What if kids were limited to 6 applications?

Parents Forum
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<p>@python38, post#480–the differences between the US and British systems have been discussed briefly in this thread at several spots. In my opinion, the differences would make the same numerical cap on applications in the U.S. unfair. I think the British system of admissions is a reasonably fair one, in its context. It seems more predictable than American admissions to top schools–because purely academic criteria are given a much heavier weight in Britain. The difference in admissions policies reflects differences between the two cultures. (I don’t see HYPSM changing over to the Oxford/Cambridge model any time soon.)</p>

<p>I don’t have a good grasp of British pre-college education–but my impression is that the elimination or great reduction in the number of grammar schools (about 30 years ago) and the emphasis on sending students to comprehensive schools hurt bright but poor students. (Of course, in many regions in the U.S., bright but poor students are at a heavy disadvantage, also.) From an American viewpoint, the British decision seemed to be a step backwards at the time. How has it actually played out? (I’m not well-informed on it now.) </p>

<p>In that sense, I’m not sure that the British system is fairer overall. I do have the impression that some attempt is made to compensate for an applicant’s educational opportunities in Britain, though.</p>

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<p>The challenge at our house is finding 6 schools S2 wants to apply to…</p>

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<p>3togo, I agree completely. I do think limiting it to six is not good. That would not be in the best interests to certain applicants, though may be OK for some. I am not really into limiting it at all. I don’t limit any of my advisees but do advise them. I truly believe that the majority of applicants do not need over 12. There may be an exception for a very good reason and I’d have to hear it. But with a well balanced list, an appropriate list, and yes, even shooting to include elite schools or needing FA or Merit Aid, I think it can be done well with 12 and under schools. When you start getting much over 13 or 14, I just don’t see the true necessity of it and see a lot of drawbacks to it but I believe it is up to each family to decide what suits their purposes.</p>

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<p>This is a terrible idea. It’s simply unfair to those applying to highly selective schools. You simply need at least 7 or 8 apps (12 max, I’d say) to be reasonably sure you’ll get into one of your top choices, no matter how highly qualified you are.</p>

<p>Not to mention that financial aid offers differ so much that students with lower income families (like mine) need to be able to compare offers of similar schools. Northwestern and Macalester, for example, expected me to pay 3X as much money as Harvard, Yale, and Penn.</p>

<p>It also discourages kids from aiming high at schools like Harvard and Yale–which isn’t a bad thing. </p>

<p>If I had had only six apps, I would have applied just to Northwestern, Macalester, Boston College (my safety), Princeton (where I’m a triple-plus legacy) and Brown (where I know an adcom) and not given Harvard or Yale a chance because I wouldn’t have thought I could get in. I would have gotten rejected at Princeton and Brown, waitlisted at Boston College, and would end up paying a boatload of money (30K) for Northwestern.</p>

<p>Because I had more applications, I took a chance and applied to Harvard and Yale too, got into both, and am now paying less than 10K/year at Yale.</p>

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<p>An EFC of less than $10,000 is pretty low income, I can see why those who are in such straits would apply to schools that meet full need, especially if they received fee waivers to do so.</p>

<p>However, it doesn’t say much for the background of being a triple legacy at Princeton.</p>

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<p>Southeasttitan’s parents work in the social work field IIRC. What’s wrong with that? Are her parents obligated to work on Wall Street and chase dollars just bc they have Princeton degrees?</p>

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<p>Wow. 20K a year difference in need based aid at need-only’s. Who’d have thunk it? ;)</p>

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<p>What’s wrong with that? Are her parents obligated to work on Wall Street and chase dollars just bc they have Princeton degrees?</p>

<p>Of c ourse not- however EFC seems to be roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of income. However, I would expect adults with Ivy degrees to be making at least as much as people who didn’t graduate from high school. I certainly would expect them to make as much as the median income nationwide- especially working for the govt.</p>

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<p>So are you saying that people with Ivy League educations should not work for non-profit organizations, teach, do social work, do peace corp or americorp because those jobs would earn them just as much (in some places) as people with a high school diploma?</p>

<p>You cannot always equate wealth in terms of $$ and cents. </p>

<p>I must be a really bad parent because I never talked to my kid about chasing a $, I told her that her gift would make room for her, to do what she loved and she would still manage to eat everyday.</p>

