<p>
</p>
<p>I think Shackleford hit the nail on the head already. We have to generalize for the most part at first. We could categorize majors under hard, medium, and easy. After that, it gets more difficult ordering each individually. Or, we could categorize each under their respective disciplines, then choose the level of difficulty relative to each other. Determine the relative difficulty among the engineering degrees, the pure sciences, liberal arts, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think Shackleford hit the nail on the head already. We have to generalize for the most part at first. We could categorize majors under hard, medium, and easy. After that, it gets more difficult ordering each individually. Or, we could categorize each under their respective disciplines, then choose the level of difficulty relative to each other. Determine the relative difficulty among the engineering degrees, the pure sciences, liberal arts, etc.
[/quote]
Referring to yourself in third person is so solid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Given constant student intelligence
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's not going to give anything that's <em>useful</em> to anyone, though. There are lots of shades of intelligence, and that makes some people better at physical chemistry than at theoretical mechanics.</p>
<p>Agreeing with Ken... Saying <em>why</em> a particular subject is difficult is the only way that this is going to go from peeing-contest to useful-discussion.</p>
<p>IE, if you're good at visualizing the flow of forces in free body diagrams in your high school physics courses, those are some of the more useful skills in everyday structural engineering. A working knowledge of chemistry is surprisingly useful, and helps in metallurgy and materials studies. You don't have to be a clean programmer, but understanding how programs are put together is necessary. Now into the heavy math... As almost a given, you have to know algebra and geometry about as well as you know how to breathe. Then, that sort of proof-like discovery of the principles of calculus that you do in AP calc... Really critical. That's probably going to be necessary for pretty much all of engineering, or math, or science studies.</p>
<p>If you have a hard time with any of those things, then you'll have a rough time with structural engineering.</p>
<p>I think if we all said what sorts of high school courses and skills ended up being useful in our engineering courses and careers, that'd really help more of the question-askers of CC with knowing which fields they'd do better in. Probably would be helpful. I'm also interested in knowing what sorts of things are useful in other fields, just for curiosity's sake.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I knew that would get someone's attention. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's not going to give anything that's <em>useful</em> to anyone, though. There are lots of shades of intelligence, and that makes some people better at physical chemistry than at theoretical mechanics.
[/quote]
The correlation between those skills is probably so strong as to be irrelevant. When I say "intelligence" I'm simply referring to the g-factor, which is simply a general intelligence factor. It correlates pretty strongly with most skills that are used in academic settings. Getting nit picky with 3D object transforms and pattern recognition is of virtually no consequence, because these skills are reasonably correlative within the general population.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Agreeing with Ken... Saying <em>why</em> a particular subject is difficult is the only way that this is going to go from peeing-contest to useful-discussion.
[/quote]
A particular subject is difficult is because it requires a significantly higher g-factor to do well in...</p>
<p>
[quote]
IE, if you're good at visualizing the flow of forces in free body diagrams in your high school physics courses, those are some of the more useful skills in everyday structural engineering. A working knowledge of chemistry is surprisingly useful, and helps in metallurgy and materials studies. You don't have to be a clean programmer, but understanding how programs are put together is necessary. Now into the heavy math... As almost a given, you have to know algebra and geometry about as well as you know how to breathe. Then, that sort of proof-like discovery of the principles of calculus that you do in AP calc... Really critical. That's probably going to be necessary for pretty much all of engineering, or math, or science studies.
