<p>
</p>
<p>And if the student chose the performance route and (back to the Conservatory discussion) she was not accepted into the Dance program at her schools of choice, I guess she would either go to those schools as a business major (even if they don’t have strong programs) or take a gap year?</p>
<p>
I don’t know if it’s poignant or not, but my son was one of those who wanted to go to a very selective school for the student body. There were really no schools that fit that particular criterion where he could be certain of being admitted. So he applied to more of them.</p>
<p>How many did he apply to, Hunt, and how’d he decide which to apply to?</p>
<p>Missy, there are many strong larger public schools with both Dance and Business majors. If it were my hypothetical I would have them apply to those schools. Fortunately, it is primarily schools with many majors for the undecided so yes, that hypothetical person could have quite a strong group of 8 or so schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Look, I’m not the one who posed this crazy hypothetical.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are picking colleges based on wanting to be a Dance major, you sure as shooting ought to have a Dance safety. I was assuming open-enrollment for Dance majors (once accepted), but if every Dance program is a conservatory program – of course, that’s not true – then there had better be a non-Dance safety on the list unless the student is very, very certain of her quality level. </p></li>
<li><p>My niece was a dance major. Her main criterion in choosing a college was the strength of its dance department. She graduated (finally) from the fifth college at which she registered as a student. Finding the right dance match ain’t so easy. (Getting accepted, by the way, was never her problem. She didn’t care much about mainstream prestige, and none of the colleges had a straight conservatory program. She wound up getting a BA/BFA dual degree in journalism and dance from a directional public that she loved.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I must say I don’t understand the problem that needs fixing by limiting applications per student.
Are there other choices that we should propose limiting?
ie; only 6 Major League baseball games attended per season,
only 6 flavors of ice cream per store,
only 6 books from library per year,
only 6 possible job interviews, ever.</p>
<p>Insert smiley winking face here, I don’t have the technological know-how to do so at this point.</p>
<p>I posed the hypo, but not because I think it’s a good idea–to the contrary. But I did think it was interesting to consider what would happen if this was the rule.</p>
<p>
My son applied to 12 schools, and he picked them by reading about a lot of schools, and by visiting some of them. He had some parameters (like location, kind of music program), but he had a strong interest in a very able student body. He went to a magnet high school, and wanted a college that would be something like that. He didn’t want an LAC. So he ended up applying to about 7 reaches, several matches, and a couple of safeties (probably should have dropped one of the safeties). He would have been happy attending any of those schools, except probably for the safety we should have dropped. He wouldn’t have been ecstatic about the other safety, but the merit money would have made it easier to take.
But he liked a number of schools that (supposedly) are mutually exclusive. For example, he liked both Columbia and Brown, even though they are opposites in terms of core curriculum.</p>
<p>(Edit: Jeebus, this is looooongg.)</p>
<p>Without exaggeration, I would have transferred my D from her high school if a system like this was in place there. If all high schools had it? Welcome to Curmudgeon’s Homeschool High. It would have been intolerable. </p>
<p>How many barriers to admission to these high cost schools do y’all want to put in front of some of these kids? The list would be different for each kid but here’s a short list of what my D’s school was like compared to what l’ve learned from CC are the norm for some high-dollar high schools:</p>
<p>Limited AP’s (“IB? What’s that?”) offered (I think 3)
Unknown school
Unknown unconnected over-worked GC who didn’t even know what I meant by “unweighted GPA” (Nobody had ever asked her for one.)
No picking up the phone and calling the college admissions office by the GC.
