What is the point of going to a good engineering school?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>I'm currently supposed to be going to the Georgia Institute of Technology this upcoming August under Biomedical Engineering, and yet after reading several topics in CC, I've come to doubt myself as to WHY exactly I'm going so far from home to study (I live in CA), when it apparently "doesn't matter."</p>

<p>Now, I might switch majors to EE, MechE, or anything else, so let's put that argument aside. I've seen posts about how it doesn't matter what school you go to for undergrad, so why do people from all over the world and nation waste so much time and money to go to schools like MIT, Berkeley, GT, UMich, UIUC, etc. for the engineering education?</p>

<p>I really want to know. I had the opportunity to go to UC Davis and UCI, but I didn't want to because they weren't as good as GT in engineering, and I really want to do engineering. So I declined those two schools, and accepted GT's admission. What are the benefits for someone like me, who is going to a top engineering school? I hear after a few years of work experience, it doesn't even matter where you went for college. The only valuable arguments I've seen is that going to a top school puts you around smart people in general, and therefore increases your personal intellect, and that it slightly increases your chances of finding your first job.</p>

<p>I don't want to go to college knowing that I'm essentially "wasting my time" or whatever because I was pretty satisfied with where I was going before I started reading a bunch of topics here. I've heard things like "Engineering is the worst major to study at a top school." Is there truly any benefit to going to these schools?</p>

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WHY exactly I'm going so far from home to study (I live in CA), when it apparently "doesn't matter."

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<p>There is a lot of truth to the notion that if all you want is a regular engineering job, then it probably doesn't matter that much where you go. </p>

<p>However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that it doesn't matter at all. Allow me to enumerate some of the reasons why it might matter, and strongly so:</p>

<ul>
<li>A top engineering school can aid you greatly in getting into a top engineering graduate program. This is particularly so for the top private graduate engineering programs that seem to provide extremely heavy - and in some cases, exclusive - admissions preference to their own undergrads. For example, it's a well-known saying that by far the easiest way to get into MIT for grad school is to go there for undergrad and just stay there, and believe me, there are a lot of former MIT undergrads in the MIT graduate programs.<br></li>
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<p>Certain top engineering schools - especially Stanford, but also MIT, Berkeley and others - give you premier access to startup opportunities when they're still small, and when a startup is still small is *precisely when you want to join. For example, you're not going to get rich if you join Google now, but if you had joined in 1998 when they had just launched and then stayed with them through the IPO, you'd be a millionaire many times over. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that startups don't really recruit in any formal sense. They can't. They don't have the capability. When you're just 2 guys in a basement somewhere - as Google was in 1998 - you don't have the resources to do a formal hiring search. So you just end up hiring a bunch of your friends. That's precisely what Google and most other startups do: most of Google's initial team were old Stanford buddies of Sergey and Larry. Hence, going to a top engineering school that has a strong entrepreneurial culture will give you access through social networks to numerous startup opportunities.</p>

<p>*Going to a top engineering school can give you access to desirable non-engineering careers. As I have noted in other threads, a lot of MIT and Stanford engineering students won't take engineering jobs, instead heading off to top consulting and finance firms. Heck, one guy that I know who is a top MIT engineering student has turned down all his engineering offers and engineering grad school acceptances to work for an elite venture capital firm. It's not so easy to do that if you come from, say, UCDavis. </p>

<p>Then there is the issue of attrition and flexibility. The truth is, over half of all incoming engineering students will not actually complete engineering degrees but will instead switch majors to something else. While some of them will switch because they genuinely find something else that they are more passionate about, many others will switch because they find that engineering is simply too hard. If you go to Stanford and then find that you don't actually like engineering or that it's too hard, you can switch majors to something easier and know that you are still going to get a degree with the highly marketable Stanford brand name. Similarly, at MIT, you can always switch to (heh heh) management at the Sloan School, which while certainly not *easy, is certainly easier than most MIT engineering majors, yet is still a highly marketable degree. {MIT Sloan students actually get higher starting salaries than the students from most MIT engineering majors, making the Sloan School one of the most beneficial features of MIT. }</p>

<p>But to summarize, I agree that if you don't care about any of that stuff and you just want a regular engineering job and you're sure that you're not going to switch majors, then the caliber of the school probably doesn't matter very much.</p>

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<p>I think it does matter, especially since many students are unsure of what you want to do, getting an engineering degree from the great schools is an important achievement in your life that you will cherish everytime you think about your college experience(because you survived a tough curriculum against some of the best science/math students of your generation), getting one from a not-so-good school will limit your options to purely engineering jobs in the manufacturing industry. </p>

<p>Engineering degree from Stanford, MIT--> endless possibilities. </p>

<p>Engineering degree from Montana Tech--> still good career, but the Mckinsey/Lehman Brothers/Google/Microsoft will more than likely NOT give you an interview while you are in school.</p>

