<p>For me, parents should be available help their children and, occassionally, offer some loving words and advice. Otherwise, let the kid make their own mistakes and figure out what they want to do with their lives. My parents push me in that they've set high expectations, but most of the actual prep for admissions (standardized testing, school work, extracurriculars and transportation), I've had to figure out for myself. It's great that you all are so involved with your children's futures and you SHOULD try to provide every advantage you can for them! However, make sure you're not fighting their battles for them.</p>
<p>Tabula, I wasn't cheerleading Chicago, I was merely refuting your over the top statements implying that Chicago and any other school's pre med programs not covered in ivy or ivy wanna be are facing near unsurmountable obstacles while Harvard undergrads are an automatic in.</p>
<p>The link I gave should be all anyone needs to see that their child doesn't have to give up med school dreams because they didn't get into HYP. POIH has sniffed at Mich and yet if he actually did some research he'd discover that Mich and quite a number of very fine schools place kids in med school at rates similar to Harvard's.(Take a look at JHU)</p>
<p>You've also made some erroneous assertions regarding grade deflation and admissions that have been refuted by far better people than me(if you do a search you'll find a CC poster involved in med school admissions who discussed that rigor of premed program and quality of undergrad institution is always taken into account...so yeah, science brainiacs at Cal tech and Chicago aren't out of luck because they decided to intellectually challenge themselves...and do you really want to argue that some kid with extensive grad level research on his plate is not going to be cut some slack if his gpa is slightly lower?) </p>
<p>I have no real problem with POIH being involved with his child's college search, what concerns me is that people are viewing an admission into the ivy league as a end in itself. It's as if that admission is seen as a line demarcating social classes. That once in (their child)they've made it. Not only is this not true but armed with such an attitude, I fear that child of POIH will be in for more than a few knocks.(Does he really expect his child's non ivy boss is going to be impressed/intimidated by an ivy degree? Really?)</p>
<p>Education should be about making the most of oneself, discovering your strengths and testing your weaknesses. Shouldn't the kid ultimately decide what arena(school) this takes place at?</p>
<p>"I was merely refuting your over the top statements implying that Chicago and any other school's pre med programs not covered in ivy or ivy wanna be are facing near unsurmountable obstacles while Harvard undergrads are an automatic in."</p>
<p>Do you listen to other people or READ? You merely repeat your statements over and over again. I never said that Harvard undergrads are an automatic in, or that other schools' premeds face "unsurmountable obstacles." It's just a fact that some schools have better premed curriculums and advising than others. The end. That doesn't mean that premeds from lower-tiered schools can't get into the best schools; I reiterated that point SEVERAL times in my past posts. And looking at your past posts, you are a Chicago cheerleader. There's nothing wrong with that; parents are understandably proud of their children's schools. (After all, parents are footing the bill ;)) But, that doesn't make Chicago the best school for everything. Chicago's premed is not the best.</p>
<p>"You've also made some erroneous assertions regarding grade deflation and admissions that have been refuted by far better people than me(if you do a search you'll find a CC poster involved in med school admissions who discussed that rigor of premed program and quality of undergrad institution is always taken into account...so yeah, science brainiacs at Cal tech and Chicago aren't out of luck because they decided to intellectually challenge themselves)."</p>
<p>Numerous Caltech students on this board have mentioned that Caltech, because of its rigorous Core, is not necessarily the best place for premeds. If I do a search "I'll find a CC poster" who agrees with you? OK...who is this random CC poster? Because a Caltech student (Ben Golub) on this board who was a <em>student representative on the Caltech admissions committee</em> has said that premeds might do better at other schools. I'd take his advice over that of your random CC poster. And the random CC poster you mentioned isn't even arguing the same thing; although medical schools will take the rigor of the curriculum into account, the school's rigor will NOT be enough to overcome a significantly lower GPA. I never said that a SLIGHTLY lower GPA at a rigorous school is going to reduce someone's chances.</p>
<p>Ah, yes! Ramses 2's monomaniacal UChicago "cheerleading."
