Trying to figure out what the floor is for the Ivy league school. First time taking ACT scored a 30 and GPA has always been good but course work is getting harder and looking like a mix of A-/B+ in honors/AP classes. Good enough? Juts trying to come up with realistic expectations. Initial input from coach was good and athletics are really strong. This is for an Olympic sport. Only Yale, Cornell, Penn and Brown have programs.
Thanks for any insight even if it is move on…
It depends on the school, the sport and other factores., including how good you are at your sport.
But very generally, a 30 with a 3.7 UW is ballpark many times.
If you can get the act up to a 32/33 you’ll be golden at any ivy, though.
For varsity sports in the Ivy league - you can search for Academic Index to get a feel for the requirements. It varies a bit between different sports and schools, but I think @8bagels gave a good ballpark (or 700 per section if you’re using SAT).
But if you’re talking about a sport that isn’t played throughout the league, the AI may not be in play. It’s possible that this sport may just be an EC in the eyes of admissions in which case the application/scores will be evaluated like very other applicant. Ask the coach what he likes to see and if he has any spots/influence w admissions
Like the others have said, your stats certainly seem to put you at least in the conversation. That said, the coaches will tell you what targets you need to hit in order to be recruitable at that particular school. Otherwise, there are really too many variables to give any kind of reliable information. I would reach out to the schools you are in contact with and list your stats. Based on my son’s recruiting experience, coaches will not be shy about telling you what they will need you to do.
Good luck!
Either way, given that’s your first and only ACT score, you should definitely take it again, and work hard to improve it.
If you can get it up, you’ll have a lot more “elite” college options, including at places where the academics are just as high, but the athletics are somewhat less focused on.
NESCAC schools like Williams, Amherst, Tufts, etc. and others like Swat, etc.
Those places generally don’t give as much “leeway” to athletes. For the most part (other than very few special cases in football and hockey), athletes need to meet the student body averages, which means without a 32/33 ACT (or SAT equivalent) and close to a 3.9UW, odds are slim. It’s very difficult for non-fball or hockey to get into any of those with a 30 ACT.
But the upside is the athletics aren’t quite as competitive.
So, if you can get that ACT up a few points, you’ll find you’ll have a lot more options at the beginning of your Sr. year. 3 points can make a world of difference.
It depends on how good you are at your sport. I know a student at an Ivy with an SAT score 300 points below the school’s average, but he is really, REALLY good at his sport. The Ivies will bend admissions much further than any division 3 school to get the athlete they want. Not as much as Alabama will, but they will bend a lot.
At HYP 300 points below the school averages of around 2250 is still 1950, well above 90th percentile. The overall school averages are a bit lower at the other five Ivies but still above 2150.
There are some Ivy recruits 300 points below the school average, but with the constraints of the Academic Index having to be within one standard deviation of the overall school average, I believe the math dictates that’s going to be a limited number of recruits in a few priority sports.
At some of the top academic D1 schools outside the Ivy League (e.g. Duke, Stanford), there can be greater divergences as they’re not constrained by the Academic Index.
The AI also includes GPA, so a good GPA can make it so that the SAT can be lower. Also, they’ll count subject tests scores if that will help bring up the AI (but not count them if it would hurt).
They’ll also often do a “blend” of the entire recruiting class. So if they are bringing in 2 kids, and one has a 2400 SAT, the second kid can be much lower than the school average. Subject to nobody being below a 170 AI, but 170 is a low number that can include a shockingly low SAT/ACT.
The blending thing is why you’ll sometimes see strange things. Like the HS basketball kid recruiting by Harvard off the HS JV team for his high AI.
For priority sports, you can see some SATs lower than 1950, for sure.
I know 2 top athletes recruited at IVYs both with SAT scores in 1800’s. It will all depend on how badly the coach wants you and what the other recruits scores are.
Thanks for the insights. Sport is gymnastics and unfortunately recruiting is insane and extremely early and very difficult to find the right academic and athletic fit. Coaches have indicated she is ballpark it’s just so hard not to stress over every test trying to hold out until pre reads knowing that even walk on spots have waiting lists at this point. Need to come up with some alternate plans just in case. Hard to handle the advanced course load when the sport practices 25 plus hours year round…but I’m sure everyone here feels that pain. Thanks again. Lots of valuable insight here
@flinnt12, I imagine the fact the women’s gymnastics is a D1 headcount sport adds a wrinkle to the recruiting as well.Potential full scholarship vs need-based in the Ivies.
I assume she’s a junior?
My son was a high academic athletic recruit (Ivy, Williams/Amherst etc). And several of his classmates were, too.
Some things I learned:
For sports, GPA and SAT ACT are very important. Class rigor is less so. We’ve seen kids go to play sports at Harvard and Yale that have not had very rigorous courseloads (surprisingly easy, in fact). Based on what I’ve seen, for someone who is truly a great D1 level athlete, taking a super rigorous course load and getting a bunch of Bs in APs is a bad result (all the schools use unweighted GPA).