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<p>For some reason, I think he should major in economics and minor in science if he wanted to go into banking or obtain those "endless possibilities" venture capitalist jobs.</p>

<p>If you want a regular engineering job, as long as you came from a school with a great overall reputation, (as mentioned places like UC Davis, or UCI) it would barely matter. But there are CEOs from schools like these, e.g. Agilent, Bechtel after a quick search.</p>

<p>And about the prospects of joining a successful startup. They are in general very rare, and successful ones are even rarer. And lets say you don't study something like solar fuel cells and are not involved the electronics industry, start-ups are basically non-existent. When was the last time you heard about a group of environmental engineers beginning a "start-up" firm immediately after graduation? The startup argument might be overplayed here.</p>

<p>Btw. GTech is well respected, but is not the engineering powerhouse (MIT/Cal level) implied in OP's tone.</p>

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<p>If he wanted to obtain those endless possibilities of VC jobs he certainly wouldn't go to UCD or UCI.</p>

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<p>Those UCs probably has about as much possibility of getting to those jobs as GTech.</p>

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<p>I doubt it. But I suppose proximity would means something for the UCs.</p>

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<p>I agree, if you just want a regular engineering job, the school you went to really doesn't matter at all. What matters a lot more is when you compare having just a B.S. to having a M.S. I went to UC Berkeley, for example, and the company I work for could care less that I got my B.S. there. All they care about is that I am attempting to get a M.S. now. All the candidates we bring in are M.S. graduates. Even though I graduated from a top university, and have some work experience, I still feel like I am viewed as inferior to these candidates. I'm sure it's not like this everywhere, but from what I've seen, having an M.S. is the key to getting that initial interview. Having an M.S. from a bad school >> having a B.S. from a top school. A M.S. from a top school, that's just gravy =)</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the replies, everyone, and especially sakky for the detailed response.</p>

<p>Does it matter which school you go to if you're looking at the national scheme or international scheme? I would assume it does. For example, I'm not sure I want to stay and work in Georgia, and I may return to California, or I may move to another state. Would my GT degree hold some merit because of the prestige or whatever? Also, my family MIGHT in the future move to another country if the situation sees fit.</p>

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<p>In the long run, no, your school doesn't matter--your experience and past jobs do.</p>

<p>However, for you to get that nice first job, a top school with name recognition will attract the top recruiters and can give you a leg up in the selection process. </p>

<p>As for the Gtech issue, I'm not a recruiter but I feel that Gtech has national appeal and therefore would stand out on most resumes (assuming you aren't failing hard).</p>

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<p>Nationally, GT has much better appeal than UCD or UCI. I suspect that even within California GT is at least equal to UCD/UCI.</p>

<p>Of course, I don't think school reputation is worth all that much.</p>

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<p>hey guys! just wondering... what is your guys opinion of UCSB engineering, and how would job opportunities after getting an engineering degree from UCSB pan out?</p>

<p>thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>Cal Poly is better. UCSB is alright though.</p>

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<p>Start your own thread beatlesguy1234. I'm sure the OP doesn't appreciate you hijacking his. Neither do I.</p>

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<p>I feel like GT has better national recognition than UC Davis or UCI, but once you get out of the country I really doubt it would matter. Having a degree from HYPS or even UCLA would probably stand up better abroad (though it depends where abroad I suppose). That said, by the time you move out of the country (if you do) you should have experience so all that will matter is that you graduated with a degree in engineering, hopefully having shown some ability with a good GPA or something. The jobs will count more than name recognition of your university.</p>

<p>Whether or not the name recognition in the states is worth the expense, I don't know. I know after paying two years to a private (basically equivalent to OOS) I wish I would have been in a state like washington or california so I could have used in-state tuition. I guess I could very well have chosen otherwise though, and I do like the atmosphere in the smaller schools.</p>

<p>I think all you should take from the other threads about how you don't need to go to a prestigious college for engineering is just that - you don't. You also don't have to go to Harvard for an MBA, or yale for law, or hopkins for MD [admittedly I don't know the "top" school in these fields, just dropping names, but you get the idea], but people want to. Sometimes there are more options/connections with graduates from those school, perhaps it's the atmosphere and all the great students helps push you harder... I'd go just for the name recognition if nothing else. Paying out of state tuition at someplace like UCLA is the same as any of the private schools like MIT, Harvard, etc. If I were a good enough applicant, why not? I'm sure there are many other applicants with in-state universities not nearly as good high quality as CA, maybe they are just thinking the way I am thinking.</p>

