<p>"Asians are NOT all smart. it's just that they work hard."</p>
<p>Bull. Workhard? Yah right - rare amoung my Asian friends. Just naturally talented, generally. Same for Indiands.</p>
<p>Your friends must have been born or raised in America, cuz trust me working unbelievably hard, is like a disease in India or sumthing. For every 500 seats in engineering there'll be 500,000 guys and girls working their backsides off. Such a situation doesn't hold much for people like me.</p>
<p>"Just naturally talented, generally"</p>
<p>I strongly disagree... i dont think being smarter than other races is an intrinsic value... As a Korean who was born and raised there, I know how people study their ass off over there... I dont know about the acceptance rate over there, but one thing for sure is that regardless of how tough your school may be in the states, Korean schools are by far much harder...</p>
<p>They are just used to it and that is why they are able to handle pretty much anything. U guys probably have seen international students who can hardly speak English get 1400s and 1500s on the (Old) SAT. That's because they prep so much for the standarized tests. In Asianic countries, Korea in specific, colleges only care about gpa/class rank, and standarized test scores. I've seen a kid literally memorize 600 words everyday and raised his SAT verbal score from a 400 to a 720.</p>
<p>So, I strongly disagree with what Spartan Pho3nix said...
Generallizing Asians to be smart is just incorrect.</p>
<p>i wish all the asians weren't so smart/overachievers because then i would look good =P</p>
<p>I think it's how a lot of Asians (Chinese people, at least) are raised with a massive emphasis on education. I came to the US when I was 4, and since elementary school, my parents have always told me how important a good education is and how far I could get if I went to a good college. My dad, especially, wants me to go to HYPMS because he went to Peking University (a really good Chinese college) and his whole family did too. My parents weren't as pushy as many Asian parents I've met, but they definitely stress the concept of getting into a prestigous college. </p>
<p>That said, the Asian stereotype has the following traits:
*very geeky
*high SAT/ACT/PSAT/AP scores
*extremely high GPA
*heavily oriented towards math and science
*not much interest in the humanities courses</p>
<p>Generally, though, male Asians fit this stereotype more than females. Or at least I've noticed that.</p>
<p>the math/science thing is because a lot of azn parents help/teach their kids in math and science, but many are not fluent in English.</p>
<p>Generally I find that Asians are not all work-a-holics, most of the time a couple of friends and I get to school early and finish our homework before class. Maybe its just me...</p>
<p>Asians place alot of emphasis on prestigious colleges because its kind of part of their culture and society. For example in China, your future depends largely on what university you get in. Prestige IS a big factor to employers, as opposed to employers over here, who don't care at all about prestige.</p>
<p>Anyways, how does one go about breaking free from this stereotype? By making less than perfect grades and spiking one's ECs? </p>
<p>I've seriously considered slacking the grades a bit, cutting the violin/piano, and majorly spiking my other non-stereotypical Asian ECs (Which I've already devoted lots of time to). Mainly because I don't really enjoy school/piano/violin that much (Its okay, but 8 or 9 hours a day is really enough for me), while I do enjoy many of the other ECs I have at the moment. :D</p>
<p>um, I'd blame it on Confucius.</p>
<p>generally speaking, ppl always look at Azns as the model minority. Almost all Azns excel in academics and in E. C.'s. However, it is a surprise to me why many ivy leagues and other colleges have made it harder for azns to enter, while letting more URMS to enter. On my part, i believe that is VERY unfair. URMS are given the same, if not, better chances that we azns are given. Many times, blacks and latinos just tend to slack off or be lazy when it comes to school. In my opinion, colleges shouldn't admit more URMs just because they don't have any, they should accept students due to their stats and their qualities. All these asians who have like a 1600(old SAT I) perfect GPA, and wonderful EC's are getting turned down. WHY? Because their asian and colleges need to make room for blacks and Latinos and Native Americans because their underrepresented. </p>
<p>Many people think that they are underprivileged, but they ARE NOT! Many times, Asians are poorer than all these URMs but get to be so smart and successful because of how hard they tried. If every URM and group could learn to get their lazy butts off of the sofa and study hard like asians, they wouldn't be URMS anymore would they? Colleges should not follow AA to the extent that they turn down much more qualified candidates. It just encourages more blacks, latinos, and others to slack off in school because they think "Affirmative Action" is going to save the day when the time comes. Scrapping this rule to an extent will be like a slap in the face, telling these URMs to wake up and realize that they have to work harder to get farther.</p>
<p>Academic talent, ie test, is the way to get into most colleges even in Europe, not just Asia.
