<p>I guess I can see why schools like St. Louis University and such would offer such programs since it allows them to attract students they otherwise wouldn’t get. But I have two questions:</p>
<li><p>Why would top med schools like Northwestern, WashU, Baylor, etc. want to accept high schoolers when they have plenty of qualified, more mature college applicants who have proven academic success at a much higher level? Given a high schooler with a 3.95 GPA and a 1500 SAT and a college student with a 3.9 GPA and a 37 MCAT, I’d much rather take the latter because most high schoolers will never sniff that kind of a MCAT score. </p></li>
<li><p>Why do these programs allow students to apply out (and possibly to go another med school)? You would essentially lose your investment. </p></li>
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<p>I can see why guaranteeing yourself a spot in a med school would be attractive to a high school student, but I don’t see the attraction for the university.</p>
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<li><p>These schools are looking to train more well-rounded doctors. They want people to be able to explore their passions during undergrad so that they can in turn become better doctors. I wouldn't call WashU's program a BA/MD since they still require you to have a 3.8 GPA and a 36 MCAT, which you might as well try to go to Harvard Med if you have those stats. But the point of Rice/Baylor and HPME is to allow students flexibility in their undergrad education so that people can pursue whatever field of study they want before going to medical school. It allows people to pursue activities and majors that most wouldn't have looked at otherwise had they taken the regular premed path (major in Bio and only do medically related activities). I know all premeds don't do that, but a majority of them do.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm not sure about Rice/Baylor or WashU, but Northwestern said that you lose your guarunteed spot in the Medical School if you apply out to other medical schools. You can still apply to their MD program, but you won't have a guarunteed spot.</p></li>
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<p>Thanks for your reply eternity.</p>
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<li><p>Much of your explanation seem to be benefits for the students rather than the med schools. It gives the students more flexibility in their classes and less pressure. But if med schools want diversity (ie non-science majors) there are plenty to choose from in the college applicant pool. After all, there are 40,000+ applicants for 17,000 spots. With the attrition rate in premed so high (most students who start premed decide to pursue another career), I don't see why med school would take chances on high school students when there are plenty of college applicants who have proven their dedication to medicine.</p></li>
<li><p>Obviously, some schools don't let you apply out, but many do. I don't see the logic behind attracting top HS students and then letting them go after 4 years. I think it would be more than fair for schools to demand that the HS student commit to their med school in exchange for a guaranteed acceptance.</p></li>
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<p>For number 2, the reason some schools let you apply out is that they want to attract high-achieving students to the undergraduate institution in order to improve the school's performance. The med school will be able to attract high-achieving students regardless (like you said, they have plenty of people to pick from), but in many cases when med schools are affiliated with a university (that includes an undergrad college), they will be hitched to such an effort at reputation-building. This applies less to the schools like Rice, NW, and Brown, but even for those schools, it looks nice when they win over top students who might have attended top universities like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc. instead.</p>
<p>I'm not really sure if medical schools like NU, Baylor, and Brown have any reason other than trying to make better doctors by letting them have an enriched undergraduate experience that will carry over to their careers. Medical schools are out there to train doctors that will lead the future of healthcare. By getting "better" students who went through the regular premed path, I don't see them having a huge benefit either. Maybe their rank might move up one or two spots on US News, but some medical schools, I know Northwestern in particular, don't really care about the rankings. HPME, PLME, and Rice/Baylor also seek students who have already proven their dedication to medicine and are 100% that it is the career they want to pursue. You have to also show that you have tested your dedication. This is why there are very very few people that drop out of these programs, because the vast majority are absolutely certain that medicine is the right career for them.</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Why would schools like Northwestern, WashU, and Baylor offer combined medical programs? What do the med schools have to gain from offering these programs?</p>
<p>I think all medical schools (including the ones stated above) attempt to retain some 'residential intellectual resource/talent' within their own state. This is a wise investment in point of view of retaining and in future providing quality healthcare to patients in their own state.</p>
