<p>God may not exist. But the idea of a higher power does- and that’s all that matters. God stands for something- the need for humanity to do right by itself and be somehow rewarded for it. The need for there to be a reason that a murderer is bad other than that it makes you sad. Without at least the idea of some kind of eternal judgement or retribution for our actions, society would crumble.
Gah, I’m so ineloquent today! What I’m trying to say is that while there may be no God, I [and most of the people on the planet] need to at least have the hope that there is a plan or a reason and that our existence isn’t meaningless. We as humans find comfort in the idea that we’re not alone in all of this. To that end, even if I didn’t believe in a higher power, I think I wouldn’t say as much- so many people need it to function.</p>
<p>That said, I believe in the possibility of a higher power like I believe in the possibility of aliens- just because we’ve never met them and could “prove” that they don’t exist, we don’t know what form they are in or what kind of technology they have. We don’t know what or how or why God is, or if god is. There is no way to definitively prove that there is no god, because we don’t know for sure what god could be. We know god isn’t a man in the sky. But maybe god is a consciousness. Or in a different dimension. God didn’t create the world in 6 days, but maybe a higher power set the big bang and evolution in motion and had[has] it all planned out. </p>
See, there you go, using immature name-calling to express your disagreement with people. (Though I will admit that “atheists without balls” is no better.) You could refute ideas for what they are, not for the people who believe them.</p>
blasphemy of the holy spirit, the only unforgivable sin.</p>
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faith. faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. whether or not you feel comfort from what you believe is completely beside the point of the validity of god’s existence. however, god does not ask for blind faith. if you’re gonna believe…believe all of it. if you’re unsure…investigate. look into it and believe what you want and pray/chant that you’re right when your time comes- freedom is great huh?</p>
<p>if you’ve searched your soul and found what you believe to be truth about divinity, instead of being presented with the promise of ‘salvation’ and saying ‘great, where do i sign up?’, then you’re not acting upon blind faith. you’ve done rationalising, grappling, searching. that doesn’t represent cowardice.</p>
<p>I still think, however, that casting your sins upon Jesus, instead of being accountable for them, is still copping out of your burden as a human being.</p>
<p>and halogen, trust me, those remarks were made in a way that doesn’t merit serious refutation.</p>
It is, and I’m thankful for it. That’s who God is to me – the one who’s son, in my stead, is accountable for my sin. Cowardice? We’re all cowards and, by our own power, can be nothing better. We might as well admit it. Only human pride makes this admission difficult.</p>
<p>What you call “copping out,” I call “humility.”
Fair enough, but don’t refute serious ideas the same way you’d respond to remarks that don’t merit refutation.</p>
<p>Ah, I have some trouble believing that. Why does a higher power have to exist? One cannot prove that there is a higher power.</p>
<p>See, I have trouble believing in any religion. Yes, there may be a higher power - something out there which we can’t explain. Fine - but how does anyone know that Jesus/Allah/whatever is the higher power? </p>
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<p>If humanity is doing right because of the fear of a higher power, than it’s not doing right by itself, is it? Murder is a crime because of morals. And morals are formed by the beliefs of a society. The idea of right and wrong is not universal - i.e. murder is not an universal wrong. Yes, most civilizations consider murder as a crime - that doesn’t make it universally wrong.</p>
<p>^malicious and unjustified taking of another life is pretty much universally considered wrong, across all human societies.</p>
<p>‘unjustified’ varies from society to society, but murder is a universal concept.</p>
<p>Corporeal punishment (not corporal, but punishment which takes place here on Earth) is perfectly sufficient to keep society from “crumbling.” you don’t need fear of damnation to convince you not to commit a wrong. many people do, however, need fear of prison, fines, or death.</p>
<p>the fear of damnation should be sufficient enough to prevent the need for corporeal punishment (but by turning on the news, we can see that it’s not). prison, fines, and death (earthly fears) cripple to eternal damnation.</p>
<p>And the Muslim faith allows honor killing. Europe encouraged dueling as a way to resolve conflicts hundreds of years ago. Almost every country practices capital punishment. All of those are murder, so it’s not an universally wrong concept.</p>
<p>according to those societies, those are instances of justified homicide, not murder. but those societies still have/had a conception of murder. like I said, the concept of ‘justified’ varies from society to society, but the concept of murder is found universally (which is in this instance, and indeed in most instances, taken to mean all relevant examples).</p>
<p>futurexecutive: that may or may not be so, but that was not my point. a previous poster said that society would crumble without a concept of eternal punishment. corporeal punishment does the trick.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that the fear of a higher power is necessary- I’m saying that, more for victims of “sin” or “lawlessness” or “evil” or whatever you want to call it [bad stuff], the idea that bad people will somehow receive judgement or punishment in the end [whether or not it happens on earth] is what gets many people through the day. The idea that being a productive member of society and doing right by the world will somehow make your life worthwhile in the end- that is the power of religion, or deism, or what have you. Obviously the fear of a higher power does not keep many people in line- whether that higher power is God or the law. You misunderstand me if that’s what you think I’m saying. What I’m saying is that the idea of a higher power gets many people through the day. And dissing it [for lack of a better word] is doing no more than being inflammatory. I’ll agree that certain human misinterpretations of religion are quite evil- genocide, intolerance, etc. But I think you can agree that the teachings of most, if not all religions are good, and have led many people to do great things. I know so many good people that are religious and get their strength from their faith in God. What a broken society we would be without religion!
Think about it- think of all the art and music and literature that has come of religion. Even if you don’t believe in the existence of God, or a higher power, surely you must appreciate the value of it? Think of all the great works of highly religious people- gandhi, mother theresa, martin luther king, jr. Think of all the knowledge that has been cultivated by the religious [though some has been destroyed by equally religous, though misguided people].
As for proof of the existence of a higher power: no one can prove that there is a higher power, and to claim so is folly, or ignorance, or something. But, in the same way, no one can prove that there is no higher power. No one knows for sure whether Allah or any other god exists, or whether Jesus is a higher power [though as an agnostic raised Methodist I can tell you that many Christians do not believe that Jesus was divine, but that he was merely a very enlightened individual]. What anyone, religious or agnostic or otherwise wants is a sense of safety and comfort- to believe that somehow, we are not alone, and that everything happens for a reason.</p>
it does the trick or it should? how about all of the criminals sitting in prison right now? did it work? and do you think they fear more the length of their sentence over damnation? imo, they’d have to be mentally unstable not to fear the latter. believer or non-believer…a crime is never in your favor.</p>
<p>“Everything is determined by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust – we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”</p>
<p>“I assert that the cosmic religious experience is the strongest and the noblest driving force behind scientific research.”</p>
<p>“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”</p>
<p>“Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”</p>
<p>God fulfills the needs we have that would otherwise go unsatisfied. He may or may not be beneficial, given a certain perspective of what constitutes benefit and a certain situation, but he is not real beyond our imaginations.</p>
<p>@Izzy - you’ve misconstrued Einstein’s views. Quote - “To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man.” Definitely not what a Jew/Christian etc. would say.</p>
<p>Einstein did not believe in a personal God, and he quite definitively stated so: “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”</p>