Ask the financial aid office, not the admissions office. And yes, you should get an answer based on a school policy that you can bank on.
Thanks @BelknapPoint. Yes, makes sense - Financial Aid office. That’s good news. I’m going to start making some calls.
Does anyone know any specific schools, besides Carnegie Melon, as @privateID mentioned (thanks @privateID), that do not penalize you if your other kids have low COA’s?
I realize that the FAFSA schools won’t penalize you, so I’m talking specifically about CSS schools that won’t penalize you.
@dcplanner, is your son’s school a CSS school, or just FAFSA?
How is that a penalty? School B is just trying to determine need, if a famity acall has a child in Scool A. FAFSA formula ignores it, maybe because it would require too much verification and because the amount it constantly changing with tuition rising and perhaps additional scholaships being awarded late in the year. Schools giving out huge awards may not mind the extra calculations required to update. If the family is only paying $10k in tuition at a school that costs $60k, why should the second school give credit for paying $60k? If the first child is only paying $5k for a community college, why should the family get a credit for ‘another’ college tuition? FAFSA does do that, but is it any more fair? Just a different formula.
So if you call around to all these schools to find out if they are going to consider the actual amount paid to a school for a sibling, are you going to take them all off the list because they are considering your actual need? Would they be off the list if you had no other child in school and thus weren’t even paying the reduced tuition?
I’m pretty sure “penalty” in this case means “works against us in maximizing financial aid”. Sort of in the same way, someone might call having a lot of home equity or savings a “penalty”. It’s not, but it might feel like it.
Depending on the school, this info might also be online. For example, Duke doesn’t seem to care how much the siblings’ schools are *unless[/] it’s a full ride.
@WalknOnEggShells They use FAFSA and a choice between their own financial aid form or CSS.
@twoinanddone, what @ClaremontMom said.
I wrote that quickly. I didn’t mean I was literally being penalized. I meant that I would get less aid - that’s all. I wasn’t saying I deserved more.
But in answer to this question:
I would say, of course. I’ll take them off my list, because I won’t be able to afford them if I have to pay the full price. Because my “actual need” is not really my actual need. Let’s not get hung up on the word need. I realize my kids don’t “need” to go to a fancy private school, but if I’m going to agree to send my kids to a private school, I will need some money, because I don’t have much 
I have a better idea. Let’s call them “calculated need” and “real need if I’m going to be abe able to afford it”, or for short, “real need”. My “real need” is much higher than my “calculated need”, because I have a lot of debt and terrible cash flow. I know that’s all my fault and I’m a bad person, and I didn’t plan well, but it’s the reality of the situation.
So back to your question: "are you going to take them all off the list because they are considering your actual need? "
Yes, because my “calculated need” isn’t my “real need” so I won’t be able to afford it.
Maybe not. If I had only one to put through school, I might consider schools that give less aid, but a second one adds a lot more financial stress, even if they’re at a public school.
In both cases, they shouldn’t, but if they’re willing to give it to me, I’m certainly not going to turn it down because it’s not fair!. Maybe my use of the word penalty made you think that I think they SHOULD give it to me and that I deserve it. I don’t feel that way, but like I said, I’ll take it if they’re willing to give it.
Thanks @purpleacorn. That’s great that it’s spelled out right on their web site. I’m going to check out some others. Thanks for the info.
Thanks @dcplanner. Too bad they looked that deeply at the other school. I’m going to do some research on this. Thanks for the info.
Duke’s policy is not to consider community college tuition and not to consider full (not defined) athletic or merit aid for other students. It does consider tuition for secondary or elementary siblings, and FAFSA doesn’t do that. Each school is going to play with their formulas.
I think you just have to look at school’s overall need based aid policy. Taking a school off the list because it does consider the amount you pay for others may not be the best decision. That school may still give a lot more in need based aid to YOUR situation than a school that doesn’t consider the scholarships of the siblings.
OK, I see what you’re saying now. That makes sense. That makes things a little challenging, though. I was planning on talking my kids out of applying to any schools that I thought were unlikely to give aid, because I didn’t want them to fall in love with a school that we can’t afford. If it’s not so clear-cut which schools will give aid, that might be a bad approach.
