<p>I don't put down my race on forms (though my name really says it all), but I'm just curious about something.
I'm white, Jewish, and thus obviously far from being an URM. My maternal grandmother, however, is Argentinian (born there, raised there, moved to the States when she got married). My great-grandparents were also born there, but their parents were from Europe, and my grandmother is not mixed-race.
Does that mean that I am 1/4 Hispanic? My mom and uncles, who under that logic would be 1/2 Hispanic, put down "undetermined" because they weren't sure, but could they be called Hispanic? In reference to the other thread, while they grew up with multilingual parents, they did not grow up in a Hispanic atmosphere. They know their Argentinian relatives and my great-aunt actually vanished during the rule of the junta, but they grew up identifying as Jewish and not Hispanic (though those aren't mutally exclusive- they just grew up in New York).
You can tell me I'm a deceptive pretender and I won't care- the answer will impact absolutely nothing in my life. I've just been curious about it for a while.
Thanks, amigos! :)</p>
<p>hispanic is not a race or ethnicity! it is language grouping that has been made into a unique grouping for political purposes and is now part of the american identity.</p>
<p>I assume your grandparents could not get into the U.S. directly and arrived in south america then came here as soon as they could.
I would check off the box if you feel comfortable doing so, however if you go for an interview the interviewer may see you trying to get in the VIP line that they really do not want you in and hold it against you! it is a tough call. maybe try to get in on your on merits and sleep better knowing you did not try and game the system even if the game is actually very silly to begin with.</p>
<p>This is a variation on the “If my [white] parents were born in Kenya, doesn’t that make me African-American?” question. Answer: Yes, technically, but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously when you say it.</p>
<p>No- my grandmother is a second generation Argentinian who probably would have stayed there if my grandfather hadn’t come there to visit relatives and then married her and brought her to the US.
And I wouldn’t dream of calling myself African-American in your case, johnwesley, but I was under the impression that Hispanic guidelines were somewhat different and possibly looser (Spain being allowed, etc).
This is all besides the fact that I am against affirmative action, I mentioned that I don’t state my race, and I also specifically stated that this is entirely out of curiosity.
I appreciate your taking the time to answer my question, but reading my post more in-depth would have helped you understand the circumstances.
Gracias, guys!</p>
<p>Here is my opinion, for whatever it is worth:</p>
<p>I have served on a scholarship committee for a scholarship designated for URMs. In our guidelines, we specifically ruled out: Spain, Portugal, anything European. We also ruled out South Americans of recent (just a few generations) European background. South Americans whose families had been there for hundreds of years and/or with mixed ancestry with indigenous populations of South America were fine.</p>
<p>Why did we set our guidelines that way? Generally, there are 2 rationales for URM preferences: (1) to make up for past discrimination; (2) to increase campus diversity which arguably enhances education.</p>
<p>This, of course, may have absolutely no bearing on what college admissions officers think with respect to their own policies. This was our policy for this particular scholarship. Except, I think I am pretty confident in saying that Spain and Portugal are almost always excluded… </p>
<p>It is up to your own conscience to determine whether these policies should benefit you. But ask yourself? Do you identify in any way with Hispanic culture? Has your family in the recent past been subject to discriminatory policies? If the answer to both of those questions is no, and if you don’t have any real or significant connection to American Latino culture, then I think that weighs against. On the other hand, if your family really and sincerely embraces its Hispanic heritage, then maybe that’s ok.</p>
<p>But as I said, this is just my opinion.</p>
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<p>I find your criteria confusing. A white, first-generation American student with both parents born in Portugal, who speaks fluent Portuguese and identifies with (European) Portuguese culture would probably add far more diversity to the campus community than a 10th generation “Hispanic” applicant from Texas who happens to have brown skin and Amerindian-like eye shape. Why would the former be ruled out then whereas the latter is immediately considered for URM preference ?</p>
<p>“Hispanic” is a problematic category in many ways. Many Spanish-surnamed American just think of themselves as Americans; others as Mexican-Americans or Cuban-Americans or Puerto Ricans (who are Americans just by virtue of being Puerto Ricans) or whatever; they don’t think of themselves necessarily as "Hispanics or “Hispanic Americans,” so “Hispanic” is not an ethnic or cultural identifier, and it’s certainly not a racial identifier because people from Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America come in all shades from European white to indigenous brown to mixed-race brown to Afro-Latin black; there are even some communities of predominantly Asian descent in places like Peru. It’s not even necessarily a linguistic identifier; there are large areas of Ecuador where most people’s primary language is Quechua, and of course many American “Hispanics” speak Spanish poorly, or almost not at all. </p>
<p>Then what do you with the nearly 200 million Brazilians, who make up fully half the population of South America? Are they Hispanic? For the most part, they don’t think so, because 'Hispanic" implies some connection with Spain, historically the arch-rival of “their” colonial master, Portugal. Most Brazilians don’t speak Spanish (though they can often understand it because the languages are similar enough, and Spanish grammar is for the most part simpler than Portuguese). But even while not identifying as Hispanic, they are mystified why anyone would give preferential treatment to a Paraguayan or an Argentinian as opposed to a Brazilian. Or are they supposed to hold their nose and check the box that says “Hispanic” on grounds of similar-enough colonial history, and just accept that the person asking the question doesn’t know what they’re talking about?</p>
<p>What about the Caribbean? So we give preferential treatment to people from Spanish-speaking island nations (Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic) but not French/Creole-speaking nations (Haiti) or English-speaking nations (Jamaica, Bahamas, Trinidad and Tobago) or Dutch-speaking nations (Curacao)? Why, exactly?</p>
<p>Not saying I’m against affirmative action, but the categories baffle me sometimes.</p>
<p>First generation students are also often given special consideration. Life is not perfect. Deal.</p>
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<p>Race is no less a political construct than someone’s nationality. Are you Sephardic? Why is that any easier to answer than whether you are Hispanic?</p>
<p>Bruno… that may very well be true… international students definitely add diversity.
