<p>Families making $60K or less are not required to pay anything for tuition or room and board. Harvard’s generous financial aid makes it one of the most affordable universities in the country. </p>
<p>Proactive- Harvard only gives need-based financial aid, not merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Windcloud- I fully agree that Princeton eating clubs offer a more equitable social scene, with co-ed clubs and the choice of bicker or sign-in entrance methods.</p>
<p>Globaldolphin- there is a student happiness survey floating about the web in which Harvard ranks rather low compared to Princeton (and of course many state-U’s).</p>
<p>I don’t really mind Harvard. I think it is overrated, but it does have an incredibly large endowment and awesome professors.</p>
<p>Things not so great about Harvard (pardon me because I’m about to make a bunch of unfair generalizations):</p>
<ol>
<li>Weather… 'nuff said</li>
<li>Too many “try hards” who want to become doctors and lawyers.</li>
<li>Too many preppy people who think they can save the world but deeper down aren’t nice people</li>
<li>An atmosphere of veiled arrogance and feigned modesty</li>
<li>Most students don’t seem to love their school (as Yalies love their school)</li>
</ol>
<p>1) No argument there. But that’s hardly unique to Harvard. One can make the same argument about basically every school north of a certain latitude in the US.
2) Eh. There are lots of students who want to attend law school and medical school at other schools. Including most of the good schools. I’m not sure how this is unique to Harvard.
3) I’m a bit confused about this particular accusation. Is this specifically about the ‘preppy types’ at Harvard? Because I can tell you, while there were certainly students who fit the ‘prep school’ bill, they’re hardly a majority. And I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that most of them are not such nice people. (I’m not arguing one way or the other–not so nice people probably exist at any institution, esp one as large as Harvard).
4) I think this is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Like it or not, Harvard is one of, if not the most recognizable higher education brand names in the world. We can’t all go around being braggarts (because it would actually be really, really silly considering the number of smart and talented people who have no connection to Harvard, or for that matter, a recognizable institutional name). Yet, when Harvard grads DON’T go around doing that we’re accused of ‘veiled arrogance and feigned modesty?’
5) I think Harvard might not be as rah-rah when it comes to school spirit, but it’s hardly ‘most students’ as you suggest. I don’t have the latest figures in front of me, but I think Harvard’s alum giving rate (not the best measure, but best proxy I can think of off the top of my head) is probably only 2-3 percentage points lower than Yale’s. That’s hardly that big of a contrast?</p>
<p>5) And there’s been a spontaneous explosion of House spirit–the socially acceptable, non-arrogant form of Harvard pride–lately. So it’s there, it just doesn’t have as many outlets as, say, Yale. Since Yale’s outlet is Harvard.</p>
<p>Harvard is not insular – for better or worse. Unlike other universities and colleges there is a feeling that one will be an actor on the world stage–in one’s academic field, profession, politics, art or in some other way. Harvard seeks out such students. This is NOT a knock in any way-- I love Harvard College students – teaching them, advising them and, when i was younger, living amongst them–and now parenting one. But the idea that is memorialized in “Bright College Days” of “happy golden bygone years” which are the best years of one’s life isn’t part of the ethos at Harvard. Don’t get me wrong, Harvard students, I have found, are happy and proud to be at Harvard (and ***** and moan as much as any students anywhere too).<br>
exultationsy is right, Harvard students spend little to no time thinking about other colleges-- it is a Hertz not an Avis mentality-- that can be maddening and arrogant but as Robert Benchley, the 20th Century wit, put it: “You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can’t tell him much.” Make that comment gender neutral and it still applies.</p>
<p>I just visit here occasionally, so I don’t know who goes where, or who is a parent, a student, or a voyeur, but WhaleWhale, do you (or did you) go to Harvard, or are you just making gross overgeneralizations for the hell of it? I didn’t want my son to go to Harvard because of all the stereotypes that abound, but we found, after he was there for a semester or so, that the students seem to get over themselves pretty quickly. Everyone else is just as smart and/or accomplished! You can find jerks everywhere, but the students that we met over the years (and we met lots of them because we live 3 miles from campus) were warm, caring individuals who were serious about their work and extremely creative about their play (no wonder Kirkland House ranked first this year!). When you live near Harvard, it is really normal to develop an antipathy towards the school just because it’s, oh, just because it’s Harvard. Now I can see the amazing things that it has to offer its students, and I no longer have those negative feelings. Perhaps I feel this way because my son was not pre-med, pre-law, pre-Enron but in the sciences, so a lot of his friends weren’t arrogant about what their futures would be like (as in, “I’m an unemployed research scientist. Nice to meet you”). Anyway, just come across the river, where BU hockey players are being arrested for sexual assault and frat houses are being closed because of sadistic, dangerous hazing. Now that’s a fun place to be. I ought to know because I teach there!</p>
<p>My S is a freshman this year and I just want to add my voice. We come from a family without many financial resources and no one in our family has ever attended or ever dreamed of or prepped for attending an ivy league school. I know that no one school is right for everyone but my S has had a wonderful year. We live in MA so I have met most of his friends and each one of them is down to earth, kind and all of them have told me how much they love being at Harvard. I heard so much about “snobs” and the arrogance of H students. I am sure some of them exsist, but in nearly a year my S has not met them. Each time I am at H I recognize what a blessing this is my S’s life. Is it a perfect school - of course not, no human institution is, but the people we have met are so amazing and wonderful and the Freshman Dean is a truly caring person who is highly invested in the success and happiness of the students. I, for one, can’t believe how lucky my S is.</p>
<p>while many people at harvard may be kind, i know a few who aren’t so nice. you all know the type: super competitive, not willing to help others, braggarts, show-offs in class, etc. someone’s going to respond to this post negatively, but i know quite a few people who fit the characteristics above. </p>
<p>don’t get me wrong, i would love to attend harvard. maybe. mostly because i worship paul farmer and jim yong kim, but i think i might become bitter or super humble (because i feel inferior) in the face of obnoxiously arrogant classmates. i’m sure these kids are everywhere, but i know the most of these kids from harvard. idk.</p>
<p>I remember when D was deciding whether or not to attend Harvard, the “reputation” of super-competitive, obnoxiously arrogant classmates was a real concern. Now that she’s been there for 2 years, these kids have not materialized.