No financial aid counseling beyond what fed loans were available
No history of any student ever applying (much less attending) most OOS schools, selective or not
No in school SAT/ACT courses or counseling
No college fairs (attended by OOS schools) within 80 miles (Private schools had the admissions officers at their school 90 miles way. My D called and asked the college if she could meet with the admissions person as she was interested and they were in town. “No.” That seems fair. ;))
Nearest hub/SW airport for cheap college visits 2 1/2 hours away
No “college app” writing classes
No Naviance (Heck, I’d probably be burned at the stake as a witch if I suggested there was such a creature)
No school profile. I had to write one. </p>
<p>But…by researching countless hours, buying every guidebook and on-line source we could find, having some very generous people on CC helping us along, and traveling well over 10,000 miles by pickup truck over a 2 1/2 year period visiting colleges my D crafted a list that consisted of : </p>
<p>1 IS safety with auto-merit and auto-admit. </p>
<p>Going in, that was the ONLY (class of) school we knew we could afford.</p>
<p>Next came 1 OOS admissions safety LAC with a guaranteed merit award for a 35 ACT valedictorian (but NOT guaranteed admissions) that was just barely enough to get by maxing out Federal loans. </p>
<p>When that acceptance came in , you would have thought she’d been crowned queen. She was so proud. “I’m going to college!!!” (Search my posts from the time. I think that’s a direct real-time quote.) </p>
<p>Schools 3-12 were admissions matches/safeties , financial huge reaches (all very expensive privates), where she would be competitive for the top merit awards. All schools were substantially more selective than school 1 or 2. She got the top award (not often full rides) at probably half-ish (I could check). What if she would have applied to the “wrong” half? Or is that just tough luck? These big merit awards are quite possibly the hardest thing to get in admissions. (Several hundred apps/scholarship in many cases.)</p>
<p>Could she have dropped a couple? With 20/20 hindsight, sure. But with the facts she had at the time, it was a good list.</p>
<p>The last 5 were suggested by a paid Stats Eval done by Dave Berry and by veteran posters on this site. I thought she had a good chance to get in, but little chance to be able to afford to go. Others thought it was worth a shot. D was willing so…without regard to the GC or the admissions staff, she applied. Heartless, I know. I realize some of y’all are morally superior. I can live with that. ;)</p>
<p>(We actually did all the copying, postage, and envelopes for the GC. She did have to operate the “seal” for the transcript. I hope she’s recovered. ;))</p>
<p>One of them in fact ended up affordable and I’ll always love that school. </p>
<p>She didn’t apply to a single school (other than her IS super-safety) where she was not excited about the chance to attend. No trophy hunting at all. </p>
<p>If you have similar $ issues and a similar kid, I offer it up as a plan. I even did much of the same stuff with my niece (lower stats but terrifically interesting profile and compelling life story). Won’t make you any friends among some folks on CC , or at the high school, but do you really care? ;)</p>
<p>We can’t make it even. These are all little things. Everything we did , all added together? I’d still rather have the $ to apply ED. </p>
<p>Ciao. Back to my hole in the ground. Good luck , folks. Do what’s right for your family. Stand up for your kid. They’ll appreciate it.</p>
<p>My kids each applied to seven schools (and could have dropped at least one apiece). They would have applied to 2-3 more each, but in each case they had early acceptances to a fairly high choice, so that cut off the tails of their lists. Stupidly, perhaps, we were not chasing merit scholarships, although some came our way.</p>
<p>In one case, the seven consisted of two hyper-selective reaches, four matches (all fine colleges, three of which were sort of reachy), and one rock-solid safety (financially, too) that sent its acceptance by return mail in September. It was easy to follow this strategy because there was an EA acceptance to what was almost certainly choice #3 or 4 at the time. At least one of the other applications was simply a pressure valve – a rural LAC just in case a few months later an urban research university didn’t seem like such a hot idea.</p>
<p>In the other case, it was four hyper-selective reaches, two matches, and one in-between, but again there was an acceptance by a fine college by the beginning of December. </p>
<p>There were dozens, at least, of colleges that either kid would also have liked, loved even. The principals on which they chose their hyper-selective reaches were not entirely rational, and if either had been trying to attend a hyper-selective college for the sake of attending a hyper-selective college, he would have applied to more such colleges. After two years of college, one of them announced that if he had to do it all over again, he would apply to almost a completely different (but similarly configured) set of colleges. So what? Both kids, and their parents, have been more than happy with the outcomes.</p>
<p>
Unnecessary and unkind. Not like you to sound so defensive 'mudge. </p>
<p>If person is paid to do a stats eval, makes sense that they are probably going to add a few schools to the list. Thats what they are paid to do. Fine.</p>
<p>Here’s the response from the HS college counselor
</p>
<p>Fine to disagree. Not necessary to throw barbs.</p>
<p>This has been suggested before, usually with strong reactions of horror and statements of “But my kid NEEDED to apply to 15 schools! Really!”</p>
<p>
They use that system in the UK. Applicants are limited to 5 (formerly 6) universities and can apply to either Oxford or Cambridge, but not both. The result is that even Oxford can have admit rates of 50% in certain programs. </p>
<p>The problem with this approach, of course, is that all universities in the UK are quasi-public and extraordinarily cheap. The issue of financial aid and cost control in American universities would be a problem.</p>
<p>
Indeed there is! The 2008 CIRP survey found that </p>
<p>**-- 44.5% of seniors apply to more than 3 colleges
– 21.9% apply to more than 5
– 2.9% to more than 10.</p>
<p>– 77.8% of applicants were admitted to their top choice
– 95.4% of applicants end up at one of their top 3 choices**</p>
<p>In other words, 56% of students apply to 1-3 colleges, and nearly 80% apply to 1-5.</p>
<p>My kids did not apply to more than 6, but I see no justification for limiting other people, although I would approve high schools charging more for the extra work. The argument that you do not need more than 6–even if it were true, which seems not to be the case for many people in need of FA–does not justify forcing people to limit themselves.</p>
<p>We all see people who do certain things which are not necessary and we regard as wasteful or vain–buying their kids lots of fancy clothes or toys; buying themselves very expensive cars every two years; etc. Outlawing such conduct, however, when it does not harm anyone else creates a dangerous precedent.</p>
<p>Looks a little different in context, doesn’t it jym?
