The response to yield protection is that the applicant has to lie - just as the colleges are effectively lying with their BS yield protection. They tell every single college, over and over, “I love you best and you are ABSOLUTELY my first choice!” If asked by an interviewer “Where else are you applying”, they respond evasively, and don’t reveal in an interview that they’ve applied to any other school (other than their in-state safety school). They do what they have to do to play this ridiculous game, since it’s obvious by now that the colleges are, too. And if one’s child insists that they won’t play this game, that they will not court schools that they feel only “meh” about, then tell them not to bother applying to those, and to plan on going to their in-state safety if they don’t get into any of the reaches that they desperately want.
Yeah, my kid won’t say to any college, you are my first choice. Honestly, I think it has little impact.
But students need to appear to be the “typical” student that a college yields from that high school. So if the stats match up, others have accepted with similar stats and the applicant has support from CG and teachers via great recommendations than their chances do increase. But it’s not pure science. At all.
Since interviews have all but disappeared it’s harder for students to seal the deal. Kids can do things like study the curriculum, connect with the school, visit etc to ensure that their essays reflect they did the research.
I still think kids applying to so many schools leaves everyone in limbo. Unless a kid wants to do ED, they have to go through this convoluted process and endless waiting. Most end up with many acceptances they don’t care about and until they get the acceptance they want they are stressed. Some are lucky and get choices early. Some get choices later. Some end up with a second/third choice.
People keep saying it all works out. Yeah, if you think that going to a car dealership and ending up with any old car there works, so that makes it fine. Not the white model X you really wanted and that drove perfectly for you. It’s an expensive thing to settle on second/third choice.
That! 100% that.
I don’t buy this - top kids may end up at their state flagship or a BU/NU/Tulane or a top LAC, tec.
Yields vary wildly - like CWRU is low. Other expensive schools are typically low.
I don’t think someone says - they can probably get into Vanderbilt - and I’m a lesser school. So i’m going to turn them down - because they’d not come here anyway…makes no sense (to me).
Short of your top top tier, yields bounce and are impacted by ED and athletes and other hooked so yields are lower than they typically show.
Our kids CG seems to be of the opinion to keep the list as it should be (solid top tier schools) and just apply to more schools to balance out the yield protection that’s increased over the last two years. The CG said that having a solid safety EA and then doing what you would have normally done is a good strategy for very high stats kids with very strong ECs in many areas. Could vary based on what state you are from, the reputation of the school and so many other factors.
Well, the strategy is killing us, the parents. But hoping it works out. Our Kid is definitely going to college but where? No one knows.
I also think the problem is aggravated by schools that no longer ask for additional essays or interviews. If the only material the student submits is the common app, the student has no way to communicate why they like a particular school. So, the school has nothing to go on other than the stats, and then it is easier for them to make assumptions that the student isn’t serious or a risk to their yield - when in fact, they turned down a kid who considered their school their top choice. I told my child to stay away from the schools who don’t ask for additional essays/info - because if they don’t want to know more about you, that says something about them and the quality of their admissions process. There is still one on his list that does this…and it used to be his first choice - but he grew to appreciate the opportunity to tell interviewers at other schools who he is and what he likes about their school. He appreciated answering the essay questions about why he wanted to attend a certain school. And it finally turned him off completely from the school that never bothered to ask for any thing other than the common app.
An issue I see on CC over and over again is the lament that students have to apply to “so many schools” to try to guarantee admission. And these laments are usually from parents/students discussing high stat applicants.
This, in my opinion, is a self-inflicted wound. When the college list is revealed, most times it is the same time-worn 20 or so colleges/universities that populate the Top 25-40 most rejective lists.
Applying to 20 or so schools that have basically the same low odds of admission is baffling to me. Thinking that any school with a 30% admission rate or below could possibly be looked at as a safety by 99.9% of applicants (and yes, that most probably includes your child too) is baffling to me.
But more baffling is the idea that those schools are the only schools that offer appropriate rigor and fit for high stat applicants. That view is, in my opinion, both ignorant and parochial.
There are plenty of schools out there that offer rigor, excellent instruction and a great college experience. And there are exceptionally few areas of study so esoteric as to force anyone into only applying to schools at a certain level of selectivity.
I would love to have found any evidence that these laments have something to do with anything other than the belief the applicant is entitled to a very specific type of prestige during college admission. Unfortunately, that seems to be the sticking point.
I wish more families could start their college searches from the bottom up. Rather than starting with a list of college names - they would create a list of attributes they want from a college experience and then look at all the schools that have those attributes.
