<p>Yes, one can argue that Berkeley’s graduate education (ranking-wise that is) is better than Yale’s and I agree with that. However, this doesn’t make Berkeley more famous than Yale. Believe it or not, there are only very few people in the world who care about such rankings.</p>
<p>As far partnerships, what does university prestige have to do with it? Partnerships are not established based on a university’s reputation. Other factors are deciding and neither your or I will know the details of these factors, unless you speak with someone high up at the universities you mentioned who was responsible for establishing those partnerships.
That’s why your arguments don’t make much sense.</p>
<p>Same goes for your BP example. Maybe Berkeley was conducting research related to the businesses’ goals? Maybe Berkeley’s Engineering/Science program is strong in general? Etc, there could be 1000 reasons.</p>
<p>You could bring up all of Yale’s partnerships, donations and investors to argue the other way round. By bringing up such arguments you haven’t proved anything.</p>
<p>
Nobody ever said anything different, but it’s brand name internationally is not as strong as Yale’s, that’s what this discussion was about, wasn’t it?</p>
<p>What does a universities brand name depend on? Definitely not on rankings, donations, or partnerships, because no one cares about that. One big factor for Yale’s fame is certainly that it has produced several presidents and vice presidents and thus is featured more often in popular media. Berkeley cannot claim such a thing.</p>
<p>PS: I’m a UC Berkeley student. I’m not trying to defend Yale ;)</p>
<p>The fallacy of all of your arguments lies within this extreme minority view. </p>
<p>Very few people (in academia or otherwise) would agree with you that Cal is THE MOST prestigious school after Harvard, i.e. better than Yale, Princeton, Stanford or MIT (not to mention the other Ivies, Chicago, etc.)</p>
<p>How can a university that has an undergrad program consistently ranked outside of the Top 20 be considered the most prestigious university in the world after Harvard? Particularly when you have universities (whether they have a full complement of grad programs or not) – which enjoy highly ranked programs nonetheless across the board in the programs that they do offer – e.g. Princeton. </p>
<p>Cal can not even claim to be the best university in the Bay Area – Stanford is simply better. How can you claim that Cal is the most prestigious university in the country after Harvard, when it can’t even make that claim in its own backyard?</p>
<p>The problem with you, the prestige, is that you twist stories. When did I ever say that Berkeley is more prestigious than Yale? When? </p>
<p>I said Berkeley is just as prestigious as Yale, in general. Some people think Yale is more prestigious than Berkeley. But some think otherwise. I do. My colleagues do too. The people in the tech industry do too. A lot of people do. That’s why I’m putting them on the same bracket. That means they are peers when it comes to prestige race. I cannot accept that Yale is more prestigious than Yale. You can’t do the same for otherwise. That’s why they’re peers because they are neck-and-neck. I cannot make the same argument against Harvard or Oxford. But I can make a strong argument against Yale. </p>
<p>
Now, let me throw back the question to you: How can a university with so-so science and engineering programs be considered the most prestigious university in the world after Harvard? </p>
<p>It has invested heavily on those areas, yet it didn’t succeed. If Yale is indeed that famous as you claimed it is, how come it’s still so-so in areas that it has invested with hundreds of millions of dollars?</p>
<p>Harvard is generally considered the best university in the world, and yet is rather weak in the technical fields you mention (engineering etc), have you considered that - while clearly technical programs are the center of your universe - the rest of the world doesn’t care about them anymore than the other programs a university offers?</p>
<p>Clearly Berkeley wins in the technosphere vs Yale an many other schools - perhaps harvard as well - but that does little to prove it is a better school overall.</p>
<p>This discussion is about the top MBA schools, NOT top undergrad school. Can we all agree that YSOM is on par with Haas? Undergrad branding doesn’t have much to do with graduate school ranking. By this argument Notre Dame, Vandy would be ranked above Texas.</p>
<p>That’s an interesting point. But if you have a school which ranks highly in both undergrad rankings and the major professional grad school rankings (and by “highly” I mean Top 5-ish across the board), its fair to say that its better than a school with weak undergrad rankings (and by “weak” I mean outside the Top 20) and decent professional grad school rankings (and by “decent” I mean not a single major professional program ranked in the Top 5, and only one in the Top 10).</p>
<p>storch, i asked the prestige to show me when did I say Berkeley is more prestigious than Yale and he didn’t answer back. I know why he didn’t answer me. It’s because I never said such claim. </p>