I do feel strongly about this, but gee…aren’t you getting a bit prickly? Sorry I appear to you to be “defensive”. Like I always have, I’m just doing my best to represent a group that gets short shrift around here. </p>
<p>Defensive? Hmm??? Some may feel the same about your posts. (Jym, are we supposed to be doing this? Defensive? Prickly? You know, TOS and all? Makes me nervous as a cat. ;))</p>
<p>Like I inferred earlier, capping the applications helps the GC far more than the student. In essence, a school that caps applications is reducing the chance that a top student will receive top need-based aid, from those rich schools those offering great need-base aid, even to upper middle class families. With a cap of 6 or 8, few would use 3 apps choices on HYP. But what if one “researches” the wrong one, and is rejected, but woulda been accepted into another of the well-endowed if s/he could apply to all three. </p>
<p>In another time, the federal government slapped the Ivies upside the head for colluding on finaid. IMO, capping apps has similar results.</p>
<p>Actually,’ mudge, I see it quite the opposite (no surprise there, I suppose). I was gonna ask you if you really felt it was necesary to throw in those last schools where you
These are the applications that our GC would have said were hard to justify adding, if probability of being able to afford to attend even if accepted was very low. You didnt say, as others have, that you’d sell the goats and find a way to pay for the tippy top schools if she got in. Well, she got in and she decided not to matriculate. I don’t recall what their policies were about COA back then, but obviously it wasn’t as good as the great deal she got at Rhodes. Not begrudging that. Thats fine and we were all thrilled for you and her. Its just that if you hadn’t added those 5 after the paid stats eval, your # of applications would have still been high, at 14, but not in the range that gets the response that it does from those who have a different perspective on this.</p>
<p>My mistake was not editing the post I quoted that had a line in it that seems to have raised hackles. It wasn’t my issue, and I should have cut/pasted better. My bad. I was at work where the a/c was not working today (after the days of rain here-- we need an ark!!) and I was procrastinating between appts. The poster I quoted can speak for herself. No need to kill the messenger. My focus is that our HS has a policy that we all lived/live with (as its confirmed that this policy is still in place) so from our perspective applying to double or triple the number that most of our kids apply to just seems as puzzling to us as probably the thought of applying to 3-5 seems to those with a different focus. Fine. As many have said above, the number of student who apply to so many schools is small, so perhaps they feel they need to justify (“defend”) their decision when it is questioned. Dunno. Those last 5 you/she added after the paid stats eval did kinda sound just a little like trophy hunting from the way you described it above… but surely I misread. You wouldnt do that, 'mudge ;)</p>
<p>bluebayou-
Can’t speak for other schools, but at our HS the counselors work their tushes off. Lots of personalized help, immediate responses to phonecalls and emails (I got 2 quick email responses today, in the middle of applications season, and I dont have any kids at the school anymore). And even with the 6-8 school limit , they did pretty well this year, as in past years. 100% acceptance to 4 year colleges;
The counselors werent slackers. They did their job.</p>
<p>*** Also noticed from the stats the school posted ,the average # of applications is 6.6 per student. GC mentioned that there were 25 gift certificates bought this year, so apparently 9% went over that “8 maximum” cutoff.</p>
<p>My high school actually charges to send transcripts after the first one…</p>
<p>Back to morally superior, huh jym? Feel the love. lol. It’s o.k. Whatever keeps you warm at night.</p>
<p>I could have said “ouch”, but you’re gonna have to zing better than that to hurt me. Why so personal? Do you have some grudge I’m unaware of? Attack me. Attack my kid. Attack anybody you want. Not very attractive IMO, but hey. Give it your best shot. It’s water off a duck’s back.</p>
<p>jym:</p>
<p>Sounds like a wonderful HS, but you miss my point: limiting applications limits the ability to compare offers, whether they be merit and/or need-based. Perhaps need-based is not an issue at your HS, but even comparing merit money has its advantages. You may recall a couple of years ago, Beurah’s son was offered a full merit ride to JHU, but whose heart was in Durham. Well, when push came to shove, the Dookies upped the anty to their full merit ride. Without the leverage to negotiate, B’s son could have been “stuck” with a half-ride to Duke, which in itself is wonderful, but not as wonderful as a 100%!</p>
<p>And, btw, no where did I comment how hard your GCs work, since I would have absolutely no way of knowing. But, that was also not my point. Private HS GCs have a bifurcated allegiance, in that they need to keep the tuition payors happy (y’all) AND maintain a strong relationship with adcoms. If nothing else, it is poses the appearance of conflict. Like I posted earlier, not everyone of the top xx kids can walk on water. If the HS did not limit apps, 50 of your HS seniors might apply to HYP…how does the GC 'esplain to the adcoms who is “better”? How does the GC write the same in 50 GC reports? Obviously, they can’t, so limiting apps helps them.</p>
<p>BTW posters playing the home version of the game…sort of like where’s waldo? …point out where I criticized jym’s family’s (or any other poster’s family’s) approach to the app process for the instant win. ;)</p>
<p>Again. Do what is right your family. We did. It worked out just fine.</p>