a BFA in MT is about SELECTING THE PROGRAM much much much more than SELECTING THE COLLEGE ITSELF. The typical college selection criteria such as size, location, distance from home, etc. etc. are much more secondary for a BFA applicant (they may be considered but are more minor considerations) and the MT program itself is what is being selected. As well, there are a finite number of BFA in MT programs in the country (not sure the total, but let’s say 40) compared to most students who can select colleges from an array of hundreds of options. One must go where the programs are located and in whatever university they are located in. For example, my D applied to the BFA in MT at Ithaca, a college she would never consider if not for the BFA program. The BFA program is one of the most competitive ones in this field but she was over qualified academically speaking and the college itself didn’t fit her other criteria as much but the BFA program is excellent. A BFA student spends the majority of their time involved in the BFA program. The selection criteria to pick a college is VERY different than a BA candidate (I have had two kids, one of each in my family). You talk about if you don’t like the major, be sure to like the rest of the school if you change majors. I would agree if we were talking of a BA major where changing majors is the norm. A student who even has a little inkling that they might change majors, is not an appropriate candidate to commit to a BFA program in the first place. You are talking about a MT major as an analogy to any major and it is not if it is a BFA degree program. I would agree with you if we were talking of a BA one. My D applied to some of the top BFA in MT programs in the country but her list was very very different than schools she may have considered had she been applying to any major or thought she might change majors, etc. A BFA applicant is applying to a professional degree program and must be ready to commit. The best programs in the country are in a variety of settings…such as NYU, U of Cincinnati, CMU, UMich, Ithaca, Syracuse, etc. It is about picking the program. Also, the acceptance rates to all the BFA in MT programs are between 2-9% and so such a candidate would be very chancy to only have six schools. I do not recommend that. My D had 8 but that is less than most of the MT applicants I know actually. That said, I don’t think anyone needs more than 12. </p>

<p>I agree with jym that the iissue with andison was not the quantity of schools on his list but rather the balance of his list which was primarily reach schools, hardly any match schools and no safety. There is a huge lesson to be learned there. No matter what number you apply to, one should have a balanced list of odds…reach, match, safety…be it 7 schools or 13 schools. </p>

<p>While I do think everyone is free to make their own decisions how many schools to apply to and I think circumstances can vary such as specialized degree programs, elite college admissions, chasing merit aid, needing need based aid and so on which means that one student’s length of list should vary from the next student’s…However, I have yet to see a situation where 17 or 19 schools are necessary at all. For example, I agree with others that Curm’s D would have had the same successful outcome with several options in spring had she had 12 schools and not 17. I believe that even someone who must get merit aid (and who is a very good student) or need based aid, can devise a balanced list that will yield results with no more than 12 schools. It is about creating a balanced list that should yield options. More are not needed (though one is free to do it if they wish). </p>

<p>I happen to think there are several drawbacks to very long college lists (beyond 12 or so). For instance, the efforts on each application, and to do a really good one tailored to that college, will have to be diluted…or I don’t know how one could put the kind of effort my kids put into individual apps if they had 17 or 19 AND still get high grades at school AND be heavily involved in ECs and so on. Something would have to give. My kids were busy morning, noon and night seven days per week with school and activities and doing 8 apps really well (and one kid had to attend 8 college auditions too). And there are interviews to be done as well. </p>

<p>Another drawback is that it can cost quite a bit to apply to that many with the fees involved. It would be hard to visit 19 schools ahead of time as well. </p>

<p>I think another drawback is that it delays the student from narrowing the list and making some choices until April when they then have one month to decide. I can understand finding 19 schools that they like and would be interested in applying to but at some point, the list needs to be refined and narrowed and to not even refine it down to about 12 or less in the fall, is putting off the important weighing and comparing and contrasting and deciding. It has to be done at some point. It makes sense to tweak and narrow the list some by fall and then see the options in spring and narrow some more and pick a school to attend. I don’t think it helps at that point with a month to go to be looking at 15 acceptances and figuring out which is the best fit, etc. </p>

<p>I also agree with others that I would not opt to apply to a school (example was given of Yale with a member here) if the student had no intention of attending or the family knew that the aid package would never meet their bottom line and they needed merit aid and not just need based aid. </p>

