What Is Each Kid's Real EFC When Two Are In School At The Same Time

Paying for College
1

This is probably a dumb question, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Just call me dummy from now on :slight_smile:
Or RunningOnEggShells :slight_smile:

I’ve run the NPC at a few schools using two different scenarios - the first one I’ll be in, when my oldest starts college, and the second one I’ll be in, when my second child starts school two years later.

In the first scenario, our EFC is 63K or 65K, whatever the cost of the school is. Under the second scenario, our EFC is something like 84K.

Under scenario two, I’m assuming I would have to pay 42K for each kid if they’re both attending private schools in the 60K - 65K range. But what if the second child goes to a state school for 25K? Does child one’s private school that spit out 42K as their EFC adjust their EFC and come back with 59K (84K - 25K), since the sibling will be attending a cheaper school?

I’m guessing this is how it works, but just making sure.

2

I would think your EFC with two would be more like $77K (institutional EFC tends to be 60% for each when two are in school). As far as how the school would consider a lower priced college for the other child, I think it depends on the school. Other people will have more experience there.

3

If it is a school that costs $70k, it is likely you’ll need to complete the CSS also. That will be a different EFC for each student and each school.

Schools don’t always award the COA - EFC =financial aid. In fact most don’t.

4

Thanks for the responses @“Erin’s Dad” and @twoinanddone.

I just realized that I gave incorrect information. The EFC that I got when I ran the NPC with 2 kids in school was 42K, not 84K, like I said above.

So here’s my question again. If I run the NPC for two different schools - one for D1 and one for D2 - and they both come back with an EFC of 42K, does that mean I’ll have to pay 42K for each school, assuming both kids go to schools with COA’s greater than 42K?

And now, second question again, if D1 goes to a school that costs less than 42K, will I still get 42K for D2, who attends the more expensive school?

I realize that the CSS might change the exact numbers, but I guess I’m wondering more about the general way the schools combine the EFC’s for multiple kids.

5

I haven’t seen this addressed here before. I’m kind of curious too. Off the top of my head, I do think the CSS Profile asks questions about how much you paid (and/or plan to pay) for the other child. I guess a school could use this to say “Hey your other kid got a free ride (or is going to a cheaper school) so we don’t need to give you any/as much aid”.

Maybe someone else can share their experience with that situation.

6

@WalknOnEggShells & @ClaremontMom – There are several things in play when it comes to evaluating your financial aid picture with multiple kids in school at the same time. The base for everything is your EFC. I defer to @“Erin’s Dad” as to the percentages. From my own experience, private colleges allocate evenly among the number of household kids in school. State schools take a higher percentage. In any case, it is critical to understand that the EFC, as well as the NPC, are only guidelines. No matter, you will be put into the pool of available funds and assigned a pro rata share that may meet all, some or none of your EFC/NPC numbers at all. It varies from school to school. This is why it is worth comparing and contrasting financial aid packages as well as considering going back to your top choices to see if there is more money. If your child is particularly valuable to a top choice and/or if more funds have become available from kids who chose other schools, there may well be more money for you. At the time you fill out the CSS, you will probably only know the published all-in costs of your prospective schools. The benefit to expensive private schools is that even if you get money down the line, you can honestly fill out the form showing full price. The problem with state schools is that, while you get the benefit of lower in-state tuition, you can’t put a higher number on the CSS. This will certainly be counted against you and will result in the other school asking for a higher percentage of the EFC. One other thing to keep in mind. The term “financial aid” as used by colleges does not mean what normal people understand it to mean. The first monies are almost always whatever EFC or portion thereof the college puts on you plus $10-15k in loans and work study. You will be pretty deep in before the school goes into its own pocket, if ever. Good luck!!

7

I think @WalknOnEggShells is trying to determine what (in general) colleges do so she/he can keep that in mind when making decisions for kid 1. if kid 1 goes to expensive U and kid 2 goes to cheap U (or gets lots of merit), will “expensive U” still decide their EFC is 42K (in this example) or will they decide, “hey you can afford more than that” and determine an EFC that is higher.

Granted there are lots of variables, and yes, they might not even meet need…and yes some of that may be loans. But I think the OP’s question is still an interesting one. And, yes, it probably differs from college to college. But just as @“Erin’s Dad” made the general comment of 60% (which I’ve heard quite often here), I think OP is also looking for a simple generalization on this situation.

