<p>There is no reason to drink in any situation if yu don't want to, and that includes office Christmas parties and frat parties. Holding and/or drinking a glass of ginger ale or sparkling water and not making a fuss about "not drinking" will get you through just about anything and you may be surprised how many other people are doing the same thing.</p>
<p>Also, for the OP: as the parent of two students who were not among the drinking crowd in high school I would say that many students do drk at least freshman year when they get to college, no matter what their high school personas and opinions were. It doesn't mean they are going to drink forever or that they will be party animals, just that it is something college kids do (I don't approve but at this point I realize it's the case). And I would also say that drinking can be a very part-time activity at any college. One can drink on a weekend and be highly conscientious about academics and ECs as well. And it is equally possibly to find students who do not drink or drug, and to move between groups quite smoothly as needs and interests shift. It is posible your child will never drink and possibly that he will not drink but have friends who do (or vice versa). The bottom line is to look for schools whose general personality and focus fit that of your child. Alcohol use per se is an overly narrow measure of that.</p>
<p>i find it funny that if you disagree with interesteddad he gets his panties in a twist. just face the fact that for once you're wrong about the binge drinking, as it doesn't tell you the vibe of campus partying. like i said, and MANY others, you can drink 5 beers over an entire day and be considered a binge drinker. thats not what i or anyone else would call a "partier."</p>
<p>It's also interesting that high school students (or people who write like high school students) continue to claim that "you can't do business without drinking, you really can't" even after several parents, presumably with experience in 'business', have directly contradicted it. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>My D didn't choose a school that was known for its football teams and tailgate extravaganzas- the academic load is fairly rigourous and students dont have the ability to party three days a week ( some schools don't have friday classes)
Still she chose a subfree dorm freshman year because she has asthma and didn't want to be smelling smoke from someones clothes and we also figured that a subfree dorm would be quieter and easier to enforce than a "quiet" dorm.
Most of the activities don't "require" drinking, and while she does go to parties and to bars, I don't have the impression that alcohol is a big part of her life on or off campus ( for example- she has been home for two weeks, one week we were vacationing where there was both beer and wine with dinner- I haven't seen her drink anything at all, even when I was)</p>
<p>I have also noticed that young people seem to be much more aware of the effects of alcohol than when I was that age. There is always a designated driver- even if everyone else is drinking- although there often are people who only have one drink and nurse it the entire evening. They also are aware of having one non alcoholic drink for every alcoholic one- that makes a big difference in the effects on your body, not just that night, but the next day.</p>
<p>So many people abstain from alcohol, whether from health or religious reasons, that if the group that you are with is insulted in someway, that says more about them, than you.
My husband is an alcoholic, but he is in recovery and doesn't drink- he can be around alcohol, it makes him nauseuos to hear people talk about it, like at our recent vacation where the other guests were either discussing making beer or their trips through the UK described by what pubs they frequented, but no one has ever insisted that he have anything.
all you have to say is " I don't drink" that can mean whatever you want it to. You could be in recovery or just don't want to get started drinking with the present company.
I think in any school in the country there is both drinking and drugging as well as "sex". Any school- some are just more hidden.
However also at any school are students who refrain, the difference is whether different choices are tolerated or if students assume somone making a different choice is making a judgement about their choice, and pressure them to "go along"</p>
<p>The OP indicates that her son is a serious type of guy deep into his interests - I don't think it matters about other students drinking or not -what he needs is to find a school where the academic and ET interests tend to favor his interests, so that he will have an easy time finding sympatico friends and activities. Find colleges that are strong in his academic subjects of choice and that also have a strong music program and, just as important, tons of music-oriented EC groups/clubs.</p>
<p>My son mostly hangs out with small groups of students in his subjects or the musical groups in which he performs, sometimes small groups from the resedential college, and he doesn't drink at all. He says about 1/3rd of the undergrads go pub crawling several times a week, but he only goes along when it's an after-performance required social ritual. He has a soft drink and after the first occasion (i.e. "I don't drink") no one remarks on it at all.</p>
<p>MarylandMom, if your son is going to be a recruited athlete (you mention that he is a talented athlete but not whether he is likely to be recruited), he will be invited on official visits to schools. At those, he will stay at school for 48 hours with members of the team for which he is being recruited and will go to classes with them, hang out, go to parties, etc. That will give him a good opportunity to see what the culture around that team is, including drinking, partying, etc. The guys talk about what it is like at the school and take the recruit along with them on their normal activities on the weekend. My son found out pretty quickly what life was likely to be like if he want to one school versus another. </p>
