What is the job market like for accounting grads?

College Majors Business Major
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<p>The problem ME 76 is that the probability of becoming an engineering manager, even at the basic level (forget become a CTO) is MUCH lower than becoming an accounting manager or something like that. </p>

<p>For arguments sake, let’s only compare top firms to top firms (an accountant at the Big 4 vs an engineer at Google). An accountant, after passing their CPA is virtually guaranteed a promotion to a senior manager at a Big 4 firm after 5 years or so. If they do not like it, after those 5 years, they can either get an MBA and transition into very lucrative F500 corp finance positions, they can transition to a smaller firm and become a partner there, or they can become a partner at the Big 4 (much smaller percent). These are all lucrative tracks, and even if they get stuck at senior manager and top off at around 120-130k, that is still a lot better than most engineers, even at top firms like Google. So assuming worst case scenario (no promotions beyond a certain normal level, and trust me, the senior manager promotion is very normal for Big 4 Accountants while engineering promotions are anything but guarantees), accounting wins.</p>

<p>Engineers on the other hand start off fast and get topped off fast. You can argue as much as you want, but engineering is notorious for this. Most people will stop at 95-100k, and a select few will go on to become higher level consultants and a very select group will be fortunate enough to make manager. Now, to become a manager, you will have to at the very least obtain a masters, and at the best firms where more credentialing is necessary, you’ll have to probably get an MBA from a good school. Assuming the masters is a wash (although I believe that accounting masters are shorter than MBA masters), this means that you will have not only the expense of the MBA, but perhaps the opportunity cost of the MBA factored in as well (unless you go part-time). If you do all of this, then yes, you MIGHT get promoted (depending on other factors out of your hand). If you do manage to get promoted, then you virtually have the same exit ops as most big 4 people in that you reach high levels of management.</p>

<p>So actually, the vast majority of accountants at the top firms will out-earn the vast majority of the people in engineering in the long run. Accountants also possess the same entrepreneurial options that engineers have in terms of pursuing consulting work, and, if either make it, they both have options in very high-level management. So I’d argue that the majority of accountants, as long as they pass their CPA which is expected when comparing top firms will out-earn engineers.</p>

<p>Btw, before you throw a hissy fit about me being biased, I was an engineering major turned business, and I’m not even necessarily doing accounting, so I am both well versed about the engineer track and have no reason to promote accounting.</p>

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Proof?</p>

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What about attrition?</p>

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Entry level engineers at google get paid 80-90k/year. That’s a massive differential. They should be looking at 120k/year in 5 years. Sorry, no go.</p>

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And no, this is just wrong. I think the interesting thing with engineering firms is that they are much less impressed by an MBA than most other places.</p>

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That, simply, is not backed up by any statistic. Sorry. Engineers at my company make more than accountants (after normalized for experience).</p>

<p>Taking the top 10% of engineers in terms of cumulative earning versus the top 10% of accountants. Frankly, I just don’t see it.</p>

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<p>Thanks ME 76 you made good points.</p>

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<p>creamgethamoney, as Mr. Payne said you have absolutely zero data to back your claims up. You are just completely wrong. It is laughable that you claim to be well versed in engineering when you are an engineering major turned business major. You have zero industrial experience in engineering and you act like you really have a clue about engineering salaries.</p>

<p>You actually think that Google engineers don’t make 120-130k. Give me a break. This is just too much. As Mr. Payne said, entry level engineers at Google make 80-90k. As I said before, people on this forum need to stop spreading biased rhetoric and actually back some things up with facts.</p>

<p>Now as I said, I don’t want this to turn into an accounting vs. engineering thread because given that scenario the argument will just perpetuate. Let me reiterate what I already said, I have the utmost respect for both professions and I am just dismayed at people on this forum acting like they are experts in a subject even though they have absolutely zero background in it. Do not make up lies to try to promote your biased agenda because you are misleading the people that are trying to get truthful information from this forum.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I cannot support anyone’s claims unless they have credibility. This means they actually HAVE work experience, Not some college student who is getting their information off of these boards from other inexperienced college students.</p>

<p>Laughable.</p>

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<p>Let me be very clear: I am NOT nor have I ever knocked engineering as a career or as a major. When I started the featured thread, most posters seemed to think that the only lucrative career path was that of engineering, and hard science and math. I wanted to provide a different perspective. </p>

