<p>Physics followed by math.</p>
<p>The smartest people in the world are either physicists or mathematicians.</p>
<p>At my school I doubt Physics is harder than most of the engineering majors. Lower unit load, similar curve.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I imagine civil engineering is perceived to be the easiest of the 4 traditional disciplines because you don't used high-level math as often as you do in other majors, like chemical engineering. There simply isn't a need to use calculus or differential equations to solve all the problems, even though quite often it is based on advanced math concepts. The precision you get just won't be found in industry, so sometimes we use simplified equations or graphs. Can you really model the properties of soil in an equation very precisely? Of course not; there can be a lot of variation, even in nearby areas. Can you determine the strength of concrete just by knowing how much of each material goes in at the plant? Of course not, because there are so many uncontrollable factors in transit to the pour site, during the pour, and after the pour.</p>
<p>What it all comes down to is that you can control practically everything in the chemical and electrical engineering industries. Lab conditions are carefully monitored and taken care of. In civil engineering, everything you design gets built outside in the elements. This difference is probably why the math is usually simpler, thus making civil engineering easier than chemE and EE.</p>
<p>I'd say chemical engineering is the toughest of the 4 traditional engineering majors, simply because of all the math. I've had chemical engineering, mechanical engineering, and electrical engineering roommates (and i'm a civil engineer) and I've seen that the chemEs by far spent the most time doing calculations.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But that begs the questions of why is ChemE so mathematically intense and does it necessarily have to be that way?</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is that most practicing chemical engineers in industry don't use high-level math as part of their job. They don't spend their time deriving complex calculus-based models. They rely on rules of thumb, handbooks such as Perry's, and computer-based simulations. </p>
<p>I knew a guy who worked for a summer as a chemical engineering intern in a research lab for a major company that employed numerous people with MS and PhD's in ChemE. He reported back that he was the only person around who actually knew how to calculate differential equations, surface integrals, flow curves, and so forth. Now, obviously all of his coworkers knew how to do those things back when they were students. But they never used it on the job, and consequently forgot it all. Hence, when one guy, who actually had a PhD in ChemE, wanted to bone up on calculus because he wanted to help his daughter with her math homework (she was in high school at the time), that guy didn't turn to one of the other engineers. He turned to that summer intern, because he was the only person in the office who still really knew the stuff. </p>
<p>To reiterate, this story happened in an engineering research lab, and even there, most of the employees never used and consequently could not remember advanced math. Imagine how it must be in a regular chemical engineering setting, i.e. in a chemical plant somewhere. </p>
<p>The sad truth of the matter is that chemical engineering curriculas force students to learn advanced math that the vast majority of them will never need to know. It has been said that the true purpose of a chemical engineering curriculum is not to produce future practicing chemical engineers. It is to produce future chemical engineering professors. Yet the fact is, the vast majority of chemical engineering students will never become, and have no intention of ever becoming, professors.</p>
<p>^ Yep. Not once in industry have I had to use calculus. A colleague recently needed to solve for the fluctuating volume of a chemical storage tank cylinder turned on its side, because it had no volume markings on the level gauge...he used calculus to derive the formula...I told him to look online for the answer.</p>
<p>Damn all that time spent solving Navier-Stokes equations!</p>
<p>So why the intense math in the chemical engineering curriculum? I can understand why it's important in any engineering field to be familiar with the derivation of important formulas, but the existing system still seems to be too much. </p>
<p>Are chemical engineering professors more academically oriented than professors in other engineering departments? If so, then why? Do they all just happen to really love math a lot more than other types of engineers? I just find this really interesting now that I hear the industry doesn't come close to using the same level of math as college courses do.</p>
<p>Well, as an engineering physics major, my view is obviously biased, but I've seen some people say a few things about physics that aren't quite true.</p>
<p>First off, yes, here we have a lot of work as undergrads, and none of this makes any friggin sense. Quantum mechanical wave packets and statistical density of states are just such abstract physical concepts that no one ever really knows what they mean here. But we're all expected to know them for our undergraduate exams. And worth noting is that it is not uncommon for an exam in physics here to have an average score of ~50-60% </p>
<p>But I digress. One of the greatest parts of being a physics major is telling people that I'm a physics major. Their awe-inspired gasps as they lament that they could never do physics are reassuring. Regardless of how difficult it is, physics is generally perceived as about the hardest thing there is. People don't tend to give a "Wow, you must be a genius," if you're studying engineering, even if it is the most difficult major at your school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I digress. One of the greatest parts of being a physics major is telling people that I'm a physics major. Their awe-inspired gasps as they lament that they could never do physics are reassuring. Regardless of how difficult it is, physics is generally perceived as about the hardest thing there is. People don't tend to give a "Wow, you must be a genius," if you're studying engineering, even if it is the most difficult major at your school.
