<p>^^^Interesting there. Question JoeJoe, what about Physics, Math, and all the other sciences? Where would they rank along with those engineering ones you gave?</p>
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What do you guys think of Biomedical Engineering?
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<p>I wouldn't rate BE as one of the harder disciplines. </p>
<p>You learn learn circuit theory but not as much as EE/CompE, you will learn some ME mechanics and materials, and you do a lot of biology, chemistry and physiology. I'd say it is better to just do EE or ME and then get a graduate degree in BE.</p>
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^^^Interesting there. Question JoeJoe, what about Physics, Math, and all the other sciences? Where would they rank along with those engineering ones you gave?
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<p>Probably something like this.</p>
<p>NucE
ChemE
Physics
EE
CompE
AeroE
ME
Computer Science
Mathematics
BE
ArchE
CivE
IE </p>
<p>It's hard to say though because a lot of this differs from school to school and I don't have a lot of exposure to topics outside my major (CompE..so I've gotten a bit of EE, CS, physics, math...). I've looked at curriculums for all of these though so I have an idea of what classes they take. Not that any of these majors are easy...they are all difficult majors so it is hard to rank them.</p>
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Which gets to the point I've been making before: schools should not be expelling those students who do poorly in engineering, because the truth is, those students would probably have graduated if they had just majored in an easier subject when they started. Maybe they would have gotten mediocre grades, but at least they would have passed. But throwing them out means that they won't get a degree at all, and that's a serious problem.
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<p>Well, they won't get a degree from the school that expelled them (if the school has a no-readmit policy). If they really wanted a degree, they could apply to other schools. How favorable these schools are looked upon by (competitive) grad schools, employers, etc. is debatable, of course.</p>
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Contrast that with another major where you actually enjoy the material, but still get terrible grades. I can think of numerous engineering students that underwent that; heck, some of them eventually were expelled and so ended up with no degree at all. All of them undoubtedly thought that engineering was extremely difficult.
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<p>Yes, this is true. In addition to harsh grading policies, some students are just not as prepared as other students for certain majors/classes. They may enjoy the work immensely, but may not perform as well on the midterms, finals, etc. as other students. This is one reason why I wish more schools would give more tests per quarter or semester, because it would give the students more data points to assess their performance.</p>
<p>If you sleep so few hours, you will certainly see diminishing returns on your work.</p>
<p>I can't believe what I'm hearing from you all!</p>
<p>At UF, I have one friend who is a theater and history major. Every night she has 2-3 hour rehearsals followed by hours and hours of composition and grueling written work. I can honestly say that she has quite a bit more work on weekends and holidays than the average engineering major (and UF is ranked pretty highly in engineering, #24 i believe). This brings up a point of mine - a lot of B.A. degrees tend to be easier because they're usually situated in the liberal arts disciplines and as such, want to influence their students to take a more multidisciplinary approach to their studies. They allow students with a broader intellectual curiosity to explore their interests and become more circumspect and erudite citizens.</p>
<p>There's no way in the world a B.S. Engineering major can graduate with a double major in some disparate discipline within the course of 4 or even 5 years - yet someone studying mathematics could easily do so (with a B.A. of course). In my school's mathematics department, well over 50% of the students double major, and not having at least a minor is unheard of. </p>
<p>Minoring in engineering is not too common, and double majoring is even rarer. </p>
<p>The way in which some of you posit "rankings" seems biased and pretentious to me. There's no reason to look down on non-engineering majors simply because their grading curves aren't as harsh - I have a throng of friends who study long hours preparing for History or English exams, regardless of the curve, simply because of their love of the subject.</p>
<p>I know I've just restated what some of you have already said, and didn't really answer the OP's original question, but this is just something I wanted to address.</p>
<p>Heyyy, who bumped this thread?? It was mercifully deceased!! >=(</p>
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There's no way in the world a B.S. Engineering major can graduate with a double major in some disparate discipline within the course of 4 or even 5 years
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<p>I know a couple people who did, actually, but they were all a little crazy.</p>
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Well, they won't get a degree from the school that expelled them (if the school has a no-readmit policy). If they really wanted a degree, they could apply to other schools. How favorable these schools are looked upon by (competitive) grad schools, employers, etc. is debatable, of course.
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<p>They could apply to other schools, but can they get in? Every (respectable) school looks at great askance at a transfer applicant who had flunked out his previous school. </p>
<p>What that sadly means is that bravery is punished. You are better off not even having attempted a difficult major like engineering at all than attempting it and doing poorly. As I've always said, if somebody isn't going to major in engineering anyway, then who cares what their engineering grades were? Just wipe them from his transcript. But engineering programs refuse to do this.</p>
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But engineering programs refuse to do this.
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<p>As I understand it, <em>all</em> programs refuse to do this... Or did I miss out on the "flunk out of psychology FREE!" deal at my local university?</p>
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They could apply to other schools, but can they get in? Every (respectable) school looks at great askance at a transfer applicant who had flunked out his previous school.