I’d echo revbon50 statement that the kids I have met when visiting D have, without exception, been kind and very pleasant.</p>
<p>Haven’t materialized for me actually going here, either. I can only think of one person I know who fits that description–she’s my roommate’s best friend, but she’s really awful–and she goes to a “lower Ivy.” (No, I don’t want to compete with you about how you’re on the Dean’s List–we don’t have one! not really–and also we are sophomores shut up about your SAT score. Although PS mine was higher.)</p>
<p>Having just come back from visitas, I can absolutely reject the idea that most Harvard students are arrogant and hypercompetitive. However, are they obnoxious? Oh god yes. At the least the students I talked to and interacted with. It was a deal-closer for me but other people may not even notice it or consider the student body to be obnoxious. Needless to say, Harvard students are very nice and helpful, just a tad bit quirky in respect to personality IMO. </p>
<p>Could you elabortate? I’m not judging here, I’m just curious about your experience. It sounds as if though the stereotype was true in your case?</p>
<p>Harvard finally has a good men’s basketball team, but the gym is about the size of a high school gym (although in its defense, it is more dank and dark than most high school gyms). If you’re lucky enough to get a seat, you’ll feel like you’re in the gym from the Hickory Huskers of the movie Hoosiers.</p>
<p>… I thought this thread, which was intended to be ridiculous, had become much too serious.</p>
<p>Besides, many students choose a school because of the caliber of its football or basketball team (at least those student with their priorities right do).</p>
<p>hahahahhahahha cockroach stock cars that’s hilarious. also, if gadad could tell me his physical attributes and genetic sequence so I can marry someone just like him that would be great. I mean, both children go to Harvard? Seriously??</p>
<p>My Sophomore D doesn’t like how many extracurricular activities are as competitive as the academics . There are some clubs that take everyone, but none of those was to her liking. Just came back from a visit,and she is very happy in her new House.</p>
<p>I now go to a school that doesn’t like Harvard, so I’ve probably been polluted, but for some reason I never really clicked with Harvard, and wasn’t even excited when I was admitted. I always liked Yale - maybe that’s why. I do, however, spend a ton of time there, so I thought I might know enough to give some legitimate reasons.</p>
<p>A city campus - Harvard is sort of ridiculously spread out in my opinion, which leads to interaction with the city that is not entirely necessary on other city campuses. If you want rolling hills and green squares, this is not the place. I’ve also always found Harvard Yard, the most closed-in area, to be a bit depressing, especially considering New England weather. It gets very little sunshine, and the grass areas are often damp.</p>
<p>Extracurriculars - As a student of a different school, I’m not very involved in this part of Harvard, but, as fauxmaven said, they do seem quite competitive. According to my friends there, ECs are also often as much a source of stress as academics. </p>
<p>Competitiveness - I’m sure this is a trait of many schools, and I know it to vary from community to community within Harvard, but the school’s a more competitive place than many others of its caliber. This, along with its lower school spirit, can make the environment intense, sometimes to the point of being cutthroat.</p>
<p>Ha, after being in her 2nd Cambridge winter now, D complains about how WET it is in winter. She was enthusiastically looking forward to snowy winters (coming from NC) but Boston’s proximity to the ocean means that a lot of winter weather is cold rain. She’s now got the rain boots and the cold/wet weather gear, so she’s doing fine with it!</p>
<p>Here’s something I don’t understand - why would students who worked hard enough to get into Harvard start to drink/party/ do related stuff? I thought that the situation there would be highly academic.</p>