<p>Is the LSAT more important then where you went as an undergrad? Could it make up for going to a non prestigious undergrad school? Reasing being i will most likely be attending southern illinois university which is a 3rd tier school. Hypothetically if i were to maintain a strong gpa(3.7-4.0) , take a challenging undergrad coursload(i am looking to get dual degrees(a B.S. in engineering and a B.A. with majors in poli sci and finance and a minor in music)(During high school i attended a community college and earned enough credits there and through AP to have knocked off two years worth of credits, though not enough to qualify as a transfer student to other universities and i have a very dismall high school record(exten circumstances)(want to use the extra time to get more degrees), and get a near perfect LSAT score could i get into a top law school(harvard,yale,uchicago,etc.)?</p>
<p>Every year, those schools will take a handful of students from third-tier undergrads. Now, if you want, read through these boards for the rousing debate: does Harvard take more kids from it's undergrad because, on the whole, those kids are so talented, or is there an advantage conferred by going to a good school?</p>
<p>I'm not going to answer that here - although y'all are more than welcome to try. :)</p>
<p>What I can say is this: going to an okay undergrad does not preclude you from the top law schools. Most people, however, don't even have a shot at those schools. In the past few years, 150,000 people have taken the LSAT. Only about 1,000 of those will end up matriculating at the schools you are mentioning. Don't forget that it's usually only good students who end up taking the LSAT - very different from the SAT. I'm not trying to discourage you so much as give you a little perspective.</p>
<p>The advice I can give you is this: obviously, do your best. If you come out with mediocre grades, I think (and a lot of people will disagree) that you will not get any slack - whereas someone like PSedrish's D had a 3.2 from Harvard and got a ton of acceptances (she also had a 180 LSAT, which helps!). Beyond that, get to know your professors. Don't just get As - do research for them, get to know them, and try to do grad-level work if you can. Really consider taking time off between undergrad and law (which I tell everyone), as building a resume will strengthen your application. If possible, take a summer course at a really good school (Chicago or Northwestern if they are near you). That grade will be factored into the overall GPA - but if you manage to do well there, you can demonstrate that you are a strong student. Consider getting a masters, as that will demonstrate that you are capable of handling post-undergrad work loads. </p>
<p>Law matters way more than undergrad. Whatever you do, don't come out of undergrad with so much debt from a prestigous school that you have to go to a lesser-ranked law school for the merit money.</p>
<p>I hope you did well in those community college classes during high school, because all of those grades will be factored into the GPA that law schools consider.</p>
<p>Actually I am currently a junior in high school. I am taking classes at a community college mainly to raise my high school gpa. However after doing the math I will still only have a 2.3 when it comes time to apply to colleges, a 2.8 after the first semester of my senior year. If i were to apply at the end of my senior year, however, i would have a 3.4. Since most colleges require my transcript BEFORE my 1st semester is over I am highly doubtfull of being able to get into a 1st tier school. SIU is my safety(if you have a 23 or above your automatically admitted) it is highly probable that i will go there. Therefore I am asking if i would still have a shot at a good law school, even though i went to a mediocre undergrad school. As for the classes I have taken in the community college so far i have had all A's. As a side benefit by the time i graduate high school I will have eliminated all of my gen eds at southern illinois university. Thus giving me the ability to dual major/degree, graduate early, etc. </p>
<p>So just as long as a ace my classes, the lsat, and get some professors to recommend me I may have a shot? What i meant by top law schools i also would include northwestern, nyu, university of illinois champaign, umich,etc. I didn't just mean ivies.</p>
<p>Ariesathena,
I hope what you said about going to a less prestigeous undergrad to save money for law school is correct, because that's the decision we made! My son chose a no-debt undergrad program thinking that it will allow him to attend the best law school he can get into regardless of tuition. We also thought that most accredited engineering undergrad programs from research institutions seemed pretty much alike, so the difference may be minimal anyway. Having an engineering background, would you recommend foreign language and philosophy courses also? (my son also has interest in these areas). Thanks!</p>
<p>The LSAT is the single biggest factor (70% to 80%) in law school admissions. Ace that and everything else will be less important in comparison.</p>
<p>Lkf: Generally, grad school is more important than undergrad. That's about a million times more true for law school. As for engineering: if it's ABET accredited and it's a decent programme (as in, something besides 10th tier), he'll be fine. Mostly, with engineering, if you can do the work, you are good. There's not much variation between the programmes, and starting salaries tend to be very compressed. Compare law school, where the money you earn will be directly proportional to the quality of the school. </p>
<p>I took a second major in a liberal arts discipline, so I would completely recommend foreign language courses (took five of them) and philosophy. The latter will keep paper-writing skills from getting rusty. He'll have a big advantage if he does technical writing (take it if it's offered as an elective!), because that is closer to legal writing than anything that liberal arts offers. However, there isn't much opportunity for writing, so he should take courses to keep the skills sharp. Foreign language is good - I took Greek - because it's analytical and the grammar is good for law school. A lot of statutory construction hinges on the grammar and syntax of a statute, so foreign language (esp. Latin or Greek) is great for law school. </p>
<p>I do think that the engin. background is great for law school (just not for actually getting in the door). After spending four years taking tests under a huge time crunch, where the professors would fully expect that only one or two students would finish, and that some problems would be so difficult that you couldn't do them, law school exams are not bad. Seriously, they are not bad in comparision. They are longer, but there's less of a time crunch. Engin. exams are often open book or notes or something, and you understand the importance of really knowing the information before you go in - it just takes a while to get that. A lot of law school exams are also open notes or book, and it's good to have the experience taking such exams under a time crunch. Finally - foreign language courses (at least at my alma mater) will often, in the upper levels, only have one exam, which is the final. That's how l.s. works - and it was so nice to at least be familiar with that format. A lot of people flip out, because there is one exam which determines the entire grade - no papers, no mid-terms, no take-homes. If possible, your son should take a course in undergrad just for that experience. It's very unnverving the first time - and better to be so unnerved during undergrad than in law school, when grades count.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input Ariesathena! My son is one of those left brain / right brain people, and he performs about equally well on math and verbal assessments. Maybe this could be his niche? I know it's a distant goal (which may take a detour!) but it can't hurt to plan a little if there is some general direction.</p>
<p>I appreciate that you don't think he is nuts for liking both math/science/eng and writing/languages/philosopy. Seems quite opposite, unless you know him. To make things even more complicated, he also spends alot of time on his musical studies. I especially appreciate your insightful comments on humanities course selection and test types. Thanks again!</p>