[/quote]
Only non-technical majors would think that. And I highly doubt there is a huge disconnect between Computer Science/Math and Physics in terms of awe-factor.</p>
<p>Agreeing with Mr Payne. I've had my fair share of awe-inspired gasps when I say that I design skyscrapers and stuff. People are impressed by a lot of different things, and I don't think that's the best way to gauge whether what you do is hard or not.</p>
<p>People are generally pretty googly-eyed and full of awe-inspired gasps upon learning that people are pop stars, and pop stars are hardly rocket scientists or brain surgeons...</p>
<p>Pop star?</p>
<p>I yawn at that.</p>
<p>Physics...it makes calculus look like a walk in the park.</p>
<p>The hardest class is an English or Art History gen-ed where the teacher hates you because you're a male. It's impossible to get a good grade no matter how hard you try, since they won't even give you your papers back or tell you your grades on them.</p>
<p>If the instructor really hates you, there is not much you can really do... but, aren't there regulations that you should get your results back? You should demand those papers. What a lazy instructor...</p>
<p>tahncol86, obviously you have never TA'd a large introductory course... ;)</p>
<p>(<em>remembers stacks upon stacks of grading piling up... shudders in horror</em>)</p>
<p>Oh yeah... I almost forgot those days being one of those 300 students in a class during Freshman... but again, at that time I didn't really care much about getting my things back :).</p>
<p>Wow. What horrible grammar in the OP.</p>
<p>Me == working towards BS(Math) && BS(Chemistry) @ Stanford</p>
<p>How "hard" a major is depends on your background, and how much you want to push. I love math, and was blessed enough to be able to tackle difficult math. This is not to say that the Math degree will be easy to obtain, but it WILL be easier than, let's say a CS major for ME..</p>
<p>Anyway, it's a personal question that can only be answered by looking at your own strengths. </p>
<p>Also, for those still seeking an answer...Things to consider..</p>
<p>BS/MS duo (that IS a Masters, you CAN take graduate courses...)
BS/minor (though try to supplement your BS with useful courses...)
Honors BS (this is a challenge!)
yaddi yaddi yadda...</p>
<p>Have an open mind.</p>
<p>If you're in high school, don't worry about it too much. First, find out which school you'll be at. Second, have a general idea - if you want to be "fuzzy"(philosophy, english, art...) or "techie"(Linguistics, Symbolic Systems, Nucear Engineering...), if you're here, you're ahead of the curve. Only super duper prepared folks KNOW what major they're at.</p>
<p>To give you an idea...I took classes at MIT my junior year in HS, had a bunch of units at a local college, and was enrolled in ALL of the AP/Honors classes offered at my schools - even with this background I had to jiggle and wiggle around in choosing my majors. So, explore!! (This is important!!) I mean it's about you! Explore yourself, and what will work for you!! =) Good Luck!</p>
<p>fuzzy? as in the beard of a philosophy student, or the mind of said student?</p>
<p>Wow. Its a surprise that not many has mentioned CS. I always thought of CS as the hardest major to be offered by a higher institution. </p>
<p>Of course, my opinion is biased since I am majoring in CS myself.</p>
<p>Anyone know the difficulty of Systems Engineering compared to the rest?</p>
<p>Arch is just alot of work. Those kids are busy around the clock. I would say it's one of the more time consuming majors, not hardest.</p>
<p>Systems Engineering is one of the easier majors. The major course work, I believe, is to take the intro classes of other engineering/cs degrees.</p>