<p>Of course, there have been some highly publicized and outrageous incidents of conduct that goes way beyond some drinking on these official visits at some D1s, but even at LACs and similar schools, he will still get a pretty good idea. </p>
<p>If he is not an athletic recruit, it can still be helpful to arrange an overnight visit, either with a former schoolmate who is at the school of interest, or with someone arranged through the admissions office. No guarantee that this will answer all questions but the closer you can get to the source, the better.</p>
<p>Just want to add some support to interesteddad - and the binge drinking survey work out of Harvard. This is the standard. Is it perfect - no, but it is the best out there. Furthermore -- everyone, and I do mean everyone -- who works in higher education today and has worked in higher ed for say 10 years or more - will tell you that dangerous drinking among college students today is much more pervasive than in the past. "Alcohol Transports," as they call the kids who are taken to the emergency room, are way up.</p>
<p>To the poster's question, my D who was a non-drinker in h.s. became a moderate drinker in college. Her ignorance is occasionally frightening. Now, while your son is in an anti-drinking frame of mind, would be a good time to dispell myths about how much a person can drink - and, no, eating crackers and staying awake won't counter the effects of too much alcohol. Beyond this, I would pay some attention to the binge drinking rates and the percentage of greek students. If your son is headed for a large school, there are likely to be at least some students who are non-drinkers. Substance free housing is a good idea. Theme housing, honors colleges, etc. all add to seriousness of purpose.</p>
<p>You don't have to drink or to "party" to have fun or to have wonderful friends. I am sorry to hear that some still think that drinking is a requirement for being social. </p>
<p>I do not know of a college or University of value that doesn't have some degree of partying going on at the school. Schools may have drug or substance free dorms and that can reduce the impact on your student. Some schools have very few classes scheduled for Fridays because students are on three day weekends every week...watch out for them. Good luck.</p>
<p>It's not just the Harvard School of Public Health surveys. The college's own survey instruments all ask basically the same "binge drinking" questions. For example, the undergrad surveys conducted by the 31 members of the COFHE group all ask the "5 drink" question. Also, the surveys administered by alcohol consultants hired by colleges ask these questions as well.</p>
<p>Many colleges publish their "binge drinking" rates (either the 5-drink or 5/4-drink measure) in documents or newspapers available on the web.</p>
<p>It is the consistency of the definition that is useful. If you know that "x" percent of students have drunk at "y" rate within the last two weeks at a school, you can compare that to the national average, using the same definitions, and get an accurate sense of whether your are looking at a party school or not.</p>
<p>maybe i'm just part of the binge drinking students (albeit in HS now) but I definitely do not consider 5 drinks a binge. I'll be drunk, sure, but I'd consider 10 drinks over an "event" more of a binge. Even if it's 5 drinks in 2 hours, that doesn't seem like it should qualify as a "binge", considering alcohol is eliminated at the rate of 1 per hour, you're not plastered at that point, just with a very nice buzz.</p>
<p>So even if we accept that as the standard, the standard means nothing if you don't consider it a "binge".</p>
<p>so I wonder what do your parents think about you drinking 5 drinks in two hours?
How much do you weigh?
All states have passed a .08 law, minimum some have more stringent requirements. a person weighing 160 lbs would under optimum conditions have a .07 alcohol level after 5-12 oz beers after 2 hours.
For those who are under age, there are ZERO tolerance laws, in every state even Florida.</p>
<p>They aren't "ZERO tolerence" - you can have a small amount of alcohol found in your blood because of mouthwash or many other reasons (small meaning something like .001 or whatever), plus the tests are not error-proof. Rather, most states have a .08 standard for 21+ year olds and a .02 standard for minors.</p>
<p>5 drinks in 2 hours is nothing for any reasonably experienced drinker.</p>
<p>My recommendation is to look at schools where there are things to do off-campus, like schools that are in or near an urban area, or where there are multiple colleges nearby. If nothing is happening on your campus, check out what's happening at nearby colleges.</p>
<p>The drinking and drugging thing is way overrated. Those interested in doing other things just need to be proactive about finding each other and identifying non-drinking activities to participate in. Non-drinking students have to be willing to share with others what they do like to do, and not concentrate so much on what they don't like.</p>
<p>Unless a student is in a college environment where other students are trying to force drinking and drugging, just travel in another direction!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I take major issues with surveys about drinking at colleges - both anecdotally because most people I know vastly understate the amount they drink, and statistically since controlled studies have found that most college students have NO IDEA of how much they're drinking, especially with regard to shots (where people have major trouble guessing how much different sizes/shapes of shot glasses all hold) and mixed drinks. Further, I'd wager that most students don't even know what the medical definition of a drink is - many people count a half and half jack and coke (which could have 8+ medical/statistical drinks in it) as 1 drink.</p>