<p>And don't worry, you don't be "wasting your time" at GT. Don't worry about what is "better" in ranks, worry about what fits you and where you'll be happy. Hopefully you picked GT because you liked it more than because you thought it was simply a better program, but even if you did go for the rank you can go with an open mind and probably still have a lot of fun. Some people on these boards are kind of crazy I think. Things probably didn't pan out like they thought it would and they are trying to help others not make the same mistake. The problems lie deeper than the schools. A school won't get you anywhere, you're the only one responsible for that.</p>

<p>Enjoy GT.</p>

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<p>Mr. Payne I hope you know my alma mater is UCSB. I think you are also underestimating the impact of the UCs on the west coast. I think California is the 5th in economic impact for a state in the world. If OP wants to have a job in California, the UCs would only help in the matter by providing internships, coops, etc in the area.. And from my professional experience, nobody will think you are "inferior", so to speak, if you graduate from UCD/UCI/UCSB/UCSD. GT will probably provide more opporunities on the east coast, I agree.</p>

<p>About UCSB versus CalPoly SLO, I think you're trying to compare a world reknown research institution to a hands-on technical school. But let's save that discussion for another thread.</p>

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<p>Keep the CalPoly/UCSB discussion elsewhere, please.</p>

<p>Thanks for the response JohnWillkins. I chose GT for two reasons - they have a very strong and upcoming biomedical engineering program and that has really interested me. Also, they are generally good at every engineering field, so in the case that I feel the need to switch majors, I can do so freely without worrying about prestige or whatever. I hope my time at GT is well spent.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Mr. Payne I hope you know my alma mater is UCSB. I think you are also underestimating the impact of the UCs on the west coast. I think California is the 5th in economic impact for a state in the world. If OP wants to have a job in California, the UCs would only help in the matter by providing internships, coops, etc in the area.. And from my professional experience, nobody will think you are "inferior", so to speak, if you graduate from UCD/UCI/UCSB/UCSD. GT will probably provide more opporunities on the east coast, I agree.

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My point on GT being on par with UCD & UCI within CA is something I truly believe. UCI/UCD certainly have superior placement upon college graduation within CA, just because recruitment is primarily CA companies/divisions. However, looking beyond initial placement, I suspect GT is easily the equal of UCI/UCD within California.</p>

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<p>It's easier to get a job, internships, etc. from a well known school then an unknown one.</p>

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And about the prospects of joining a successful startup. They are in general very rare, and successful ones are even rarer

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<p>First off, I never said anything about joining successful startups, at least not at the first crack. No doubt, most startups are unsuccessful. But so what? Like I've said in other threads, if you join a startup and it fails, then you can just join another one. If that fails too, you just join another one. So eventually you will either find one that is successful, or you will end up working for a big company. </p>

<p>One key advantage of startup firms is that they tend to provide you with very strong opportunities for career development, provided that you are aggressive and ambitious. Startups have few rules and processes, which means that you can quickly rise to a position of great responsibility and you can see how the entire company works. Contrast that with working for a big company that, with the exception of a few, the opportunities for promotion are quite limited and you may easily find yourself spending more time dealing with the process (i.e. in endless meetings) than in actually doing useful work. </p>

<p>Now, of course, I agree that a startup environment requires a certain ambitious personality, and many people just don't have that personality. I agree that if you just want a relatively safe and highly structured work environment, then you probably shouldn't work at a startup. So it all comes down to what you want to do. </p>

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And lets say you don't study something like solar fuel cells and are not involved the electronics industry, start-ups are basically non-existent. When was the last time you heard about a group of environmental engineers beginning a "start-up" firm immediately after graduation? The startup argument might be overplayed here.

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<p>Actually, startups aren't generated only from guys who have just graduated. I believe I read somewhere how the average startup founder is in his late 30's. You don't have to necessarily know the founders in order to get your foot in the door. You just have to know somebody in the company who can get you in the door. Certain schools are far better connected into the startup world than are others. </p>

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And lets say you don't study something like solar fuel cells and are not involved the electronics industry, start-ups are basically non-existent. When was the last time you heard about a group of environmental engineers beginning a "start-up" firm immediately after graduation?

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<p>I would argue that startups are quite prolific in most engineering fields. </p>

<p>Besides, the presumption is that you are actually going to be working in a field that is directly related to what it is that you are majoring in, an assumption that I have been combating here on CC. The fact is, plenty of people don't actually end up working in a field that is directly related to their major. For example, I was recently talking to an MIT Mechanical Engineering grad who took a job at a Web 2.0 startup. What does that have to do with mechanical engineering? Probably nothing. He got that opportunity simply because he was at MIT, and hence happened to have the available social connections (I think it was one of his roommates who introduced him to the right people). </p>

<p>Look, I'll reiterate, not everybody enjoys the startup lifestyle, and if you're not one of them, then this discussion clearly does not apply to you. But if you are one of those people, then you should go to where heavy startup activity occurs.</p>