<p>From my experience, I do believe that those with accounting backgrounds, assuming good work ethics, have more opportunities and better upward mobility than that of most engineers. Can an engineer become a CEO? Of course? Can an engineer get an MBA and go into top management? Yes. However, I do believe that there are more opportunities and more creative lucrative positions with those that have an accounting background. </p>

<p>Again, I am NOT knocking engineering as a career or as a major.</p>

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<p>Ask anyone working at the Big 4. Every year you work there, you get raises, and it’s generally pretty easy to get promoted to a higher level manager provided you are competent because people change industries. I can’t prove it to you, this is something you’ll have to ask personally, although there are posts discussing this here.</p>

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<p>I discussed what happens if you don’t like the Big 4. You can become a controller, move to a smaller firm where it is easier to become a partner, among other things that all lead to high paying careers as well. CFOs, who often have a background in accounting, get paid quite well depending on the firm. You can go into consulting, open your own practice, etc.</p>

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<p>I probably shouldn’t have used google as an example, because admittedly, I don’t know that much about them (I just went off their brand name), but there are plenty of other engineers at great companies that get capped off quickly due to the nature of the business. I know you’re going to keep asking me for proof, so check the engineering forums, and you’ll see a lot of posts discussing the glass ceiling in engineering, even at good firms. Again, I shouldn’t have used google since I’m not that familiar with them, but I know plenty of people at Intel, Microsoft, and places like that who had to get an MBA or switch industries to break through that.</p>

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<p>It’s possible to move into engineering management without an MBA, but there’s no doubt that an MBA can help your chances significantly. If all companies cared about was a masters in engineering/a PHD, why is engineering such a big feeder to top MBA schools? Why do so many engineers talk about getting an MBA to make a career change from being just an engineer to becoming a manager. Again, it’s possible if you’re very brilliant and have great soft-skills, but that is definitely not everyone. Plus, even with a masters, there is NO guarantee that eventually you will be an engineering manager. Engineering managers are no longer doing technical work, which is what engineers are, they are BUSINESSMEN. Again, check the forums/talk to people who work there. There are some high-level tech managers, but when you’re talking COO/CEO, those are businessmen. Engineers have a great shot at CIO or something, but CIO is considered to be one of the “lower paying” (great money still) of the C-level positions. Check out any salary survey for proof of that.</p>

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<p>Now it’s my turn to ask for proof. I guarantee that working for a Big 4 is much more probable than working for some of the great engineering companies that pay a lot, so if you’re going to use the proof thing on me, please demonstrate that yourself before completely dismissing me. Again, it’s a fairly COMMON path for accountants to move up in the heirarchy within their firm, or to switch into private industries as controllers/CFOs. For an engineer, the career path is generally to senior engineer, and then requires either a lot of dedication to become a manager (if not an MBA) or it requires you to open your own consulting firm to become a manager. Not every engineer is destined to be a manager at some point, just as not every accountant is destined to be a partner, although I’d still argue it’s much more likely for an accountant to be a high-level manager than an engineer.</p>

<p>And ME 76, I don’t why you keep thinking that I’m some government agency spreading propaganda about accounting. What POSSIBLE advantage would making more people want to pursue business have for me? If anything, it’s worse for people to follow my interests because that means there is more competition for me, so I don’t know why you keep harping on that. I’ll admit I was wrong about google because I’m not that familiar with them and shouldn’t have used them, but they are definitely an anomaly within engineering. They have a unique culture, and a unique way of going about business, but there are a multitude of other engineering firms that have the problems I mentioned. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for an engineer to out earn an accountant by any means, even without an MBA, but I’d still maintain that unless you are an extremely bright engineer, it’ll be hard to move up in management, work at a very selective, high-paying company like google, or be one of those highly, highly skilled technical people that the firm pays big bucks to keep their hands on vs a decently smart accountant who passes the CPA and can get into the Big 4 or other large national (which is A LOT easier than getting into google).</p>

<p>EDIT: btw, here is a post on the first page of the engineering majors. Check out post number 7. Even he, a mech E student talks about how being a technical engineer (EVEN AT TOP FIRMS AS I SAID) can lead to a stagnant salary DESPITE grad school. Others have agreed with him, so it’s NOT just one guy either:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/819228-computer-engineering-lucrative-career.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/819228-computer-engineering-lucrative-career.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>creamgethamoney, arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. You don’t get it. Back up some of your claims with facts not propaganda. You know nothing about engineering yet you claim unless you are “an extremely bright engineer” it will be hard to move into management. You have no experience to go by so how do you know this? You don’t. I don’t care about wahat some engineering student is saying on a thread either. He probably knows as much about it as you do, absolutely nothing. I have an engineering degree and I can tell you that there are plenty of management opportunities. A lot of your statements are overly generalized and they reflect your lack of knowledge about engineering. How many engineering positions have you had? How many engineering companies have you worked for? Are you a manager? Do you even have work experience? Because by the sounds of it you are an expert when it comes to moving up the corporate ladder.</p>