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<p>I don't see how this can be changed. Universities cannot admit every student. There have to be some criteria for admission. Even if students were selected at random, some "deserving" students would not be admitted. Also, less prestigious schools do confer engineering degrees, and while they may not guarantee employment at every company (neither do degrees from prestigious schools), there are people who graduate from such schools who go on to have engineering careers.</p>
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What that sadly means is that bravery is punished. You are better off not even having attempted a difficult major like engineering at all than attempting it and doing poorly. As I've always said, if somebody isn't going to major in engineering anyway, then who cares what their engineering grades were? Just wipe them from his transcript. But engineering programs refuse to do this.
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<p>There is no way to tell in advance whether someone is going to complete an engineering program. Even "can't miss" straight-A 99th %ile SAT/ACT students flunk out, sometimes. If you want to be an engineer, you have to try to get through an engineering program.</p>
<p>Let's say that universities destroyed the records of students who flunked out of engineering programs. Suppose those students try other majors, even in other schools, but decide they want to be engineering majors again. Suppose the schools changed their policies and readmitted those students. Should they be forced to retake the classes they passed because all of their prior records are destroyed?</p>
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I don't see how this can be changed. Universities cannot admit every student. There have to be some criteria for admission. Even if students were selected at random, some "deserving" students would not be admitted.
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<p>I am not asking for the criteria to be changed. I am simply saying that if somebody is good enough to have gotten in as a freshman, then they should not be punished for having a 'bad' stint in engineering. </p>
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Also, less prestigious schools do confer engineering degrees, and while they may not guarantee employment at every company (neither do degrees from prestigious schools), there are people who graduate from such schools who go on to have engineering careers.
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<p>And why should somebody be forced to have to resort to a lesser school just because he tried out engineering at another school and performed poorly? </p>
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There is no way to tell in advance whether someone is going to complete an engineering program. Even "can't miss" straight-A 99th %ile SAT/ACT students flunk out, sometimes. If you want to be an engineer, you have to try to get through an engineering program.
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<p>Uh, nobody is saying that the system is going to be perfect. But the system can be made a lot tighter than it is now. Come on, when over half of the students don't make it through, that means there is a lot of slack. </p>
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Let's say that universities destroyed the records of students who flunked out of engineering programs. Suppose those students try other majors, even in other schools, but decide they want to be engineering majors again. Suppose the schools changed their policies and readmitted those students. Should they be forced to retake the classes they passed because all of their prior records are destroyed?
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<p>Yes. Or, at least, be forced to take over those classes that they performed poorly in. After all, why not? They performed poorly in them, so it is entirely fair for them to do those courses again if they want to be engineers.</p>
<p>On the other hand, what if they don't want to be engineers? Then why should it matter what their engineering grades are? I still have not heard anybody provide me with a satisfactory answer to this question.</p>
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Uh, nobody is saying that the system is going to be perfect. But the system can be made a lot tighter than it is now. Come on, when over half of the students don't make it through, that means there is a lot of slack.
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<p>Do you mean that schools need to be more selective or that there's a problem with the engineering curriculum? </p>
<p>Half the students drop out their first year because they don't realize how much work and how difficult engineering is. Other majors have drop outs too. The rate isn't as high as engineering but you might be surprised. Did you know 25% of all college freshman drop out?</p>
<p>The</a> dropout dilemma: One in four college freshmen drop out. What is going on here? What does it take to stay in? | Careers and Colleges | Find Articles at BNET
Freshmen</a> Dropout - Associated Content</p>
<p>The question is so simple to answer, yet people choose to make this topic difficult with their liberal backwards way of thinking. What is the hardest 4yr Degree? Simple, any of the Math and Science majors. Do you think that engineers start with a very high salary because it was an easy 4 years?? </p>
<p>j.hackleman seems to be missing the point. Just because his friend spends hours a day rehearsing for a drama class or a play doesn’t mean you could compare it to the difficulty of any of the engineering disciplines. </p>
<p>and NO, business people don’t minor in engineering because they couldn’t even pass the first math class which is why they are taking a liberal arts degree that requires a dual degree or several minors, because individually their degrees are worthless, even from a great school like UF. His friend will certainly notice the difference between Eng and LA when he or she receives that first pay check. </p>
<p>If you don’t think engineering is the hardest degree, look through your own schools pre-law and pre-med suggestions. The university of Florida suggests students take Chemical Engineering as a major to better prepare them for the difficult course load in law or medicine. Notice how they don’t suggest Drama or history like your friend was in.</p>
<p>What about Geology?</p>
<p>I say music is the hardest major considering if you never touched it before college</p>
<p>ChemE is generally one of the most demanding majors. ChemE requires organic chemistry; some programs even require a semester of bio on top of the orgo. So you got the worse combo - engineering + premed.</p>
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<p>I would like to see this source.</p>
<p>I think this is what he meant, chaos.
[Professional</a> Prep](<a href=“http://undergraduate.che.ufl.edu/enhancement/professional_prep.html]Professional”>http://undergraduate.che.ufl.edu/enhancement/professional_prep.html)</p>
<p>Sorry, but the hardest college degree is Sports Management. You had some good ideas, though. Sports management. This is a well-accepted fact; look it up.</p>
<p>What about CS or Finance?</p>