This thread has been somewhat helpful but I am wondering if there is anyone here in a non straightforward situation? (though not uncommon I would think).
For our FAFSA only schools, I realize that all they will look at are the financials for myself, and my husband (remarriage). They will not consider my stepdaughter as a child in college as her mother files her FAFSA, despite the fact that we pay half.
However it is the Profile schools I am trying to get my arms around. I’ve run the NPC’s using the above scenario but know that CSS profile looks quite a bit deeper. Bio dad has zero income, assets, is in documented arrears (to the tune of full COA at our flagship for 4 years, sigh) and garnishments so that won’t increase my EFC/MFC. For a school that does the NCP Profile it’s going to be a pain but the documentation should there for a waiver as he would be unable to track down to complete any paperwork.
However, will the fact that my stepdaughter is in college and my H is paying half (and not any $ for my children who are below the desired savings category thanks to the deadbeat dad ) be looked at or considered at all? I realize I can enter child support on some of the NPC’s and suppose that may be all we can do but am hoping that is not the case.
In either scenario, when my second child is in school, with the first be modified at the same time, so a less expensive jr/sr year potentially? I could only see this helping in a meet need profile school or maybe an OOS situation but unlikely as they don’t meet full need.
Right now I get the following numbers using the college board site. I do need to re-run one schools NPC as this EFC did come in lower than a different site I used that asked me to enter the EFC (which was higher) and I trust this one a little more lol.
FAFSA 1 child $55,770
FAFSA 2 children $28,602 (showed as $27,444 when I entered my stepdaughter instead of mine?
Profile 1 child $50,319
Profile 2 children $33,692 (showed as $30,272 when I entered the step child instead of mine?)
The question I have is there any chance in holy heck that at a profile school…my EFC/MFC number will come down and there will be some need met. As we are just whittling down the list I am starting to question even considering some based on the NPC’s. Even with a student unsubsidized loan @$5500 a year (though some of the schools will allow more, it’s easier to just use that one across the board) I am still gapped anywhere from 6K annually -17K at most of the schools on our list besides the instate or exchange safeties. This does factor in all automatic merit shown in the NPC’s. As much as we are chasing merit I am not expecting those award numbers to go up a ton, all but one of the schools are showing some kind of merit award in their NPC.
Not all of my gapped schools are Profile schools but at 5 are. Only 2 out of the 5 ask for the NCP Profile though.
Any input is really welcome!
To me, for child one, if I am gapped at 6K…but that’s only for 2 years versus 4, well that makes a difference. I might be willing to do a small loan for the right school for a couple of years but right now it’s super depressing info.
@BrooklynRye so if I understand your scenario correctly, has your 1st child then had their package modified each year that you added an additional child?
I am trying to understand if, in a hypothetical scenario, we could afford a higher COA for years 1 and 2, until the next child was in college but that would be predicated on their package changing. I realize it would vary tremendously by school.
@mommdc was the taxable scholarship income based on school given grants from the previous year? or from an outside scholarship
@eandesmom - Wow. Wow. Will speak solely to our specific circumstances.
In 2015-2016 we had 1 child, D1, at UVA. The only financial aid we received were the federal subsidized and unsubsidized loans, a Perkins (in my daughter’s name), and federal work study. The school threw us a small amount of grant money based on a combination of merit and perhaps some competition with W&M.
For 2016-2017 we will have 3 children in college - D1 will be a sophomore at UVA. D2 will be freshman at RISD. S1 will be a freshman at Columbia.
Based on our 2015 returns and 2016 CSS Profile, Columbia met 100% of our demonstrated need based on the FAFSA EFC. Columbia does not meet need with loans and, therefore, all money, with the exception of a small federal work study component, is in the form of grants. These grants totaled more than $50k. Including the work study, which S1 will do, this will bring the COA down to around $15-20k.
Based on the same data, RISD offered all of the federal loans I listed above for D1 plus a $25k grant. Leaving aside the loan funds (which we would still have to repay), this brings the COA down to around $30-35k.