<p>Again, Berkeley and Yale are neck-and-neck in prestige across the globe. One is neither superior than the other, in general. I have data to support my claim. The prestige and Thomas, on the other hand, all relied on their personal opinions. There goes the difference. </p>
<p>facts/data vs opinions.</p>
<p>And you cannot use Harvard to support your assertion. Harvard has a top-rated science program that’s better than most schools including MIT’s and Berkeley’s. Harvard has also a specialized engineering programs and it has access to MIT, which many scholars know of t=such arrangements. But the heavier reason is that Yale is not Harvard and there will only be one Harvard.</p>
<p>The problem now, the prestige, is that you don’t have data to support your claim. </p>
<p>I also have worked in Asia, Europe and have attended undergrad in England, postgrad course in California, London and the Philippines. I have lived in 4 countries and been to 6 out of the 7 continents around the world. Your experience isn’t better than mine. Therefore, we have to refer to reliable sources. Neither of our opinions would matter now.</p>
<p>if Cal is such a superior academic institution, particularly within the “academic community”, then how can you explain the fact that HYPSM all have higher peer assessment rankings vs. Cal?</p>
<p>According to you, it should be Harvard no. 1 and then Cal no. 2.</p>
<p>RML, you do not have data to support your claim either. Like I said before, none of your arguments made sense when arguing for prestige. How do you define prestige anyway?</p>
<ol>
<li>If you define prestige “has more top graduate programs”, then yes, Berkeley wins. This seems to be what you are doing, but no one else knows about this definition ;)</li>
<li>If you define prestige as “more people know about the school and its reputation” then Yale wins.</li>
</ol>
<p>For 1. We agree that Berkeley wins.
For 2. You cannot present facts, because, as far as I know, there are none. We have to rely on our experience here and let me tell you, you are in the minority view if you think that Berkeley is overall as famous/respected as Yale is. Though I cannot prove you wrong.</p>
<p>Both Berkeley and Yale are popular and highly respected. </p>
<p>How they got there has a multitude of ways. Berkeley through strong departments across the board. Yale through strong undergrad and law school. </p>
<p>Now, the issue is - is Yale SOM a better business school than Haas?</p>
<p>The Prestige said, yes. His argument is that, because Yale is a prestigious school, then Yale SOM must therefore be a better business school. Isn’t that a distorted argument?</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying RML, many people do not realize that berkeley has a stronger science, engineering, or rather technical accomplishments than many prestigious schools. For those that are very keen to rank publishing, the_prestige, are usually unaware that non-ivy league schools are just as competitive academically or sometimes superior to ivy league programs. </p>
<p>It doesn’t make sense to compare both of these schools that are essentially in the same tier because to be honest you wouldn’t get less from either schools and I am sure of that. Brand Names do matter for some people (those that are less knowledgeable), but academically you will get a good education from either schools. </p>
<p>PS the_prestige i’ve seen your other posts and you have a strong bias with ivy league schools and even twist words to get your way.</p>
<p>i have made strong cases on behalf of a wide range of non-Ivy schools, including Stanford, Caltech, MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, INSEAD, IMD, LBS, LSE, etc. (and in many cases have made arguments on behalf of these schools over and above Ivy schools).</p>
<p>first of all, i’ll happily put up my knowledge against yours. bring it.</p>
<p>next, who said that you won’t get a good education at some of these schools. not me. who seems to be twisting words now? i challenge you to find a post where I have ever made the claim that you won’t get anything less than a solid education at Cal. i’ll be waiting anxiously.</p>
<p>finally, i find it ironic indeed that you are accusing others of having biases without knowing all of the facts.</p>
<p><quote> first of all, i’ll happily put up my knowledge against yours. bring it. </quote></p>
<p>LOL. I meant “less knowlegeable” as the average joe that really doesn’t care or know about educational institutions least brand names. That wasn’t suppose to be directed toward you personally. </p>
<p><quote> next, who said that you won’t get a good education at some of these schools. not me. who seems to be twisting words now? i challenge you to find a post where I have ever made the claim that you won’t get anything less than a solid education at Cal. </quote></p>
<p>Well the point is that both stanford and haas will give you a solid education and trying to rank one above the other is a fruitless endeavor - this is not a black and white situation.</p>
<p><quote>finally, i find it ironic indeed that you are accusing others of having biases without knowing all of the facts. </quote></p>
<p>Well, that’s definitely your choice to disagree, but imho you do.</p>