<p>You claim that “there are a multitude of other engineering firms that have the problems I mentioned.” Once agian, you know this how? There are literally thousands of engineering companies that offer room for advancement in design, project management, sales, contracts, manufacturing, etc…</p>

<p>Apparently, this forum is where people can pretend to be experts on subjects they know nothing about. creamgethmoney, I ask you to show me that you have legitimate engineering work experience to back up all of your claims about the profession, If you can’t do so, you should stop misleading people trying to get something out of this forum.</p>

<p>Taxguy, you believe that there are “more opportunities and more creative lucrative positions” with those that have an accounting background yet what facts support this besides your biased opinion? You are clearly an accountant so you obviously would like to think this but a statement like this is ridiculous and is proof that you are totally biased toward your profession. It’s like you are trying to justify to yourself that your profession is better. I’m guessing you have never worked in engineering yet you also seem to know that accounting offers better opportunities.</p>

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<p>ME76 admittedly, I am basing my statements on my personal experience. I also noted that it is my opinion. I have not made statements of fact but of opinions based on my personal experience. You can take it for what it’s worth.</p>

<p>I also don’t think that accounting is necessarily a better track than that of engineering. It is,however, at least comparable and could be quite lucrative.</p>

<p>However, based on some research , the top 10% of engineers, other than Petroleum Engineers, make 120K. <a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm[/url]”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>HOWEVER, the top salaries for accountants can range from $300,000 to over $3,000,000. See <a href=“Web Page Under Construction”>Web Page Under Construction;

<p>Is this enough prooof.</p>

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<p>lol dude, I can use all of your “arguments” right back at you. YOU too don’t “get it” and frankly anything I say is falling on deaf ears, which is why this is my last response to you. </p>

<p>YOU haven’t backed up any of your “arguments” either. I’ve done a search on you, and half of your posts are just attacking people the minute they don’t tell you that engineering is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I gave you a damn thread that specifically stated that technical engineering EVEN AT TOP COMPANIES is a decent-paying job but will leave you with a stagnant salary after a while. If you’re not going to believe what the vast majority of people are saying, then that’s your own problem. Why the hell should someone trust you over anyone else in this forum, especially when you’ve provided NO evidence yourself yet keep demanding it. The only “evidence” to backup your “arguments” are that you have worked in engineering and claiming that everyone who doesn’t believe/witness what you do is an idiot that knows nothing and has zero qualifications. </p>

<p>If there are so many management opportunities for engineers, THEN AGAIN WHY ARE SO MANY OF THE TOP MBAs FILLED WITH ENGINEERS LOOKING FOR A CAREER CHANGE/FURTHER THERE SKILLS. And again, some engineers if they are very smart can get into management just through their engineering education, but this depends GREATLY on the firm and what they want. It’s certainly more doable in engineering vs other professions to not need an MBA, but you can’t make blanket statements like that because it’s not true in MANY cases.</p>

<p>If you are going to use your anecdotal experiences to virtually claim that it is so easy to become an engineering manager, then I’m going to use my own anecdotal experiences which is research on the career and talking to professionals in the field to say that many engineers will not become managers. It’s not the usual career path, and while it isn’t a rarity to see them become some type of manager, I guarantee that you won’t see majority of engineers become managers without significant business experience/demonstrated business skills, which doesn’t necessarily require an MBA (although MBAs help). Furthermore, it isn’t as easy as you think it is for engineers to do this. There are many people looking to do this, and only so many spots, so you need a bit of luck as well to make it. In fact, what both of us have shown is that if you are talented and work hard, you can thrive and make a lot of money in either field with a bit of luck, but I’d still maintain that it’s harder to become a manager in engineering than it is in accounting.</p>

<p>And quite frankly, given how you seem to lash out at everyone who doesn’t think engineering is the golden career, YOU are the one who seems to be overly biased in his/her argument. The minute someone disagrees with you, you start going on some rant about them spewing useless rhetoric and basically bragging about how you are so experienced as an engineer and thus are king of the world. The fact that you are so defensive about your occupation makes it look like you have a chip on your shoulder and rationalizing your decision more than anyone here is. Btw, just as you keep asking me about my engineering background, can I ask you about your accounting background and how YOU know that it’s so much worse than engineering? </p>