<p>I'd also say the thursday night test isn't a great one - most colleges I know of have thursday night parties. It is almost universal at this point - and the hard partying colleges (i.e. ASU, FSU) will have parties or active/full bars 7 days a week.</p>
<p>Not drinking is socially fine for girls (because they're much more likely to be exploited if they're stumbling around drunk than guys are), but is more questionable for guys. Honestly, I don't even know why you'd want to go to a party if you weren't going to drink - the focus of most parties I've seen is drinking, and most everyone there will be either drinking, drunk or both. Having said that, the key thing to remember for nondrinkers is to not look down at drinkers just because they drink. That is the #1 reason that drinkers will dislike a nondrinker - most nondrinkers think they are better than those who imbibe solely because they don't drink. They think of drinking as some horrible mark against a person. Nondrinkers that view drinking simply as an activity that they don't participate in and otherwise don't care about it tend to be fine socially.</p>
<p>I'll conclude by saying that at any reasonably sized school there is almost assuredly a group of people who don't drink/use drugs who someone who wants to stay sober can hang out with.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Great post. </p>
<p>LOL at the one poster that said "D doesnt drink...doesnt party...she just plays trivial pursuit and watches movies..." - somehow I doubt a college student just does that. </p>
<p>Anyway colleges have people that dont drink and party but i think some parents have the wrong idea of partying. Not all students go to big frat parties and get plastered. Many, including a lot of friends in college, drink in small get togethers with some people that they trust. It really is fun and basically harmless. </p>
<p>Something I hate to say is that a lot of the kids whos parents post on this thread may have some problems at first in college. This is an assumption, but I have a feeling that a lot of your kids are not used to the freedom that one gets to enjoy in college. This can sometimes result in a freshman going crazy and making bad decisions(ie. extreme binge drinking, lots of sex, drugs, etc.) While certainly not the case with many students, I know a lot of schools where they have problems with rebellious freshman that are not experienced with partying and therefore cannot control themselves.</p>
<p>Oh and btw in response to Princeton's "substance free dorm", im not sure what this is really supposed to mean since all dorms should in essence be "substance free". Drugs are illegal and drinking is illegal to consume for people under 21(almost everyone in dorms).</p>
<p>I seriously doubt drinking and drugs are worse now than when I went to college in the late 60's and early 70's. I pretty much stayed away from drugs, but I knew lots of kids who fried their brains with LSD and other drugs. We would have been amazed that anyone would consider 5 drinks as a binge.</p>
<p>When I was in college (just a few years ago...) I never hesitated to go to parties and not drink. My first couple of years, when I went mostly to large house/dorm parties, it was basically just a big crowd milling around talking and hanging out. Lots of people drank, and some people didn't -- people would always offer to get you something but not in a creepy way, just being good hosts! I think that if you are confident, and like to have fun, you can have a great time "partying" and socializing in big groups without drinking (or getting drunk). My school (small NE LAC) did not have a greek system, and I think that helped because the parties were not organized, they were just kind of big loose gatherings. you could show up for a few hours after studying in just chill for awhile. Once we were 21 and went to bars, same thing -- if I was tired or just didn't feel like it I would just drink seltzer water and hang out with my friends -- it was about being together.</p>
<p>I just wanted to post this because the guy who posted about his daughter at Amherst made it sound like non-drinkers ahve to turn down party invitations if they don't drink, or resort to Trivial Pursuit in their rooms -- some people are happy doing that, but you can absolutely go to parties and not drink. ESPECIALLY when alcohol is limited and expensive, people are happy to have teetotalers. The key is that YOU are happy and contribute something to the group -- people will pick up on that and be cool with it if they are worth hanging out with. And most kids are too busy worrying about themselves to care about whats in someone else's cup, trust me.</p>
<p>While I agree with those sentiments, at most "party" parties a student will feel at least somewhat left out of if they sit there and don't drink when everyone else is drinking consantly so as to get drunk. I'd say this is most true at frat parties, but certainly can be true at dorm "parties" (i.e. pregaming, etc.). Can a student get by and hang out without drinking without too much harassment? Sure. But why would you WANT to hang out with a bunch of people whose focal activity is going to be drinking and who are going to be drunk by the end of the night? Talking to drunk people sober is only fun for about 5 minutes.</p>
<p>Point taken, it's amazing how boring drunk people are when you're sober. But that doesn't mean that there aren't other people at the party who, while drinking a little, aren't completely toasted. At least I would hope so -- parties where EVERYBODY is there for the sole purpose of getting drunk are just dopey.</p>