<p>What is graduate school for engineering? Is it like you get a PHD and you can become a professor?</p>
<p>I'm confused with the whole undergrad vs. grad situation for engineering.</p>
<p>Furthermore is it worth it to go another 4 years for grad (will pay increase significantly?)</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Becoming a professor is one thing you can do after a PhD, but not the only thing. Grad school for engineering is the same for any other field of study. You can get an MS (~2 years) or PhD (~5 years past your BS). Which one you pursue depends on your career goals.</p>
<p>Generally, getting an MS is going to open a few extra doors for you and is going to let you start off with roughly $10k extra per year in salary. That isn’t too much different than just getting several years experience in the field with your BS.</p>
<p>A PhD is going to open up more doors for you, but it is going to close nearly every door that was open for you when you just had a BS and many of those for an MS. You generally only do a PhD if you want to pursue research and/or teaching as a career, be it in academia, industry or the government. You don’t do it for the money either. I can’t really tell you what it’s average financial benefit is because it varies pretty wildly.</p>
<p>Not sure about undergrad, but I’m pretty sure grad is just ∇f…</p>
<p>In regards to boneh3ad’s reply, I disagree that research and teaching are the only things that you can get with a PhD. While a PhD is many scientific and non-scientific fields will limit one to academia, this is especially untrue for engineering. There are plenty of employers who will hire people of all degree levels, but with a doctorate one can typically start higher on both the ranking and pay scales.</p>
<p>With that said, there are jobs that you become significantly overqualified for, such as secondary school teaching.</p>
<p>It’s worth going in to grad school if you like the material, and are willing to study more theoretical material than one did in undergraduate program. One thing that attracts people to graduate school is that it’s typically free or payable by your schoolwork.</p>
<p>Meanwhile also keep in mind that very few people who get a doctorate in engineering will become professors, and only a fraction of professors end up as full-time, tenured profs.</p>
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<p>It’s more than just secondary school education that’s shut out with a PhD. Process engineering positions (which are the majority of entry level positions for ChemE/ME/IE) will not interview a PhD. The reasoning is that the person is overqualified and underpaid in that position, so the person will either get board and leave or will receive a better offer and leave. The same goes for many, many entry level engineering positions. Employers want someone that will stick around for 5-10 years. A PhD making $60,000/year will only stick around until a better offer presents itself. </p>
<p>A PhD isn’t a really advanced BS - it’s a totally different degree. By pursuing a PhD, you’ve qualified yourself to do research and you’ve identified yourself as being interested in research. You wouldn’t hire a Civil Engineer to do Mechanical Engineering research, so why would you hire a Research Engineer (someone with a PhD) to do Process Engineering? Ask a PhD to size some pumps and he’ll roll his eyes while trying to keep awake. Not only is it boring, it’s something he probably hasn’t done for 5 years (since before his PhD). </p>
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<p>Do you have a PhD? Because that’s what the vast majority of jobs entail. Most engineering PhD’s don’t go into academia - most go into industrial research or national laboratories. But their job descriptions are more-than-likely research based. Every once and a while you come across the oddball, but those are the exception and not the rule.</p>
<p>PHDs do management as well. Having a PHD especially in physical sciences and engineering shows you are a superior human with high IQ. The manager at the pharmaceutical plant I worked at has a PHD in physical chemistry, completely unrelated to pharmaceuticals at all. Due to it being a small company, he manages formulations RD, QC as well as until recently, process engineering.</p>
<p>Having a PHD in physical sciences and engineering means some certain things. Most likely, it means you have strong fundamentals in math, physics, chemistry and programming, deep theoretical knowledge in 1 certain area, as well as the ability to get difficult projects done on a tight schedule.</p>
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<p>You do see PhD’s in management, but they travel through R&D to get there. They are hired into R&D, then work their way up to R&D management, then work up to senior management. Engineers do the same thing working through Engineering Management.</p>
<p>That’s beside the point, though. If your goal is management, you’ll get there much faster and easier by pursuing an MBA than a PhD.</p>
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<p>Trust me, it doesn’t.</p>
<p>StartMenu I think you need to stick to what you know, not whatever little conjecture you cook up. BanjoHitter already addressed my biggest concerns with your post.</p>
<p>While I generally agree with Banjos comments, I will add that we have several PhD’s in our design engineering departments. While they carry a heavier research load than the rest of us, it is still only a fraction of what they do - much of the rest of the time they are like the rest of us, with an emphasis on mentoring and advising less-educated engineers. Many of them wind up in supervisor roles very quickly.</p>
<p>What about people who get MS in fields unrelated to their BS, do employers look at the MS and disregard the BS?</p>
<p>I believe I read a post on CC by sakky where he claims he knew someone with an English BS, but then went on to get an MS in engineering at MIT. An MS degree usually takes 1-2 years, while a BS takes 4. Wouldnt a BS in engineering be more suited for engineering jobs than the guy with the MS in engineering/BS in english?</p>
<p>Forensic engineering companies DO hire PhDs (firms such as Simpson Gumpertz & Heger or Nelson Architectural Engineers). They make a pretty good starting salary, too. These firms are growing quickly, since so many buildings are aging and need rehabilitation. I’m not sure if I would enjoy that kind of work, though.</p>
<p>I know several people that went BA -> MS in engineering (civil engineering to be exact). I also know someone who went BA English -> PhD Neuroscience and more than a few that went BS Chemistry -> MS Chemical Engineering.</p>
<p>In all cases, the students had to take leveling coursework (either a semester or a year) before moving on to the traditional MS coursework. In the civil engineering cases, all were employed by transportation companies before going back to school.</p>
