What is W&L Really Like?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
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<p>I'll admit to not having visited the place (I'm squeamish in general about the South) but from reading about W&L in numerous college guides and on the Internet, it sounds like a outstanding academic institution, one that offers a first-rate scholarly educational experience. But it also sounds like hell-on-earth for a kid who is very liberal socially and very liberal politically. </p>

<p>When I read about W&L images of the 1950s come to mind. The love of frats and sororities (is it true about sundresses and blazers?), Republican clubs, excessive talk about honor codes, referring to women as "ladies." I'm thinking Rhett Butler, Ashley Wilkes, Scarlett O'Hara and "Gone With the Wind." All that "southern honor" stuff that thought slavery and secession were good ideas and miscegenation an abomination. I imagine "time-warp" when I read about W&L, compared to say Wesleyan or Oberlin or Swarthmore. Is W&L just a brainiac version of Bob Jones University? For example, is there interracial dating at all? Or is it more a "southern tradition" type place, which I interpret as code for old-fashioned social paradigms? </p>

<p>I've steered my two current college students away from the South to what I believed to be more tolerant, 21st Century thinking schools, but I have a high school senior who has started looking now and has showed interest in a different type of place. So, what's W&L really like? How am I wrong and in what ways, perhaps, might some of my impressions be correct?</p>

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<p>I think they love leadership ?</p>

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<p>Is that your way of saying that my impressions are correct, but people at W&L prefer to categorize those antebellum traditions as “leadership?”</p>

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<p>I am interested in hearing how people familiar with the college respond as well.</p>

<p>OP–I understand that you would be considered about anyone who would think slavery was a good idea–but how can there be “excessive” talk about honor codes? Are there those who think lying, cheating and stealing are actually good activities to which only old-fashioned people object?</p>

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<p>APenny, that’s just one characteristic among many. Having an honor code is one thing. Other schools have them. The big deal that W&L seems to make of its code conjures up images of Southern secessionists rationalizing their actions because of Southern “honor” and their “way of life.” It’s just one factor among many that gives me the impression that culturally the college is stuck in a time warp. </p>

<p>There was another “time warp” example at another southern school. A poster on the Wake Forest board actually said (happily) that the university has “only” one fraternity that doesn’t accept blacks, as if that was evidence that the school was enlightened. I was appalled. I’d call that a serious time warp and at least some evidence of a “Gone With the Wind” type culture. </p>

<p>Are W&L and Wake Forest representative of leading southern collegiate institutions?</p>

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<p>Honor system, not code. If you are going to criticize our talk of honor, please call it by the correct name. The reason that we discuss it so much, is the fact that we are one of two universities with an honor system and our’s is student run. Sorry for being a gentleman and referring to women as ladies and saying “yes ma’am.” There is a College Democrats club as well as a Republican one. There are various thoughts at our school, it is not as homogeneous as many believe because they make assumptions off of speculations. Also I enjoy wearing a blazer and bow-tie, please tell me how that is a problem. Any questions you have, I will answer.</p>

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<p>Plainsman–If the South as you depict it really existed, I wouldn’t let my children go to college here, either. </p>

<p>Have you ever been to the South? Have you ever known anyone who lives in the South? Do you know that the definition of prejudice is “preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience?”</p>

<p>I am not an expert on W&L (my daughter is considering whether to apply there). I have, however, lived on-and-off in the South (including Virginia, at U.Va.) for 40 of my 49 years. Your depiction of Southern life is so off-base that it would be funny if it weren’t so sad. I’ve wondered all these years why the realtor I was interviewing when I was selling my house in Massachusetts to move back to NC lectured me on race relations, and now I know: she viewed the South as you do! She thought that was her chance to set me straight, and do her part to reform backward Southerners! I wonder what she would have thought had she known about my African-American niece.</p>

<p>Here are some facts: There is interracial dating at my children’s Christian high school here in NC. I have heard exactly one racist joke in my life, about 25 years ago, an occasion that I remember because I was so shocked. Girls wear sundresses in the South in part because they are cooler than blue jeans or other pants in hot weather. While I recognize that there are some people in the South who glorify the South’s Confederate past, I have never met one in any of the three Southern states in which I’ve lived.</p>

<p>Your senior probably shouldn’t go to college in the South if you have taught him or her to redefine such terms as “honor” and “leadership” to reflect your misperceptions of the South. It would just be too confusing for your child.</p>

<p>While I am appalled at your characterizations of the South, I appreciate the fact that you are asking questions.</p>

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<p>Plainsman, I apologize in advance if I am mischaracterizing you, but based on your posting history here in the W&L forum, and elsewhere on CC, I think you are ■■■■■■■■ with this thread. Thus, I write this post to alert others.</p>