In addition to its federally-mandated NPC, UVA has an additional calculator relating to returning students who are filing an amended FAFSA and appealing their freshman aid package. Based on this calculator, the school would give us approximately $25k in grant monies. Again, leaving aside the loans but retaining the work study which D1 insists on doing, the COA would be down to around $30k. We have not yet received official word from student financial services.
This is still a mega-nut to carry – Around $75-85k for 2016-2017, but it is for 3 tremendous undergraduate schools and we are all counting our blessings. In subsequent years, the continuation of such aid is dependent on the relative stability of our income and situation as documented in the FAFSA.
A couple of wrinkles. Both RISD and UVA advised that they are not bound to split the FAFSA EFC equally among our three children in determining each school’s pro rata share. UVA takes 40-45% of the total EFC. I believe RISD took 40%. Columbia took a straight 1/3 of our EFC.
Good luck!
@BrooklynRye thank you so much!
So the 75-85 for the 16-17 year is your total OOP costs after all grants and aid, leaving the rest as either loans (subsidized, unsubsidized, perkins) or direct payments? Yeah, that is a mega nut! The idea of that for 4 years adding up is GULP!!! In theory then, D2 and S1 could go up in COA their senior year, correct?
Very nice package at Columbia, congratulations!
Very helpful info. I start to “gap” once we get past a COA of about 32K after merit awards and grants although lower is far more comfortable. At that point I would need to look at additional loans and need to determine if I let S go forward with some schools, hoping the gap can be bridged, go forward with some assuming that some kind of adjustment is probable for years 3 and 4. Or drop some where the gap seems insurmountable to just go ahead with whatever and see what happens. Not willing to take on a huge nut of a loan for one or both, but might do small for either or both. I don’t mind them each having 22-25k on their own (and expect to pay it off for them or help).
Another 40-50k total in parent loans for 4 years for the 2 of them…ok, that’s a car payment/new car (a nice one but still!) I can deal with that if I have to, if I feel the school is really worth it. But more than that…is why knowing if there is even a chance of a year one adjustment at a profile school would help cull the list. His stats aren’t going to change enough to garner a ton more. At a couple of schools it could move us out of gap range but for most of them, it won’t change as best I can tell.
S knows the budget so the money talk isn’t an issue but time involved in applications, showing interest, essays, etc is!
@eandesmom - Genuinely feel that so many of us are in the same boat in so many ways when it comes to this process. Yes, $75-85k is our total OOP for 2016-2017. It may be higher if the final offer from UVA is less than we expect but that’s about right.
Actually, we have a 4th child, S2. He will go into college the year after D1 graduates, when S1 & D2 are seniors. So the 3 in school will continuefor a 4th year. S2 will get the benefit his freshman year. The fan will really be hit in S2’s final 3 years when he will be our only child in college. Lord help us! We will have to very seriously look at S2’s choice of schools, much in the way you are doing now, with an eye towards those final 3 years.
Knowing D1 would be in school solo her freshman year we did a bit of this analysis. For better or worse, D1 was the valedictorian of her graduating class, speaks 3 languages, was editor-in-chief of the newspaper and president of the national honor society. She was simply too driven, too gifted and hardworking to deny her a shot at the school of her dreams. I shuttled back and forth between UVA and W&M actually trying to pit them against each other as my understanding is that it is unusual for an OOS to be accepted by both of these top VA public schools. It worked in any event and we were able to afford her first year. Now comes the tough part only to be followed by the even tougher…
Please share, at least when your children decide, as I think we can all benefit by your analysis, research and school choices.
Following this thread with awe and dread. Awe that you all are so well-versed in the financial aid arena and dread for our EFC when DS17 matriculates. My question for all of you is do we get credit if the older child is in graduate/law or medical school? Or does the 2 in school only count for undergrad? D and S will be in undergrad together for one year.
Only undergrad counts.
It depends on the school. Some schools count grad school as two in college- my daughter’s school does.
That’s interesting, @twogirls. Do you feel comfortable identifying your daughter’s school? Always thought (agreeing with @dcplanner ) that grad school never counts. Wonder if there is a list of schools that count grad schools in financial aid. Would be immeasurably useful!