<p>So what did she do? My Ivy educated kid majored in something she loved and was interested in learning about (that some people would find useless) and working in a job where she earns a small fraction of the cost of her education. But, go figure.</p>

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<p>Very poor form to mock a kid for what that kid’s parents may or may not be earning. You don’t need ANY formal education to learn how to be decent.</p>

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<p>You don’t need ANY formal education to learn how to be decent.
I suppose not- but then my parents weren’t around to see if I graduated from high school, let alone bring me up with expectations that I could attend a university.</p>

<p>It is up to Princeton if they want to use their endowments to underwrite educations of those people who choose to raise children on restricted incomes- but I still wouldn’t argue that, that would be the best use of those funds.</p>

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<p>I apologize if I have been too outspoken. However applying to more than a couple colleges is limited in my world to those who make more per hour than what one application costs or to those who are of the segment of the population who receive waivers
My kids applied to seven colleges combined, that was what we could afford and we lived with that
If some can be prideful that they are poor enough to receive a university education for less than 10 K than I can also proudly say my daughter is atending an instate university and we are happy to pay the full price</p>

<p>Go ahead and spend a month groceries on college applications in the hopes of getting the right package from the right school
Heaven knows its only as long as all those planets are aligned that your kid will be able to reach theiR true destiny</p>

513

<p>Using your numbers with Northwestern’s EFC</p>

<p>30k X 3 = 90K
30k X 4 = 120k</p>

<p>yields an income range of 90k-120k</p>

<p>Harvard at that income range charges 10% or less of income and Yale appears to be competitive with Harvard in that regard - all of which would seem to confirm that income range</p>

<p>In your world view, Ivy educated parents with this level of income are failures? Yikes!</p>

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<p>Ok, I’m really confused by your comments Emeraldkity4. If you’ve been able to finance an instate education in its entirety, how could the $600 - $1200 on application fees required to cast a slightly wider net to find the best possible FIT have been outside of your reach? So, the application process wasn’t worth 1 - 2% (or LESS) of whatever instrument you are using to finance instate education costs for 4 years?
I mean, both my son and I saved $ for applications and college visits (and extra courses and music opportunities to be competitive) in sophomore and jr. years. Our efc is low enough that my s. is a candidate for FA at any school, even instate. I am well-educated but have “restricted” my income (from your viewpoint) by participating in a work environment I enjoy, leaving time to volunteer within the community, and oftentime choosing to spend time with my son instead of chasing the buck or keeping up with the Jones’. That doesn’t make me any less intelligent as a human being, and that doesn’t reflect in any way on the caliber of the education I received. I have in the past made considerably more money and enjoyed my life considerably less.</p>

<p>In the end, because we’d found economical ways to visit a number of specialized programs while enjoying trips around the country, my son chose to apply to just a few of those programs on his original list and ultimately chose to attend his state flagship school. So we didn’t end up spending a lot on multiple applications or spending a lot financing an out-of-state education, but I would like to believe that those decisions were based on FIT and not on any sense of “restriction” or “prohibition.” </p>

<p>The best things we can teach our children is the concept of “What’s possible” and staying open to that while recognizing that they are responsible for causing it – that there are not rights or rewards without responsibility. It is bordering on shameful to suggest that it is somehow less virtuous, as I believe you did in your post, for a child of any socioeconomic background to pursue their dreams. Nor is it pleasant to suggest that it is somehow errant or elitist for families to invest in creating the optimal range of opportunities for their children.</p>

<p>My earlier comments were meant to suggest the only qualifier is that they have some skin in the game. Eg. contributing to financing visits, being earnest in their applications, and having a healthy respect for the resources they are using by the grace of others.</p>

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<p>* If you’ve been able to finance an instate education in its entirety,*</p>

<p>we are doing so with loans- from my daughter, from our home equity and from Plus loans- not money that is available for college applications , Our EFC is $18,000 which is roughly the cost of attendance. which is 1/4 of our before tax income.</p>