[/quote]
Exactly, all those things correlate with general intelligence.</p>
<p>We could also further distinguish or take into account based on workload difficulty and conceptual difficulty.</p>
<p>Architecture</p>
<p>Business</p>
<p>Engineering
* Biomedical Engineering
* Civil & Environmental Engineering
* Chemical & Biomolecular Engineering
* Electrical & Computer Engineering
* Industrial Engineering
* Mechanical Engineering</p>
<p>Liberal Arts & Social Sciences
* Anthropology
* Economics
* English
* History
* Modern & Classical Languages
* Music
* Philosophy
* Political Science
* Psychology
* Sociology</p>
<p>Natural Sciences & Mathematics
* Biology and Biochemistry
* Chemistry
* Computer Science
* Geosciences
* Mathematics
* Physics</p>
<p>Under each heading, let's determine the relative level of difficulty, then contrast among the others.</p>
<p>Architecture is an odd one because I don't think it requires as much intelligence, but it requires more talent. It's a pretty artsy major, so you don't need to be smart to draw, but you do need the ability to have vision, which not everybody has.</p>
<p>I'd say it's the most time consuming major of all of the ones listed, regardless of how smart you are. There's just a lot of busy work that you can't get around (like making hundreds of miniature trees for your model). Also, it takes 5 years to get a professional degree in architecture. I've never heard of anyone having an easy time getting a degree in this field.</p>
<p>Note: I'm not talking about 4 year BS degrees. I'm talking specifically about 5 year professional B.Arch degrees.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A particular subject is difficult is because it requires a significantly higher g-factor to do well in...
[/quote]
Not in all cases... see above.</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>I cant believe all the ******** that has been said in this post.</p>
<p>First, this guy said this:</p>
<p>"Physics...it makes calculus look like a walk in the park."</p>
<p>Again, wow. I had forgotten that math was ALL about that calc1 class that you took in your freshman year...Ignorance is bliss.</p>
<p>I dont care what position you give to your stupid engineering majors, or even physics. Just make math to be #1. Doing otherwise is an insult to everyone around here.</p>
<p>I also cant believe some people were stupid enough to say physics major know as much math as math majors. Yes, because taking:</p>
<p>calc1-2-3
diff eqs
linear algebra </p>
<p>will give you the same mathematical knowledge as a math major. To all you physics and engineering majors who think are the ***<em>, come back when you have taken a course in Topology, Real Analysis, etc. No, no, that *SUPER</em> hard calc3 class doesnt count...</p>
<p>This post has been 16 pages full on insults.</p>
<ul>
<li>pure math major.</li>
</ul>
<p>Even though I respect that as your opinion, I guarantee you will be destroyed on that claim (pure math being more difficult than physics).</p>
<p>I'd agree that Physics is harder than any math major (pure or applied), but I'm also not the best at Physics so maybe that's just my intimidation speaking.</p>
<p>However, that's not to say that they require the same math as pure or even applied math majors too (I've seen this implied somewhere else). The thing is no major encompasses another major without it being noted in the title, especially the hard sciences. Pure and applied math majors learn stuff that no Physics, engineering, or other major would learn or (let's face it) respect, and it's needless to say it the other way around.</p>
<p>Also, someone said that people are deciding the difficulty of majors by how mathematical they are, then claimed that this makes EE the hardest. How the hell does that reasoning work?</p>
<p>"people are deciding the difficulty of majors by how mathematical they are, then claimed that this makes EE the hardest. How the hell does that reasoning work?"</p>
<p>^ Exactly.</p>
<p>If that's the reasoning then theres no doubt that a pure math major will be the most mathematical...common sense.</p>
<p>Im doing a double major in pure math and CS. Theres no class in the applied math major that I wont be taking since applied math is a mix of pure math and CS classes. IMO, applied math is a joke, its a mix of the easy math classes and the easy CS classes. Applied math doesnt take the higher level theoretical math classes nor the higher level CS classes. </p>
<p>Either way, my opinion is the same, pure math > * whether or not you make the judgment by how mathematical they are or by whatever. </p>
<p>Im sure many will agree with me, while at the same time others will disagree since they want their major to be perceived as the hardest (engineering/physics).</p>
<p>Again, someone explain to me how do engineers/physicists have the same mathematical knowledge as a math major when all engineers/physicists have to take is calc1-2-3, differential equations and (sometimes) linear algebra. This is without taking into account that they may take some other math classes as electives but the same argument can be said with a math major taking engineering/physics electives. (which i am).</p>