<p>That said, I think these are individual decisions. I just would not typically advise going about it that way but would never tell someone (even my own students) how many they could apply to. But a well balanced list that will yield results or even aid, CAN be accomplished with less than 12 schools. I can’t think of any situation that can come up with reasons why more were truly NEEDED, even if they WANTED it which is their perogative of course. I DO believe there are situations where some students need more schools than others. A BFA in MT applicant can’t get by with six, sorry…not feasible. A student who doesn’t need aid and is a good solid student applying for liberal arts, could get by with six, I’m sure. I personally believe that the range of situations out there means MOST students should be able to create a balanced list that will yield results if they apply to between 8-12 schools. Nobody had to justify to anyone why they applied to 19, but I do not believe it was necessary to do so. I believe those students would have had enough options in spring had they had a realistic and balanced list under 12. I certainly can understand finding 19 schools of interest! It is just that at some point, the list has to be narrowed. I would not start with 19 acceptances (if lucky) in the spring with a month to go to start the narrowing down process.</p>

<p>Different people also have different risk tolerance levels. Honestly, I’m pretty risk-averse and so I think of 2 safeties as really not enough, because “safety” is not synonymous with “in the bag sure thing.”</p>

<p>It IS synonymous with “in the bag sure thing” if its’s a rolling-admission public university that has accepted you by the end of September and has well-understood merit criteria.</p>

<p>Pizzagirl, some safeties are in the bag sure things. Mathson knew by Thanksgiving that he was in at RPI by Thanksgiving thanks to a priority application - that’s a sure thing. State schools that have automatic admissions based on the numbers can also be sure safeties. </p>

<p>I disagree slightly with Soozievt - a balanced list doesn’t have to have a match as long as you have a safety (or two) you like. It’s looking like we may be headed in that direction for S2 - he loves his safety, and he keeps rejecting the schools that look like matches. They all seem to be in the midwest, so he while he’s still considering them, I think he’d go to American over most of them.</p>

<p>(crossposted with JHS)</p>

<p>Pizzagirl, two safeties should be enough if one’s list is well balanced with reaches, matches, and safeties…rather than all reaches with safeties tacked on. I have never had a student get in to ZERO schools and I work with the gamut of a wide range of students…from top achievers to kids with GPAs under 3.0 and CR/M 900-1000, etc. I haven’t had a kid closed out of all colleges. EVery student should create an appropriate and well balanced list no matter their qualifications, need for aid, or type of college they seek. And this can be accomplished in almost all situations under 12 schools or so.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s great, but neither of my kids are interested in rolling-admission public universities. I mean, yeah, East Bumble State U which accepts anyone with a pulse might be a safety, but that doesn’t make it a safety of interest.</p>

<p>Don’t worry, I’m personally not interested in having my kids apply to umpteen schools – just making a point.</p>

<p>Generally, I am not into skipping matches, but if that works for someone, no big deal really. I just feel that reaches have slimmer odds (they are either reaches for your qualfiications or reaches due to very low admit rates) and there is a chance that none come through and I am not sure it makes sense to then go down to your safety when a school in between might have come through. I suppose if one is thrilled with their safety, it works! I just think that ballpark/match schools are where many end up (statistically speaking) and it makes sense to have some that may come close to one’s reaches but are not as difficult to get into and are not as easy to get into as their safeties. That’s just me but I suppose that as long as you have safeties and truly love them (and not just tack on your State U just because you can get in but don’t really want to go there), it works.</p>

<p>^^^ Actually, depending on how one crafts their safety list, it is easy to have only one. Both my s’s picked safeties that let them know early (one was an unofficial rolling-- ie quick turn around time, the other lets you know by Dec 15 if app is recieved by Nov 1. So, in both cases, they knew early on (younger s knew in October) that they wouldnt be living in our basement after HS. Reading cc threads, many kids have already received acceptances this year. Safeties dont have to have an Apr 1 notification date. Gotta love those early/rolling notifications.</p>

<p>***** lol!! I took a phonecall in the middle of typing this, and by the time I’d posted there were 4 responses talking about rolling admissions!!</p>