8

That’s what I was thinking. It makes sense that they would do that.

Wow, that’s interesting. Are you saying that they never go back and check which school the younger sibling chose and how much aid they got? If that’s true, that’s pretty crazy. I guess that only works in the year that the younger sibling is first entering college. In the subsequent years, the younger sibling’s specific college and approximate costs will be known at the time you’re filling out the CSS.

One other question - it seems like people mention their total EFC for all kids in college in many threads I’ve seen. And they come on here asking how that total EFC will be divided between the siblings. And whether they’ll actually get half the total EFC for each kid, or some fraction of that number.

I seem to be looking at it the other way around. I believe what I have is an EFC for one kid, based on the fact that two kids will be in college.

Let me be clear about what I’m doing. I’m going to specific colleges’ NPC calculators. Sometimes the NPC web page is an independent site run by the specific college, but more often, when I google and find a link for a college’s NPC calculator, it ends up redirecting me to the college board’s web site where my financial information is already saved. It still takes me through the wizard and asks me the same questions, but my answers are pre-filled with what is saved on the college board’s site. Sometimes there are a few questions specific to that school. For example, some schools ask for SAT scores.

When I run one of these NPC’s and I say that I have only one child in college, it gives me a number like 65K for EFC. This is obviously our EFC for that child, who happens to be our only child in school. But when I run it for 2 kids, the EFC comes back as 42K. This clearly has to be the EFC for just the kid I’m running the EFC for, not both.

Are people getting a total EFC for the whole family from some other site? I think I remember seeing that somewhere.

9

No, you only get an EFC per kid…

I don’t really remember seeing it as you described, but if people are doing that, they are probably just adding up the two numbers, like you did in the OP.

10

OK, thanks for the clarification. I just remembered where I saw the other EFC calculator - on FinAid.org.

You’re right - it gives the EFC per child, too. It shows a little bit of detail on how they do the calculation(the NPC’s don’t), but they don’t break out the aid into loans and grants the way the NPC calculators do. Except they do show Pell Grants on a separate line at FinAid.org.

The other weird thing is that the FinAid calculator calculates 0 for “Scholarships and Other Resources” when I have 2 kids in college. This is very different than what I get from the individual colleges’ NPC’s. The breakdown of loans vs. grants varies quite a bit by college, but they all give something when I have 2 in college.

So it looks like that calculator at FinAid.org is useless, and actually misleading.

11

Forgot something. I don’t think I understand the 60% rule of thumb. Do you take the EFC per child and take 60% of it, and that’s what that child’s real EFC is? That sounds too good to be true.

12

I still think you are assuming you will only pay the EFC for your child to go to school. Unless it is a meets full need school, there might be NO need based/institution granted aid. With an EFC above the federal aid amounts (about $5500 for the Pell grant), you may see no need based aid at all. The first year my kids were in school (one public, one private) the combined COA was about $85k, and the combined EFC was about $38k. How much did the schools expect me to pay? $85k. How much institutional need based aid was offered? $0. But shouldn’t they have given us over $40k in aid since the EFC was so much lower than the COA? You’d think so, but that isn’t how it works. These are not ‘meets full need’ schools, but MOST schools are not. The schools expect us to pay for college with merit aid, loans, savings, and current income.

The FAFSA EFC considers how many students are in school, but doesn’t ask what you pay for that other child’s school as long as it is not a service academy. One of my kids has almost full COA covered, but the EFC for her sister just considers that there is another child in school, not what the cost is. I think the CSS schools do care about what you are paying for the sibling.

13

This means if your EFC for one kid is $40K at college A, and then the second kid starts school, you can generally expect an EFC of 60% of the $40K ($24K) not the 50% you would probably have assumed (2 kids so 1/2 the price).

Edited to clarify: That $24K would be the EFC for Kid 1 at College A. Kid 2 at College B would have his/her own EFC.

14

@twoinanddone, thanks for the details. Interesting about the difference between the CSS and FAFSA. It probably sounded like I was putting too much faith in the EFC, but I am aware that not all schools meet need.

I’ve been running the NPC’s for the specific schools we’re interested in, so I know which ones claim to meet need and which ones don’t. And I’ve heard that you can’t put too much faith in the estimates coming out of the NPC’s either.