CCers: If you're up for a good laugh--and let's face it, who among us isn't?--and you like your pseudo-intellectualism bitter, check out ramses 2's other posts. :)</p>
<p>It depends.</p>
<p>I know a girl whose parents don't care about her getting a higher education. Basically, she's had to do everything on her own: finding schools to apply to, fill out the application and write essays and complete any other requirements, and find the money... all on her own. </p>
<p>Then again, I know there are parents who want to make all of the decisions for their child, even though college - being a stepping stone into adulthood - should be what the kid wants too. They figure that they're paying for the education, so it should be based on their choices.</p>
<p>I think there needs to be a happy medium. Parents are still parents, and have responsibilities - such as guiding their son or daughter so that they don't have to do everything on their own. Still, part of their responsibility is to not be overwhelmingly controlling.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think that most of the parents on this board care too much. If my parents went on this board and kept talking to me about the importance of SATs and taking APs, whatever... I'd kill myself under the pressure or whatever. I know that many of my friends have overinvolved parents (Asian) and they are all suicidal/very depressed. Parental overinvolvement / pressure probably isn't the only factor in their miserable states, but .. it certainly does contribute.</p>
<p>over-pressured by parents is by far worse than being under-pressured by parents. think of the worst situations for each one:</p>
<p>over-pressured:
stress leads to depression leads to suicide before HS graduation</p>
<p>under-pressured:
takes it too easy, 2.0 GPA, can't get into a decent college, ends up working at mcdonalds</p>
<p>life working at mcdonalds or no life at all?</p>
<p>Being from an underpriviliged area and having an extremely modest background, my parents were under the impression that all colleges are the same thing and that as long as you have a degree from somewhere, anywhere, you will be set for life. While I agree that students who go to a state school and students who go to a tier 1 school can end up in the same place after graduation, I disagree that all schools are the same. What I mean is, there is a big difference between a tech school, a small LAC, and a research university. They didn't seem to understand what I was trying to tell them and were inexperienced with the college application process. Compounding the problem, they cannot read English because it is not their first language. I was basically on my own with everything: FAFSA, CSS/PROFILE (which I didn't know even existed until like the very day it was due for most of my schools), college applications, etc. I chose my schools, I visited campuses, I made sure everything was done in an orderly and timely fashion. And all of my life, it has been up to me to push myself. When my school mixed up my schedule and left me out of AP English, I was upset and my parents couldn't understand why. They told me it was just a class and it was up to me and me alone to resolve the problem. I got no SAT prep (meaning I didn't take any classes) because my parents refused (and couldn't afford) to pay $1000 for me to take a class to learn how to take a test. Once again, it was up to me to buy review books and prepare myself for the SAT.</p>
<p>I honestly think this has made me a better person. I don't really depend on other people for things; if I want something to get done, I do it. I'm not afraid of doing things myself and I'm definitely not afraid to ask questions if I need help. By not breathing down my neck, my parents allowed me to grow up and become my own individual, independent and what my friends like to call "street savvy" along with book smart. Do I think this system works for everyone? No. Is it the best system? Probably not. I think some support would be good. What I am trying to say is, parents shouldn't be overly involved in their child's life or else they may never grow up. Some of my friends don't even make their own beds or wash dishes; they have mommy and daddy for that. That, IMO, is just sad and I would love to see what becomes of them in college when they have to do their own laundry.</p>
<p>Working at McDonald's may not be the choice of most people here, but it is certainly more respectable than many outcomes (And, there are actually a lot of opportunities for career advancement at McDonalds as well). :)</p>
<p>Here's my take, as a parent, a counselor, and someone who has listened to many, many students talking about the stress they feel from the fear of "letting my parents down" if they don't get into a certain college or level of college:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I definitely think we parents are part of the problem in many cases. We all want the best for our kids, but sometimes, in our pursuit of "the best" we lose sight of what our kids really need and want both in terms of our help, and their college experience. </p></li>
<li><p>Parents are not the ones who are going to spend the next four (or more) years of their life slogging through exams, college social life drama, and dorm hassles. Our children are. Therefore, the ultimate decision of where to attend
(or even whether to go to college at all) should be theirs. Period. They may not choose the school or path WE would, but WE are not the ones who will be living the experience.</p></li>
<li><p>Parenting is all about letting go. From the moment your child takes their first step, you are letting go. When your child is first learning to walk, it's tempting to clutch their hands to keep them from falling down, because - wow! - it's scary to see our babies fall down. We don't want them to get hurt. But, to learn to walk, babies HAVE to fall down sometimes. That's how they develop balance and confidence that they can pick themselves back up and keep going. So, you child proof the house to make sure there are no sharp edges, and you may hover behind them until they find their sea legs, but then you have to step back and let them learn to walk, bumps and falls included.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>It's pretty much the same thing, I think, with college and career choices. It's tempting to hold on tight to our kids' hands as they go through the college application process because, well, it's scary to see our babies fall down. But, to become an adult, our babies HAVE to fall down sometimes. That's the way they become self-sufficient adults, and learn to pick themselves up when things don't go according to plan. </p>
<p>Still, that doesn't mean you shouldn't support your child as they go through the process. For some kids "supporting them through the process" might mean helping with the nitty gritty details of applications, for others that may mean just letting them know that you are proud of them and believe that their choices will work out in the end. But, if you're clutching your kids' hand at every step of the way, you're denying them a chance to learn to walk on their own, bumps and falls included. And, you're probably driving yourself a little crazy as well.</p>
<ul>
<li>Most kids DO want and need <em>some</em> support and even hands on help. Let's face it, putting yourself out there to be rejected or admitted by strangers is pretty scary business. But, when parents rush in to "protect" their child by stepping in every time something doesn't go according to the parent's plan or timetable, many kids actually start to feel that their parents don't believe they're good enough. And, that's when, I think, parental involvement goes too far: When you are actually adding "more" stress to the process than you're alleviating.</li>
</ul>
<p>And here's a very important point: No ONE can control every aspect of the college admissions process. Both students and parents have to accept that fact at some point, and not drive themselves crazy trying to control the uncontrollable.</p>
<ul>
<li>Finally, some parents get confused and think that they'll be viewed as "better" parents by the rest of the world if their kids get into school X or school Y. The truth is, the measure of being a successful parent isn't where your kid goes to college, or even IF they go to college. The measure of a successful parent is that you've helped your child grow into a well-adjusted adult who can function on their own. That means we have to trust our babies to be able to pick themselves up if they make mistakes, including mistakes in their college application process.</li>
</ul>
<p>You are the most intense parent on the planet. That is why people have been bring it up. You need to back off and not live vicariously.</p>
<p>^You have got to be kidding me. POIH isn't even that bad - all he's ever done was written a couple of posts on CC.</p>
<p>You haven't seen bad until you see it in real life. Sadly, the pressure to succeed is very real.</p>
<p>^^I agree. I think he is very brave to express his daughter's ambition on this board.</p>
<p>....yeah, his bravery is inspiring....? How him posting on an internet forum about his daughter's elite list of schools is brave, I'll never know... Are you serious? To call that bravery is truly ignorant.</p>
<p>JuJu, you do realize that if anyone does a search on my posts they'll only discover what an absolute prat you actually are?</p>
<p>I said brave because he has to put up with a lot of posts like collegekid period.</p>