But that is different than URM status. </p>
<p>You are correct that it is all a bit confusing and complex… but that is because race relations in US history have been confusing and complex.</p>
<p>Certainly a Portuguese international student will add diversity to a campus. But European Spanish and European Portuguese are NOT considered “Hispanic” for the purposes of URM status.</p>
<p>When filling out the personal info section of the Common App, I was forced to identify which “subgroup” of Puerto Rican I belonged to, ex. European descent, African descent, etc. I was taken aback by the question. Does being primarily of European descent somehow take away from my identity as a Puerto Rican? Most of my family might have settled here only three or four generations ago, but the culture I was raised in is 100% Puerto Rican (well, as traditional as it could be with the Americanization that has affected the whole island). I understand that the question was more for purposes of keeping track of demographics but, as silly as this sounds and I feel now, I felt a tad offended at the moment. Also, props to Bclintock bringing up some excellent points.</p>
<p>@OP: I (wish I could bold and italicize this) would not put down Hispanic, seeing as that is not a “culture” you were raised in, meaning that you were not raised in the culture of peoples typically labaled as Hispanics. Yes, I’m aware of the can of worms I’m probably going to open with that opinion, given how hard it can be to quantify such a thing in places like the US…</p>
<p>johnwesley: No, I’m not Sephardic, but I only mentioned that Hispanic seemed looser because, as all the posters have described, these are murky waters, and I know I have been told things on all ends of the spectrum by people in the know.
I personally wouldn’t do it, as I mentioned, but it’s still something I’m interested in.
To expand the question, take one of my elementary school classmates: moved from Argentina at age thirteen, speaks fluent Spanish, totally white. I have no idea when her family got to Argentina, but she obviously absorbed a decent bit of culture. Her family is also quite wealthy. Is she an URM?
You can see, possibly, why I am more than skeptical about affirmative action.</p>
<p>No…Not for most schools.</p>
<p>Do you celebrate argentine culture (food, holidays, etc?)? Speak Spanish? Identify yourself as argentine? I think if you said yes to at least two you could mark Hispanic, but it sounds like you aren’t culturally Hispanic or argentine. Btw, many Hispanics are Jewish. I’m Cuban and William levy is a well known Hispanic in the USA, he’s Jewish. Hispanic doesn’t mean brown Mexican (mestizo). There are whites/blacks/Asians/Jews in Cuba and all of Latin America. It’s not a race…</p>
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<p>Ugh. Sucked into another AA thread. When will I learn!</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that the main criteria for Hispanic is whether or not you identify as Hispanic. If you do, then put it down and let the admissions people do as they will. I’m sure they see this a lot. I am equally sure that in the case of a white, high income, non-disadvantaged hispanic it probably will not do much advantage to your application. I don’t think they will hold it against you though since you meet the definition for Hispanic in the National Hispanic Recognition Program.</p>
<p>Sorry, johnwesley. I really did start this out of curiosity, and I still am curious, but as I was thinking about this my head just started to spin and I was just like, enough already!
Feel free to pretend that you never responded.
This was really just a dinner table discussion that erupted.
My conclusion is that while I can check the box in theory and it would be totally legit, it wouldn’t take me anywhere.</p>
<p>This is a really interesting question. </p>
<p>I live in a community where a lot of families have children who were adopted. As many approach college applications, if a child is adopted from a “hispanic” culture (South America, Mexico, Puerto Rico) but is raised in a white, middle-class family, what do they put on their application? Their family’s “culture” is white, suburban, middle-class, but they face potential racial stereotypes due to their appearance. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>hannahbanana69 wrote:
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<p>You don’t take “Yes” for an answer, do you? ;)</p>
<p>johnwesley wrote:
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