For the record I would absolutely recommend a student choose Penn over both Harvard and Princeton. Neither particularly appealed to me and I can’t see a good reason to matriculate at either over Penn. But to each her own, I suppose
Lol, to be technical, Columbia and Cornell CAN say that Penn is the only Ivy league school in Pennsylvania!
@bjkmom "@sillyface , I think the reason the thread started the way it did was because people were pretty sure that the OP was asking people to write his “Why UPenn?” essay for him.
They chose not to make it as easy as starting a thread on the subject."
I thought that the snarky comments were just jealous posters trying to say something negative about Penn.
Why else say that what makes Penn better than other programs is that Penn is, “in a really bad neighborhood” or that it is a “Backup school for HYP rejects?”, a “lower ivy” a "State school?"That seems like jealous posters with low self-esteem, trying to bring Penn down to try to feel better about themselves.
Additionally, their comments are not accurate. I have walked all over the area within a few blocks of the Penn campus and have never felt unsafe. Also, there are many students at Penn who would be at HYP, if they wanted to be there, but preferred Penn. For example, more than half of Penn’s class applied ED. They had not been rejected by anyone. Penn is not a state school (although I don’t think being a state school is a bad thing at all). What is a Lower Ivy other than another weak attempt at a put down.
These people with critical things to say are coming to the Penn Forum to distract from the conversation. They do not want students that are applying to their school to find out about the amazing opportunities that Penn offers, because they know that if the students have the facts, their school will be losing some great applicants. That is really all there is to it.
I remember visiting Penn and Princeton with my oldest son in his junior year. While he enjoyed Princeton, he definitely liked Penn better, and that was because of the people he met and the general energy of the Penn campus. We had a couple of wonderfully nice friends at Princeton who were gracious hosts, and we met some really neat people at PEF (Princeton Evangelical Fellowship), but when he got to fall of senior year, he was all ready to apply to Penn ED until I reminded him that we needed lots of money and I wouldn’t allow it. He ended up applying to Princeton SCEA. He got into both schools and a number of other schools. He didn’t revisit Penn because they didn’t offer to pay, but by that time, he had really decided that he wanted a STEM school. Princeton ended up in third place (and Penn maybe a close 4th, except that their financial aid package wasn’t near as generous at Princeton, and that colored it for us), and two STEM schools were 1st and 2nd.
Penn has changed their f. aid policy, I think, since then, and no longer has loans in the package (at least for our income, but I’ll see when my middle son gets his package).
Long winded way of saying that the social, personable vibe of Penn was a real selling point to my oldest son, and if finances were equal, he would have chosen Penn over Princeton (if he hadn’t decided to attend a STEM school).
No, most of the early comments were lighthearted replies from adults who have been here forever. They have no bone to pick with UPenn. Their issue is with doing someone else’s homework.
@rebeccar I had hoped no one would notice!
@bjkmom i can see why people would think that but it’s too late for him to submit an application anyway for this cycle…either way i just thought it was funny
Also just adding my two cents, id choose penn over harvard/princeton/hogwarrs/etc any day, it’s why i applied early decision
Just to clarify what I said earlier. I never said that there is no reason for someone to choose Penn over Harvard, Princeton or that it would be a bad choice to do so, or that it doesn’t happen at all. However, realistically looking at it for a high school senior it is going to be very tough to do so, due to perception . Hopefully it does happen more frequently nowadays, after all its been a few years since i was in high school. Knowing what I know now I would choose Penn over Princeton (still not sure of i could reject the Harvard brand tho) but back when I was a senior in hs it was a different story. I turned down Yale for Penn due to Penn s better engineering program and the better vibe I got from Penn but given my perception at that point I would have chosen Harvard or Princeton if I had gotten in.
Also for location, I do think Harvard is best for someone interested in an urban setting and Princeton for someone into a more suburban, quiet setting. I do think Penn is a close second after Harvard, but I guess that is because i really like Boston. Philly is great tho too. i have had a great time in Philly.
Basically, only pick Penn if you care about:
- Access to a major city
- Warmer weather
- A social experience that means you will actually enjoy your four years
- Better paying jobs when you are done
If none of those four things interest you, do not come to Penn. lol
Funny-neither of my older sons was at all interested in applying to Harvard or Yale (I confess I had some influence in that decision). In my narrow view, Penn and Princeton are the only two Ivies that I thought would be decent fits for either son. Briefly looked at Cornell for second son, but access is so limited. Being in a large city with easy transportation to the nearby airport has been a big deal since we live across the country.
@sbjdorlo Do you know if there is a similar Christian outreach organization at Penn like the one you mentioned at Princeton (Princeton Evangelical Fellowship)? If so, did you get the same vibe from students at Penn? Also, I have heard the Princeton is likely the most conservative ivy, but what is your/your son’s experience as far as Penn goes in that regard? As a presumably Christian student does he feel like he fits in?
It’s the only ivy that not too long ago had a close to 50% accept rate.