Emphasis on ECs is one of the ways to keep Asians out of top colleges in USA.
It's used to be top colleges want kids to be well rounded, good academic but also good in sport, good in verbal as well as math, now even if you're good in both, the game is changed, it's to do with your passion even if your passion is panio(lol), or tennis. Anyway, become a cheerleader if you're a girl to fight the stereo type and a surfer bump if you're a guy. Do things that defy the stereotype will work eventually.
The college game keeps changing so Asians either have to change their games or change the outlook and expectations. Why is it so important to go to top colleges? Does it prove that one is smart if one does? Is it worth it?</p>
<p>Prestige IS a big factor to employers, as opposed to employers over here, who don't care at all about prestige. - people here do care about prestige. its just that is has to come with good social skills as well. </p>
<p>It is part of the Asian culture. Come on - look at it this way - for Beijing University, it is the premier humanities University in China, equivalent of Harvard. And all the communist party leaders send their kids there. So not only is it prestige; but connections - since you can meet higher-up people at the university (major nepotism in China), it is more likely you have those connections - and so it is part of what forms the 'go to a good university and succeed' stereotype because if you go to a good university, you are more likely to succeed because you have the political connections to get you money, to get you business, to secure you a position in the communist party.</p>
<p>I don't think it is a way to keep Asians out of the Ivies. I do think the URM system is bad, but it doesn't really discriminate against Asians. You do need variety. My mother (I'm Chinese, immigrated when 4 and 1/2) thinks the US system of college admissions is far superior because having good test scores and good academics does not mean you will be successful! You also have to have good social skills, people skills, and other talents. Many companies and many CEOs have always said that they'd rather take someone from University of Oklahoma if they are pleasant and easy to work with than someone who has a P.hD in engineering from Harvard who is antisocial, reclusive, and thinks they are smarter than everyone else (even if they are; look at the most successful people - many dropped out of college period. the best leaders are the ones who praise other people for their work and thereby encourage them - and are very easily likeable. then you'll really want to work for them). In fact, most construction engineering companies don't like to hire P.hD's - it is too expensive, and it is usually not worth it. By focusing on other talents - whether it is being well-rounded or well-lopsidied - the US admin process forces you to not only to excel academically but socially and in other arenas. </p>
<p>Life cannot be determined by tests! Life cannot be studied for like you can study for tests. It is much different, much less defined, and that's why colleges care about your life experience.</p>
<p>ebonytear,
[quote]
Academic talent, ie test, is the way to get into most colleges even in Europe, not just Asia.
[/quote]
refers to the fact that other country, ie non-Asia, also put emphasis on academic, not just Asian countries. I know my husband's nephew is non-Asian but can be characterized as "Asian" type as far as US colleges is concerned, was on scholarship at Eton and got into Oxford last year, playing no sport whatsoever, did may be 3 A levels on language(equivalent to 3 APs here).
I'm not advocating that testing is the way to go for colleges here, but I wonder if YoYoMa would have gotten to be YoYoMa otherwise, ie doing the stereotypical Asian things.
[quote]
You also have to have good social skills, people skills, and other talents.
[/quote]
You jump too many steps here to conclusion, whom to say only the ones that go to Ivies have good social skills, or adcoms select students to Ivy base on that basis. If this were the case, I'm sure my daughter is Ivy material(LOL). Or an introvert is not Ivy material.
We're talking Asian stereotype, here.
[quote]
Many companies and many CEOs have always said that they'd rather take someone from University of Oklahoma if they are pleasant and easy to work with than someone who has a P.hD in engineering from Harvard who is antisocial, reclusive, and thinks they are smarter than everyone else (even if they are; look at the most successful people - many dropped out of college period.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You seem to agree with me that this is why an Ivy education is unnecessary overrated?</p>
<p>haha... okay so I guess I could call myself more of a "well-rounded" asian <em>snerk</em> Actually.. I've played piano since I was five but I hate it like hell itself (absolutely no awards) so I guess there goes my stereotype... but really. I used to think there was nothing more to life than math and science and I guess I have a couple of science 800's to prove that(whatev..) but I'm really much more of a humanities person. I've gotten some writing awards and I've done a lot of economics-related things plus I'm really big on philosophy and such. So I dunno.. will colleges still see me as a stereotypical asian?</p>
<p>In the LA area, all asian parents care about is their children going off to UCLA because they think that is the only good school in this country with the exception of Harvard, Stanford and Yale....they have never heard of any other school, and if you go to any other school like say, Brown or Cornell, they'll think your stupid and you're wasting money because they have never heard of the name before.