<ul>
<li>pure math major</li>
</ul>
<p>
</p>
<p>Incorrect. I'm a physics major, and I am required to take Cal I-III, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Introduction to Partial Differential Equations, and Vector Analysis. As electives, I will also probably be taking two Partial Differential Equations courses. </p>
<p>You can't base entirely the difficulty of a subject based on its mathematics content, although I still say pure science, pure mathematics, and engineering degrees are the hardest.</p>
<p>That's a lot of math, but I think Acere's point is that Physics and Engineering majors tend to not realize that there is more to math than what they learn.</p>
<p>Pretty much all of the subjects you listed (barring Linear Algebra) branch out from Calculus, the kind of math most useful for those majors.</p>
<p>But there are a lot more areas of math, like modern algebra, abstract algebra, number theory, geometry (not the stuff you learned in 9th grade), etc.. Math majors tend to be the most familiar with these.</p>
<p>I know you can say the same thing about Physics and math majors - I learned mechanics and (barely learned) E&M. I understand that there is a lot more to Physics than those two common courses, though.</p>
<p>I understand what he's saying. I want to head to graduate school after I graduate, so I'm sure I'll encounter the actual higher-level mathematics courses at some point. I have an innate curiosity of advanced math, although I'll be glad when I'm done with them. lol.</p>
<p>Thanks chris07.</p>
<p>I believe you are the only one that understands what im trying to say.</p>
<p>I know I sounded cocky in my posts but that wasn't my intention.</p>
<p>Sorry.</p>
<p>acere-- i would say you are wrong. i think people in physics and engineering realize more than most that there is much more difficult math out there (african art history majors with a concentration in women's literature of the 1780s wouldn't have the foggiest idea but that is for a different forum). you are making a groundless generalization.
apology accepted.</p>
<ul>
<li>the hardest major is... MAJOR PAYNE!</li>
</ul>
<p>greatest movie of all-time... or not.</p>
<p>Yes, you have to understand that when different subjects branch out of another, they only take with them either the most basic or the most applicable to their field, and as such, Physics, which is pretty much applied mathematics, (and Eng since it's applied Physics) does not go as into dept as a BS in mathematics would take you, although it might almost meet the same as BA in math. What people in Physics and Engineering have to realize is that the world isn't made up of pretty equations; real life objects don't just come with fancy equations so you can graph them properly and determine their gradients and such, but that's where mathematics come in. Math majors take a class called Modeling in which they are exposed to such things, whereas physics and engineering classes, you are given classical problems to deal with that give you coordinates, dimensions and such. Heck, even engineers use CAD instead of hand drawings so that might dumb down their real life usage of math a bit too since they're relying on the set tools.</p>
<p>As it stands, whatever you do, you depend heavily on where you branched from. Physics will always rely on math, engineering always on physics, biology always on chemistry, and chemistry always on physics and so on; that's just where their foundational concepts are derived from. It sure isn't the other way around where the only way mathematics can exist is if an engineer is applying it to real life. That's not to say that one is more difficult on the other. To get to the point, as a physics major, don't even pretend to think you go through all the math that a math major would; you just listed yourself that you're going mostly off of calculus (differentials, partial differentials, etc.), you have yet to dive into the real higher level maths. Partial differentiations and differential equations is still level 2 math, many of which are offered at community colleges, whereas you won't see topology or modeling or abstract anywhere, which just comes to show that you really have no idea what you're talking about when you try to pretend you have as much math under your belt as a math major. You're a physics major...physics...physics...so you have more phyiscs...physics... than math majors.</p>
<p>(I'm an ENG major, which stems from physics, so I am not a math major going on a rant)</p>
<p>What Acere and chris07 have been saying is exactly why it's so difficult to rank majors based on difficulty. We don't even know what's going on in other majors unless we're double majors! How many engineering majors have actually learned abstract algebra and number theory? I sure didn't, so I can't say whether my major is harder or easier than a math major.</p>