516

<p>Using your numbers with Northwestern’s EFC</p>

<p>Not having applied for aid at an Ivy school- I was using FAFSA EFC not whatever calculator Harvard uses.
It’s been my experience that an income of $60,000 comes up with an EFC of $15,000 to $18,000, so an EFC of less than $ 10,000 would be more aligned with an income of less than$40,000 and yes I do consider an income of less than $ 40,000 which is less than national median to be a poor showing given normal circumstances</p>

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<p>Our efc is low enough that my s. is a candidate for FA at any school, even instate. I am well-educated but have “restricted” my income (from your viewpoint) by participating in a work environment I enjoy, leaving time to volunteer within the community, and oftentime choosing to spend time with my son instead of chasing the buck or keeping up with the Jones’.</p>

<p>sounds like you are pretty self actualized- thats great, even though choosing to make less money in order to have more free time is not a choice that is available to most people. If you don’t have enough money to pay for health care- basic rent- savings and transportation without working two jobs, that isn’t * chasing the buck or keeping up with the JOnes* that is called trying to stay afloat.</p>

<p>Is the university funding best used to assist children of educated families who are choosing to live a lower income, lower paced lifestyle or should more emphasis be placed on children from families who don’t have an educated background, who perhaps do not have even emotional support from their community to encourage their children to continue education after high school?
Money is finite.
I don’t expect to change anyones mind about how many schools to apply to-and with the push to get 100% need met at the handful of schools that do so, I expect that students are likely to apply to more schools in the future- but I also haven’t heard anyone make a decent argument for why they need to apply to more than a dozen schools that I would agree with.</p>

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<p>emeraldkity4 - all I can say is “Really”. All of life is about choice. You wake up every morning and you have a clean slate and choose every move you make that day. What a great gift - choice. Choose what you want to be, choose how you would like to live your life and choose to apply to as many schools as you want to. It’s pretty simple to me.</p>

519

<p>My school has this policy.</p>

<p>I had a class rank of second, SAT’s above 2000, strong essays and reccomendations, an uninflated GPA of 4.2, activities etc., and didn’t get in anywhere for this September.</p>

<p>I applied to 2 ‘safety’ schools as I only had a place for 6 — 2 safeties, 1 dream, 1 reach, 2 matches, but because the number of students was really high this year and because of the financial crisis, I didn’t get into schools where my scores and grades were way above the median range. Strangley enough, I got waitlisted for a dream, match, and reach, but didn’t get off any of them and got rejected from both my safeties.</p>

<p>I ended up going to a good local college but I was devastated since it was my dream to go the the States to study, since I’ve stayed in my country for years. (I am an interntional student, so it’s not an American college I am attending now), and now I will have to transfer, or start over as a freshman, as I don’t know how credits transfer over. </p>

<p>My guidance counselor’s excuse fr the policy was, “a lot of schools in the USA have this policy” and “the school office is understaffed and we can’t process that many applications”. They wouldn’t release more than 6 transcripts. But it seems like the majority of schools don’t have this policy in the USA, so naturally I was at an disadvantage.</p>

<p>This six school policy wasn’t the only reason I didn’t get in, but I keep thinking…"IF I had gotten the chance to apply to another one or two schools, I MAY have gotten in. </p>

<p>I don’t understand why our schools can limit our potential like that. It’s not like we’re going to go apply to 20 or 30 schools — that’s crazy. But if we want to try applying to different kinds of schools, and have a range of schools to choose from when accepted, I don’t think the six schools policy works…I keep thinking about the people at my school who have to follow this rule, and keep wondering how many will end up like me.</p>

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<p>That’s unfortunate for you, but what does that have to do with chastising southeasttitan for her parents “not making enough” with their Princeton degrees? Honestly, shame on you. The value of an Ivy/elite degree isn’t all about the money that can be made with it. How would you feel if others chastised YOU for not making enough to send your kids to elite colleges full-pay? Why is southeasttitan’s parents’ income “shameful” but yours is acceptable?</p>

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<p>Ah, so Princeton should have more loyalty towards the sons and daughters of the Princetonians who headed to Wall Street, law school or med school, than to the sons and daughters of the Princetonians who went into social work, teaching, non-profits, etc.? What an … interesting perspective. </p>

<p>Your whole series of posts is very sour-grapes-y.</p>