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<p>A BS is a general degree in an engineering discipline. An MS is a specialization in a particular area. So if you need someone who specializes in the design of vacuum jets and you can find someone with an MS who focuses on vacuum jets, then you hire that person.</p>
<p>Someone with a BS ME and an MS ME will be both a generalist (from the BS) and a specialist (from the MS). Someone with a BA English / MS Engineering will be a specialist but probably not much of a generalist. But if you just a specialist, it doesn’t matter which you hire.</p>
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<p>Forensic engineering really is research, though. Before the forensic engineering companies started to grow (and even now), lawyers went to universities and hired faculty to do the forensics.</p>
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Depends on the job. A BS is meant to provide a basic level of training for a wide spectrum of engineering jobs, while a masters is meant to provide an advanced level of training for a narrow swath of jobs. So that BA/MS person is going to be well trained and competitive for a particular job, but may have problems if that industry is not hiring right now. Meanwhile, the BS holder may have to compete with MS holders, but at least they can work in a wide range of positions.</p>
<p>The answer of “It depends on the industry” is probably the best answer. There are so many factors that go into a graduate engineering degree. Some companies want someone “specialized”. Other companies tie promotions and certain higher engineering positions to academics/experience. In the INTEL industry, you really do not need to specialize…just have a graduate engineering degree.</p>
<p>As for the coursework, it also depends on the school. Some schools will have graduate courses ONLY for graduate students and some schools will have courses that are combined undergraduate/graduate courses. Those courses will be listed like 4XX/5XX where if you registered for the 4XX, you will get undergrad credit and for the 5XX, you will get graduate credit.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that even though you may be taking a 4XX/5XX course, your professor will know who are the grad student(s) and you will be graded harder than your undergrad classmates AND may have to do extra work (usually a paper or two).</p>
<p>May I chip in and ask a question:</p>
<p>Would employers care about whether you graduate with non-thesis or thesis-based master?
Usually people attend the Master-PhD program if they want thesis-based (and if their goal is to attain PhD)…?
While there isn’t that many 1-year non-thesis program around, is there any significant disadvantages for someone graduate with a non-thesis, in terms of job prospect?</p>
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Depends on the employer. If an employer wants someone to work in a research-intensive position, then having someone who has done actual research would be favored over someone with a non-thesis M.S.</p>
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Most students in non-thesis M.S. or M.Eng programs do not plan on getting a PHD. From what I hear, doing a M.S. with thesis is preferred for PHD programs.</p>
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Again, it depends on the employer and job. If you applying for an engineering manager position to lead other engineers, a non-thesis M.S. is enough…unless there are specific research responsibilities. Usually companies will have separate groups dedicated to just research and those groups will be separate from engineering management.</p>
<p>didn’t realize my question would start a whole debate. But can anyone assess the questions regarding salary compared from a PhD to a MS. I know it varies from what industry but can anyone estimate around what you would make?</p>
<p>Considering how important this topic is to some reading this board, we should probably use objective data instead of personal opinions. </p>
<p>Try this exercise:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Go to indeed.com, it collects all job postings on the internet into one search engine.</p></li>
<li><p>Type in “engineering Phd”. There are 23,500 nationwide results.</p></li>
<li><p>Now type in "engineering PHd (-research), which excludes all job postings in which the word research appears anywhere in the posting. There are 14,300 results, for a ratio of 60% of jobs without the word research in them.</p></li>
<li><p>Type in "engineering PHd (-research, -R&D). There are a total of 13,500 results, for a ratio of 57% of jobs without either the word research or the term R&D in them.</p></li>
<li><p>Browse through the results. You will see quite a few positions advertising for a BS/MS/PHd candidate, demonstrating that a PHd does not exclude one from BS level jobs outside of research. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>The conclusion is that there appears to be plenty of opportunities out there for PHd level candidates outside of research. Research and R&D jobs are less than 45% of the total postings. </p>
<p>If you can provide actual data that refutes this I would like to see it.</p>
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<p>If you can’t accept the truth that it is hard to predict, then I guess just assume it will be roughly another $10k beyond a MS. That probably isn’t far off.</p>
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<p>Inmotion12, I have a couple comments. The most important is that the listed qualifications on the job description don’t always match what the company hires for that position. Even if a company will look at a Ph.D. holder for a position, that doesn’t mean it is their first choice. Similarly, some of the posting I see on that site are from companies who are just posting generic jobs for a certain company or a certain group within that company and not a single specific position within that company. You see that a lot with large firms.</p>
<p>Second, just excluding the word research or R&D does not make a position a non-research position or that the position doesn’t in some way require research competency. For example, see here: <a href=“https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=SPACEEXPLORATION&cws=1&rid=734&source=Indeed.com[/url]”>https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=SPACEEXPLORATION&cws=1&rid=734&source=Indeed.com</a></p>
<p>Finally, and probably most importantly, a lot of PhD positions are filled through direct recruitment from research groups with which a company has experience. If those positions ever even go onto a website anywhere, it is usually just a formality and part of company policy as the hiring manager already has his guy. Of course, that is if they even hit the internet, because they often don’t.</p>