@8bagels ummm if by not too long ago you mean the 1970s then yeah. Also it is far from the only one. Anyway though what does the acceptance rate of Penn 45+ years ago have to do with what makes the school stand out now? I am curious to find out.
@northstarfx I am not sure which specific Christian groups exist on campus but one of my closest friends at Penn was part of a Christian organization there and she loved it. They went to church together and participated in bible study on Sunday evenings. The Catholic student group is also very active on campus. And an interfaith coalition exists to promote religious life on campus and to secure funding and increase representation of religious students. Religious life is thriving at Penn and in Philadelphia in general.
In terms of “conservative” ivies, all of the ivies are going to be somewhat left leaning. Penn, Princeton Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth probably sit in similar places on the political spectrum while Columbia and Brown area bit more to the left (but that’s probably a major overgeneralization to say the least). That being said, they’re all politically active places with mostly left leaning students and professors. Conservative voices are loud and proud on every one of these campuses though. The ivies have educated some of the most consequential conservative thinkers and leaders in the history of the US ranging from moderates like Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney to the more right leaning Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas types. And whatever the current republican front runners are… Which is all to say, students of all political backgrounds are welcome on these campuses but they (like most other universities around the country) will have student bodies that are largely left of center.
@northstarfx, there are a couple of groups that I know about at Penn. My son won’t be starting until the fall (he’s on a gap year), so he doesn’t have experience with any group, but was in contact with someone from Cru (Campus Crusade for Christ) last spring. That will likely be the group he reaches out to first since his older brother was very involved during his time at MIT.
The other group that I’ve heard about is called University Christian Union, which seems to be an organization that trains Christians for leadership. You can check out the Penn site: http://www.christianunion.org/ministries/university-christian-union/penn
Regarding the culture of the campuses-I can’t really comment on Penn’s campus since my oldest didn’t attend, and my middle son won’t begin until the fall. Interestingly, while I had heard that Princeton was the most conservative as well, when my oldest was flown back there for his second visit (for admitted student’s weekend), he said that all of the organizations he saw were not conservative. I think it gets the reputation for several reasons, one of which is the presence of Robert George and the James Madison Program. George is a conservative Catholic and decidedly conservative on social isses, from my understanding.
What I do know about Penn is that they get a green light from FIRE, which is an organization that specifically monitors free speech policies and cases on college campuses. What this minimally tells me is that, hopefully, Penn takes seriously its mission statement for allowing freedom of thought and expression even if the overall culture of the campus is liberal. I also think having Wharton brings people to campus that might be at least economically conservative.
We have a young Christian friend that graduated from Penn several years ago, and she had a really good experience there. I don’t know if she was involved in campus ministries at all, but she attended the well known 10th Pres. Church.
Not sure how much that helped! Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more.
@Penn95 You’re right, I was off a bit. I thought it was around 48%. In 1990, Penn had a 41% acceptance rate. Is that “close to 50%?” Close enough.
If you go back a few years, though, you get to 50% well before you get to the '70s.
Bur if you want to go back to the 1970s, now you’re in the 65-70% acceptance range for Penn.
In 1980 Penn had a 40% acceptance rate and in 1985 a 36% acceptance rate. “Then, in the early 1990s, like all other colleges, it encountered a ‘baby bust’—a drop in the total number of college applicants, caused by a fall in birth rates eighteen years before.” Yes in the early 90s (1990-1992) Penn had the highest acceptance rate of all the ivies, around 40%, but by 1996-1997 the acceptance rate was below Cornell. Also Cornell s rate at the time was 32%. Also throughout the 80s Penns acceptance rate was below 40% so you d have to get to the late, mid-70s to get to a admit rate actually close to 50% (i.e 45%+). In the early 1970s Penn s acceptance rate was close to 70% but Yales was over 50% so go figure.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/09/the-early-decision-racket/302280/
http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/features/imagepenn/undergrad1.html
https://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000023.pdf
Still do not understand what these old data have to do with anything. No one is denying that Penn has made huge progress since the 70s and 80s. And that is actually a source of pride for those associated with the school. All that matters is where Penn is now not where it was 30 years ago.
Nowadays Penn has the highest yield rate after HYP amongst the ivies, a 10% acceptance rate despite its relatively large student population and the highest graduate salaries, best employment outcomes after Harvard. Also it ranks consistently in the top 10 in most domestic rankings and top 10-top 20 in most international rankings.
My cousin, a Penn graduate, visited fairly recently for her (30th? 35th? 40th?) college reunion. She was so impressed with the positive changes in both Penn and Philly. She was thrilled that my son would be attending. She’s not easily impressed, either. (True New Yorker)
This is College Confidential, not some low brow establishment.
We not only demand current prestigiosity, but also historical prestigiosity.
Also, Cornell’s high acceptance rate should not be compared to, everyone knows Cornell is not a real Ivy.
@sbjdorlo Penn not only has a green light from FIRE, but FIRE’s co-founder, Alan Kors is still a professor at Penn. In his Wikipedia picture, you can see him receiving the 2005 National Humanities Medal from President George Bush and his wife, Laura.