But there’s a risk in not taking a rigorous courseload. If you don’t make an Ivy team, the easy courseload will shut a lot of doors at the NESCAC and other high academic D3s. My son had a very rigorous courseload, but he had 1 very high academic D3 question one particular class. Yet, his courseload was no issue at any Ivy.
Most sports are year round these days for serious athletes. And yeah, it really tough junior year with a bunch of APs and Honors courses, plus the sports schedule. Junior year was tough!
Coaches cast a wide net and say a lot of things. You need to listen very carefully and objectively. They like to keep as many decent prospects on line. Until you are explicitly offered a slot with full support, it’s all just talk.
If they are submitting recruits for pre reads, and you’re not one of them, they aren’t interested.
Keep the grades as high as possible, take the SAT/ACT several times for superscoring and to maximize score, and do what you have to do in your particular sport. Grades/GPA/sport ranking is the three-legged stool, all three need to be as strong as possible.
Good luck!
Here are my .02. Our d has many friends who are gymnasts… all levels…several that are level 10-elite. From what I can gather from the parents, as long as the grades/test scores are good the Ivy’s/D1 schools are mostly interested in those athletes who have experience at Nationals or placed really high at regionals. One of her friends(level 10), a couple of years ago was recruited, coaches emailed, encouraged her to come to camps, talked about OV visits etc. However when fall rolled around the coaches started to backtrack, asked to see transcripts again and at the end did not offer any OV. and stopped communicating. The whole process was very disheartening for her, especially given how much time/years she spent in the sport. Also, she did not look at gymnastics programs in less academic schools because she was a great student… and is now attending a very prestigious university. However, the price for her academics was giving up her sport. Has your D gone to Nationals or the NIT?
Most coaches will tell you they are interested but until admissions has all your transcripts and your test scores it is not serious. It’s not until admissions tells the coach that they will accept you that the serious talks begin. Until then it’s all talk. And I also agree with @cheetahgirl121 that they are looking for highly national ranked athletes. Sometimes at an IVY a coach is also looking for that very strong academic student so that he can take on a top athlete with an academic record below the AI score. the 2 athletes I know that went to IVYs for their sports were both under the AI score and the coaches had to recruit lesser athletes with top AI scores to get them.
@Cheetahgirl121 and Amy989 yes to both Nationals and NIT even placing top three AA and number 1 in events so her gymnastics is quite good and she should be very competitive for an Ivy spot. She has had interest from lesser academic schools for scholarship spots to which we have said that it wouldn’t be a great academic fit and also walk on interest from highly ranked gymnastics schools. Their scholarship spots have been filled since pre-school. She realizes that the four years academically are more important but loves the team-environment that college gym offers -but the thought of giving up the sport is also not inviting - in fact, I think she would consider it tragic. I’m sure other sports are the same but gymnastics is quite political regarding the gyms they look at etc. and being invited to schools and meeting the other gymnasts, there are many great athletes out there who don’t and may not have spots, even if they now outplace the girls who committed early. I can’t fault any of the dealings we have had with the Ivy schools - they do seem very up front and interested and those visits have been very positive experiences. That isn’t the same for some other ‘highly ranked’ academic schools where dealings have been pretty immature on their part. We have been dealing with this since Freshman year and I feel like I could write a book on it at this point. I think in the end it will all work out…but it is hard to convince a 16-year old of that and sometimes myself…will keep hoping for Ivy as I think that is an amazing opportunity but will try to develop a strong plan B as well. As you know, the coach makes the difference as well. Thanks again and more insight always appreciated!
Well placing that high at nationals should definitely put her in the conversation. Would she consider a school like
UNC or Alabama? Is she home schooled?
She is not homeschooled. We tried UNC - they don’t seem that interested for whatever reason and have filled their spots though she is still considering a walk-on there potentially - I think politics came into play there - they went with someone who has not gone to Nationals but goes to a well-known gym (and, in all honesty is a beautiful gymnast and a super nice girl so can’t really complain as we are happy for her…). Not sure she would get to compete at Alabama - they are very highly ranked and ideally she would like to be at a school where she has a chance of competing on at least a few events. It’s like a puzzle! Academics, Gymnastics, Competition-likely, Coach, Location, Weather, Interest etc. More like a Rubriks cube…
Good that she is not homeschooled, Ivies adcoms (and probably the coaches) will like that. It means that she can balance her sport and academics in sub-optimal conditions. She is in the ball park for all of them although for Yale having 31ACT/3.8GPA would be safer.
@Flinnt12 - as the parent of a former Ivy athlete, a current Ivy athlete and a current non-Ivy D1 athlete, but with no gymnastics experience, I love your Rubriks cube analogy. Also, I completely agree with your priority line-up. If there is any chance of her improving upon her ACT that would only help, along with maintaining the best grades she can, but she is definitely already within range for an athlete who is clearly performing at the highest level of her sport for her age. If a coach really wants her, with the stats she already has, I don’t foresee a big problem with admissions. Of course, that is just my opinion, and no doubt the admissions dance between the coach and the AO is unique to each sport at each school, and Ivy AI balance within the team’s recruits.