and also, about 20 or so Asians are major hard-workers, and some still get bad grades...and the only phrase you hear from them is "...get into college" and most of them never go out to watch a movie every so often or go out and eat and party. They just stay home and say they can't go out.......</p>
<p>How stereotypical is it to be an artsy Asian? </p>
<p>...in my case, this is in addition to being nauseatingly Asian - high GPA/SAT, math team/science bowl/knowledge bowl/research internships, tennis, orchestra, piano, violin...except that I love the humanities and score higher on CR on the SAT (800! :D ).</p>
<p>lalananagirl,
[quote]
In the LA area, all asian parents..
[/quote]
That is quite a strong statement. It just mean they are not as well read, well traveled, well educated. I know a lot of Asian parents know where's Brown and Cornell, heck, they even graduated from Brown and Cornell, years ago. These schools are not new to anybody who lives in USA for sometimes, only to newcomers.</p>
<p>In my school, all tennis and golf teams are 99% asian. The top ten ranked students are all asian except for me (I'm white). Science bowl is 100% asian. The magnet in my school is visibly 50% asian. I keep overhearing asians in my classes discussing how their parents are so ****ed off because they got a C in a really hard AP US class. Only about 10 of those asians have a chance at HYPSM.</p>
<p>Also I heard from someone going to UCLA that the school is more than 50% asian (visibly). This explains why one hispanic senior with no ECs and 1010 SAT got into UCLA but a white guy with 1440 SAT, captain of 2 varsity sports and a bunch of ECs got rejected from UCLA. They need more diversity so URMs with mediocre scores get in over much more qualified students.</p>
<p>I would imagine this situation is present in most California schools. Wouldn't this make it harder for asians to get into top colleges because the top students at each school are asian?</p>
<p>I go to a predominately rich, white, prestigous, suburban private school and i am the only asian in my grade, 1 of 3 minorities in the grade. and above all that, my school is the only place where i havent found people i really connect with aka no life long friendships. you know, life's tough. but i figure that my parents never had a chance to finish high school thanks to Mao and they worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 20 years so i can go to this snobby prep school and go to college and then have it easy. I figure working hard just might be worth it. </p>
<p>most non-asian kids just don't get it. many automatically label me as a workaholic and while it isnt necessarily true, its not exactly an insult. though sometimes it feels like its meant to be. Or maybe kids think working really hard is a loserish/demeaning/uncool quality and when "made fun of" for working hard, they look for an example of somone who definitely works harder than them. For exmaple, before my bio final, one of the kids with the highest gpas in the grade said "yea he's been studying for this final for 3 weeks and hes gonna Ace it and kill our curve" and tried pass it off as truth while it was only an assumption. i guess its the price i pay for simply not denying that i study. i really only studied the night before, but who would believe me anyway, so i just subtley mocked the kid, saying "yea i've been studying for 4 months. i love stuyding." a few days later we found out that that same kid scored the highest on the final... you know what? i take pride in working hard. its an AMERICAN virtue. in whatever i do, i want to do it to the best of my ability. i am damn proud of my asian heritage and i honestly believe that working hard is gonna get me somehwere. but thats not to say you should go home after school and study 7 hours straight cuase i sure as hell don't. but i say just do all your homework and study diligently for your tests. no all-nighters. those are ridiculous and retarded. find something you love that isn't getting good grades (plus, seriously, i love working hard, just not working hard for school and grades - its a pain in the ass) </p>
<p>my passion is track and field. i love it. i'd do anytihng to get better but sometimes hard work can only take you so far and natural talent is what you need to succeed and thats not what i have. nonetheless, im still the most dedicated athlete on my team and probably the captain next year. i cant wait for track season. </p>
<p>ok i dont know what this is about anymore but i'll post anyway.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you poooks a/b the whole working hard thing. What irks most people though, is that asians work sO hard that they are basically over-respresented minorities (ORM!) in colleges and it is noticeably more difficult for them to get into good colleges. For example, a good friend of mine w/probably what you could consider the perfect application got rejected from yale but this year four kids from my school w/mediocre applications got in (it helps that two of them are URMs and none of them were asian right?)</p>
<p>So well working hard is all well and good, the bad thing about it is that it creates a mass of asians trying to vie for the same spots and colleges just can't give those to them and someone has to get "the shaft."</p>
<p><em>sigh</em></p>
<p>It's like this only when asians are a minority, in their countires of origin not all of them are hardworking...oh what the hell am i fibbing about.</p>