If students and families started from what they were looking for without restricting themselves to certain ‘name brands’, they would find lots of schools that fit their parameters whose admission policies are less rejective than the ones often selected. And maybe then we wouldn’t hear so much from families upset by conspiratorial ‘yield management theories’ and how hard it is for high stats students be able to get admitted to schools (can we just take a moment to think about how ridiculous that sounds???).
High stat students have the easiest time getting admitted to schools. What they struggle with (strangely in my view, as math should be a strong point for most of them) is understanding probability and statistics.
Take for example, CWRU. I am going to use the 2019 Common Data Set stats, as that was the last year they required the SAT/ACT.
They had about 29k applicants. The top 25% of applicants scored 1480/34 or above which is 99th percentile (64% of all applicants scored above a 1400 which is 95th percentile, and 99% of applicants scored above 1200 - 75th percentile). That means that ~7250 applicants had a a 1480/34 or higher SAT/ACT score - scoring in the 99% nationwide, and ~18,500 applicants scores above the 95th percentile.
CWRU accepted ~8000 total students to fill ~1600 freshman spots (about 4k each men and women). Do people really think they should have just accepted the top 25% of applicants plus however many more to get to 8k…regardless of how areas of interest aligned, gender breakdown, geographic desirability, and all the other ways highly rejective schools make admission decisions?
Do people really think, seeing those raw numbers, that there weren’t enough other really high stat candidates that stood out more than their own application? That perhaps their spot on the waitlist truly does indicate that the field is highly competitive and high stats alone don’t guarantee admission?
We’ve done this rodeo once…D20 spent a lot of time researching schools, getting 8-10 on a final list…and then ended up applying only to 3. She was finished by November on her senior year - getting into her first choice (an academic safety, merit money match/reach). Her school isn’t on any of those well worn lists, but she is getting a great education and was just recently awarded a National level scholarship as a sophomore.
We are now starting the rodeo back up, D23 on her way shortly for her first round of college tours. Again, she has been building her list from the ground up - figuring out what was most important (prestige not even making the list) and hoping to have 8-10 finalists by the beginning of summer.
This doesn’t have to be Thunderdome. Students and parents choose the list of schools to apply to. They can choose schools that fit their parameters that are likely admits as long as they realize that almost no one gets everything they want. For some, cost is/will be a big issue. For others, location might need to be flexible. And many high stat students may have to redefine/reimagine what ‘prestige’ means.
It is what it is. I would think smart kids and parents wouldn’t have this much difficulty.
Cannot like this post enough. SO MUCH TRUTH and wisdom.
It may not make sense, but plenty of GCs and private counsellors (many of whom are ex-AOs) will tell you this is exactly what happens at many schools that are yield conscious/yield protective. Not all schools of course, but certain schools.
I think the lesser schools counter with aid - maybe you get into Vandy and get nada. But you get into Miami and get $25K off.
I think it’s not that simple - they are looking at how much you connect with the school, etc. so a school like American may turn a blind eye to someone who pays no attention to them other than apply.
But provided everyone is even - everyone is doing what they’re suppose to - i’m just not buying it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen…I just don’t see how.
There’s a whole thread on this so I don’t want to open a pandora’s box here 
I have some personal experience with this. Feel free to PM me if interested and I can explain more.
Not necessarily maybe those two schools didn’t think the applicant was likely to attend.
I know - i saw - Tulane, CWRU.
I mean, CWRU has a 16% yield - and take out ED and - that’s why i say - i’m not buying it.
I can see where they utilize Demonstrated Interest or optional essays, etc.
But yeah - let’s not go there again. I saw the thread - just don’t buy the logic - well i do to the few things I said.
All good.
thx
An applicant gaming the college’s level of interest game can give the truth, but not necessarily the whole truth, to this type of question. I.e. list what the college in question would consider competitive peer schools and those which the college in question usually wins cross-admits from, but not mention any more selective schools that the college in question usually loses cross-admits to.
This.
A lot of people buy into myths. This is such an example.
I would love to respond and provide a personal example (an email exchange with a current AO at a school my D has applied to) to demonstrate that this isn’t just a myth but yield protection is off topic for this thread so I’ll give it a pass.
Wow, that’s crazy. But I wonder if things would be different if they could only apply to 10 colleges? The colleges would not have to yield protect so much I would think.
Myths often have evidence which show they are “true” but doesn’t make it so.
Sure. Go ahead and believe or not believe whatever you like.