Did you run the NPC calculators for the schools your kids are attending? Did the calculators come back and say that you would receive no grant (non loan) money? If not, that’s kind of scary.

15

Thanks @ClaremontMom, I’ve got it now.

16

@twoinanddone, just to follow up on the idea of EFC. It’s actually a very misleading concept. I understand the reason for it. It’s basically a measure of how much money you supposedly have to pay for college.

It should really be called MFC - Minimum Family Contribution. That would prevent a lot of confusion.

I’m going to shoot an email off to the college board and set them straight :slight_smile:

17

Yep, both NPCs said they would receive exactly $0 in need based aid, and that’s what they got. They did get aid from the schools but merit aid. Both NPCs were exactly correct for those amounts too.

Our financial situation was pretty easy so the calculators worked. Both showed the loans we (parent and student) were eligible for, one had a state grant included and two minor school grants.

18

Love it! :))

I don’t think we ever got an answer to the original question…do they consider the out of pocket costs for the other kid when determining EFC?

I just confirmed that the CSS Profile does ask how much was tuition, room and board, what scholarships and grants were received and how much did parent’s pay in the previous year. It also asks how much fees for the coming year will be and how much the parents expect to pay.

So, since they are asking the questions, I assume it does play at least some part in the final number.

As twoinanddone mentioned, the FAFSA doesn’t ask these questions, so at a FAFSA only school it wouldn’t play a part.

19

As with so many things, it depends on the school. Some schools, with a sibling also in college, have a form to be filled out by the FA office at the sibling’s school that details the COA at the sibling’s school as well as the parent contribution amount, scholarship/grant aid received, amount of loans (student and parent), and other relevant information. Obviously, this information will be used when determining EFC for the student.

20

Responding to @ClaremontMom, perhaps I should be more specific to @WalknOnEggShells query. In the fall of 2016 we will have 3 children in undergraduate school at the same time. When we had 1 in 2015-2016 our EFC was around $52k. With 3 in 2016-2017 or EFC is $15k. This number is generated solely by the FAFSA and has nothing to do with the CSS Profile or with any NPC. As WalkOnEggShells noted, the EFC is more accurately described as an MFC. This is because schools view the EFC, as well as the NPC results, as guidelines, not definitive obligations to provide aid.

Based on the foregoing, D1, at a top OSS with a projected COA of close to $60k, has to put up approximately $10k in loans and work study + 40% of our total EFC (3 X $15k = $45k) or an additional $20k. The school offered us $24k in grant aid, about 80% of the EFC-based projected need, with any difference from a recommended PLUS loan. D2, at a top art school with a projected COA of again close to $60k, puts up the aforementioned $10k + 1/3 of our total EFC for a total of $25k. The school offered $25k, about 70% of what our EFC supposedly ‘deserves’, leaving $10k to our own resources. S1 is a recruited athlete at a school that does not give athletic scholarships and which has a COA in excess of $70k. That school gave $52k in grant aid, more than 200% of our projected “need” + $4k in work study.

These examples are from the schools to which our children will attend in 2016-20017. The financial aid awards from all of the schools to which they were accepted during the admissions process ran the gamut from full, EFC-calculated aid to absolutely nothing. One school started with the standard $10k in loans and work study, added our family contribution of $15k, and then recommended that we gain the balance (nearly $32k) in the form of a PLUS loan, I.e., the school offered absolutely no money out of its own pocket.

The takeaways from these examples are: (1) Schools will not absolutely honor the projected entitled need based on the EFC/NPC; (2) If you are lucky, they will come close; (3) OSS are less likely to meet this need and, in any case, will apply a higher percentage when calculating your EFC, and (4) If your kid is a recruited athlete, musician, artist or anything else, thank your lucky stars!

As you surmise, the first year is kind of a bye in terms of identifying exactly how much we are expending for college. D1 and D2’s schools do not know that S1’s school is basically giving him a full ride. Next year will be different. Not quite sure how that will all play out, but am hopeful, with some careful planning, that we can perhaps preserve more than less…

My final advice on this is NEGOTIATE. You have to be realistic in knowing the strength of your hand, but the ability of schools to give financial aid changes as other applicants accept and, more importantly, decline offers of admission. Your child was accepted at each school for a reason. At some your child will be more valuable than others, but the fact remains your child is a product in demand by consumers. Use that leverage carefully and to the best of your advantage.