<p>Otherwise, the best and the brightest from each state would all head NorthEast toward the Ivys. Most students that graduate out of Ivys, will likely stay and provide the benefit of their training to residents in the Northeastern states.</p>
<p>By offering BS/MD programs, schools like Northwestern, WashU, and Baylor are trying to retain some of their state's best talent within their own state.</p>
<p>It's a smart move in terms preventing 'eastward braindrain'.</p>
<p>One other point - I am pretty sure that med schools get some state $$$ for each state student they accept in their BS/MD programs.</p>
<p>After all, these moneys are contributed from the pool of state taxes which are paid by state residents. This is likely why in programs like Baylor's BS/MD track, 50% seats are reserved for state residents.</p>
<p>These numbers are higher in other combined degree programs.</p>
<p>NCG: It's entirely a benefit to the undergraduate program. Think about it: otherwise why not offer to let them go someplace else? Northwestern could still guarantee a four-year-later medical school admission and let you do your undergraduate work at Penn. (I'd be fascinated to see what concessions Rice gave to Baylor in exchange for those spots.)</p>
<p>They force you to stay in their undergraduate school as a political favor to that arm of their university. They let you apply out afterwards because frankly they're not sure if they want you around. It's not for the medical school -- it's the bait that you use to lure overqualified undergraduates to the hook.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you might as well try to go to Harvard Med if you have those stats
[/quote]
Please. That's barely at Harvard's median, and it's significantly below Wash U's median. Those numbers would significantly put you in the bottom half of their class. Not to mention that it says nothing about research or extracurriculars. You walk around with a 3.8, 36 thinking you've earned yourself a spot wherever you want, you're going to be in for a sorry surprise.</p>
<p>I realize that BDM. 3.8 and 36 is the bare minimum for the guaruntee, so you will have to exceed that. I know that a 3.8 and a 36 don't really guaruntee you much in med school admissions, but what I really meant is that if you can become a competative applicant at other top medical schools, like Harvard, JHU, Duke, etc., with those stats.</p>
<p>Certainly numbers like that won't keep you out. But they're not going to do you any favors, either.</p>
<p>I think the attraction for Northwestern, WashU, Baylor, etc. to use these programs is to compete with the other very top med schools (even if they're already counted as one of them) such as Harvard, JHU med schools. They're taking a bet that these high schoolers in 4 years would be the cream of the crop type of medical school applicants and making it easier to get into their med school so that the student can't resist a spot. </p>
<p>It's also that risk that they're taking that's dangerous, so perhaps that's why WUSTL has high requirements for their Med Scholars and doesn't actually "guarantee" anything.</p>
<p>Nah. If you were competing for superstars, you'd take them right after their sophomore years at whatever college they were at -- before the MCAT.</p>
<p>A BS/MD track is the bait that a university can use to trap overqualified undergraduates in its undergraduate program. The med school itself will take them, but it's not out of any four-year-projectable interest.</p>
<p>What surprised me most was the % of in-state students accepted in these BA/MD programs, which leads me to believe that there must be some additional funds these med schools procure from the State.</p>
<p>The Undergrad schools get kids with stellar stats (who would otherwise go to Ivys/or equivalent) and the med school probably gets more state funds toward research? It's a win-win situation for all.</p>
<p>Again, though, the question is: why admit them as undergrads? Why not wait four years and pick kids who are in-state AND excellent candidates rather than gambling on them four years in advance?</p>
<p>Unless the program offers a disproportionate (relative to the eventual medical school) percentage of in-state students, I think that's probably a continuation of a trend they could well afford to start four years down the line.</p>
<p>Yes. I agree that it's a clear hook to get 'cream of the crop' for the Undergrad schools.</p>
<p>I guess that is a plausible explanation. However, attracting 14 top students for your undergrad program seems to make less of an impact than compromising 14 spots in your MD program since med school classes are much much smaller than undergrad classes.</p>
<p>I wouldn't say the med school is compromising anything. ba/md students tend to do just as well (and in the case of my program, better) than traditional students in the med schools.</p>
<p>Thats true. One of my interviews was with the director of HPME and she told me that HPME students end up doing just as well as the other med students.</p>
<p>I think the best part of Bach/MD programs is that the students in this program tend to collaborate and strengthen each other's learning. They are not vying for those "few available spots" any more. Therefore, their environment is conducive to a symbiotic, synergistic, collaborative one.</p>
<p>This enhances chances of study groups being formed, more inter-student mentoring, more nurturing environment leading to far less negative stress or student burn-out.</p>
<p>One's learning can be exponential if one has the most suitable, nurturing environment without the many negatives of cut-throat competition. </p>
<p>So, I am not surprised that these students do pretty well.</p>