<p>Go back to the engineering forum. No one here cares about engineering just as no one there cares about accounting. You do you, I’ll do me. I really don’t understand why you’re here in the first place. When we wise up and switch to engineering, we’ll consult you oh great one <em>rolls eyes</em></p>

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<p>I’ve searched you as well and you are just some kid running who runs his mouth about things you know nothing about. Do you even have a degree?</p>

<p>Listen, I have an engineering degree and I have work experience, something you don’t so don’t try to tell me about opportunities in the engineering field. As I said, I respect both degrees and I have absolutely nothing against accountants. Accounting is a great career. What I can’t tolerate is idiots like you spreading false information. You didn’t answer any of my questions. Are you an engineer? Do you have work experience? How do you know about engineering opportunities when you don’t have an engineering degree or experience. You are trying to attack me because I called you out and you have no legitimate rebuttle.</p>

<p>Finally, don’t turn this around. I never said engineering is better than accounting. I repeat, I never said this. I’m simply calling you out on your claims that engineering doesn’t offer opportunities. I called you out and your response (attacking me) is pathetic.</p>

<p>Taxguy, this is ridiculous, you cite bls for engineering salaries so cite bls for accounting salaries.</p>

<p>[Accountants</a> and Auditors](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos001.htm]Accountants”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos001.htm)</p>

<p>Hmm… I don’t see anything about 3 million dollar salaries here.</p>

<p>I’m done on this thread. Taxguy, I respect your opinion. Creamgethamoney, you have not addressed anything that I have said so I’m done wasting my time with you.</p>

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<p>me76 Your thread shows median salaries especially at the government. I cited in my thread, salaries for both median salaries and top 10% for both engineering and accounting. The accountants made a lot more for the top 10%. Does that mean that everyone will achieve this? No , it doesn’t</p>

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<p>I think the average person who graduates with a degree in engineering is probably a lot smarter than the average accounting major(yes, I’m an accounting major but I think I could hack it as an engineering major). The accounting vs engineering debate is only relevant for those who actually have a choice. If you strip out the idiots from the accounting statistics the figures might be different.</p>

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<p>accounting majors are smarter than engineering majors in different ways (ie: NOT majoring in engineering! LOL!)</p>

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<p>I cannot agree on the idea that engineering students are smarter than accounting students. How am I supposed to know if I am not good at engineering if I never take engineering classes? From the very beginning I knew that I wanted to be an accountant so why would I waste my time and money taking some classes other than accounting?</p>

<p>I like math and physics but I find that accounting is more interesting. I got As for my Calculus I and Calculus II because those were required classes. I will know if I am good at higher level math until I am taking those classes. I am not gonna take those classes because I am gonna waste my time and money.</p>

<p>In fact, I have a friend who graduated from a top engineering university in california with a 3.8 gpa but did not do well on her accounting classes. She even hired a private tutor. </p>

<p>I would say it depends.</p>

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The big 4 might have 10,000 total partners in the US. There are 1.3 million accountants. In order to even talk about the 90th percentile you have to look at the 130,000 accountants. Becoming a big 4 partner is statistically infinitesimal and totally irrelevant to the newly minted Accounting graduate.</p>

<p>Accounting:
10th: 34K
Median: 55K
90th percentile: 94K</p>

<p>Engineering (Mechanical, which is medium for engineering earnings):
10th: 45K
Median: 70K
90th: 105K</p>

<p>This is not to rain on anyone’s parade, this is data.</p>

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<p>Possible skew: there are many crap accounting jobs available, but no engineering jobs whatsoever with pay under $40k. So those engineering grads who are failures find work in other fields and don’t drag down the engineering salary avg…the key is to have a strong GPA.</p>

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<p>This thread is getting a bit confrontational. Lets agree that both accounting and engineering offer good career opportunities and drop the discussion.</p>

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<p>Keep discussing. Whistleblower does have a good point though.</p>

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<p>to honor dawgie’s request of keeping the discussion alive, here’s something that might stir up some debate:</p>

<p>overall, which profession then, accounting or engineering, is more sought after and respected by the general public? Does our society value engineers or accountants, if there could only be one winner? (leave the “both are important” argument alone for now)</p>

<p>just to make things interesting…</p>