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<p>A friends daughter, from upstate NYS, attends W and L. She loves it and she is a very liberal Jew! She had to get used to the predominance of Greek Life, because she found out that it is pretty much mandatory to belong. She has found friends who she has lots in common with.</p>

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<p>Look at the 6 sorority websites. You will see they ALL have higher percentiles of minorities as compared to the breakdown of the W&L student body. No idea about the guys, as I had a female General.</p>

<p>In terms of women’s GLOs, there were members from both sides of the [political] aisle, many religious denominations, many different team members, many ethnicities, and many different regions of the US.</p>

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<p>That’s what I was afraid of. My sense of it was that there was great pressure to conform. What you said validates my suspicions. No one in the history of my family has ever joined a frat/sorority or club. Don’t know yet where my son’s head is at with regard to “conforming” but I suspect he wouldn’t fit with that kind of mentality.</p>

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<p>Not sure what you mean by “female General.” Are you talking about the military? I didn’t think W&L was a military academy. </p>

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<p>Actually, both of my parents are from the South. Georgia and North Carolina respectively. What they told me about growing up there made me cringe. I know that was a different generation. Yes, I have been in the South. I went to college in the South freshman year. I transfered back “up north” because of the culture shock I experienced. Again, I recognize that my generation is not the same as my kid’s. But from what little I have read about W&L it feels like time has stood still.</p>

<p>Coincidentally, I’ve been doing quite a bit of troubleshooting lately for my employer, dealing with various personnel issues in our facilities in Virginia and North Carolina. People down there do seem to have a different way of thinking and I could not in fairness describe their mentality as “open-minded.” But I was trying not to judge W&L based on conversations with the kind of people who might send their kids to W&L or live in the vicinity.</p>

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<p>Nothing wrong with blazers and bowties, if you’re at a military academy or one of those ultra-religious (so-called Christian) colleges or a conservative Catholic university. It’s expected. If W&L is not one of those, you have to admit that’s not the norm outside the South. If I’m wrong, please name the colleges outside the South that aren’t religious where that kind of student attire is the norm. </p>

<p>Look, I’ve already said W&L is an elite academic institution. I"m kind of mystified why/how such a first-rate institution of higher learning seems to be stuck in a sort of cultural time warp. It does appear that I’m not wrong about it.</p>

<p>The reason I’ve been thinking about W&L as a possibility for my son, the real reason, is the Johnson Scholarship. Yes, I’m motivated by money. I would like to save a huge amount of money on kid #3. Very few LACs offer anything as attractive. But maybe the college is so odd (stuck in a cultural time warp) that it’s not worth it. My son is half-black and half-Swedish. He looks like the Swedish half of the family (like his mom), but readily talks about his other half (me) with great pride. He’s always mistaken for white. He has perfectly straight Auburn hair, blue eyes and white skin. Prejudiced white people say things about blacks around him because they haven’t a clue he’s half black. They would never know it if he didn’t tell them. I’m just not so sure, Johnson Scholarship or not, if Dixie is the right place for him. Where would he fit in at W&L?</p>

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<p>You and your son should do the tour at W&L to see firsthand what it is like. The traditions they have are those that respect and value all people. You should open your mind but not apply for the scholarship just for the money if he has not stepped foot on the campus.</p>

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<p>First off, W&L is not a Christian college so I don’t understand that comparison with the talks concerning bowties and blazers. At other colleges that are not Christian in the South you will see guys in blazers and bowties; Bama, Auburn, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Duke, Elon, Wofford, Furman, Sewanne, C of C, USC, UGA, etc. Another thing is I am not religous at all and I fit in at W&L. No one ever asks about religion, and for the most part the people who are religious don’t care about others. While I won’t say no one is racist, sexist, or homophobic, most people are not. We just happen to enjoy many aspects that some people see as Southern, such as the blazer and bowties or sundresses, chivalry, tradition. Also the state with the third largest population at W&L is New Jersey.</p>

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<p>I know full well I should not respond to this thread, but I’m going to do it despite my better judgment.</p>

<p>I think the OP has named some stereotypes of the South in general and I would be remiss if I did not categorize W&L as a Southern institution; however, I feel like the close-minded essence of your (the OP) comments defeats the very goal you are attempting to reach. I’ll be more specific. Let’s address the issue of attire (which really should not be the criterion for which a university is chosen, but you mentioned it). Do some of the students at W&L (proudly) wear bowties, topsiders, and searsucker suits? Absolutely. Do other students NEVER dream of wearing any of those aforementioned items? You bet. If you go to southern California will the majority of students wear boarshorts, Quicksilver, Billabong, and other beachware regularly? Yes. If you go up to New England, will a lot of students wear Vineyard Vines ties and (what this author considers stupid looking) shorts with whales on them? Yes. You seem to have an inherent bias against the differing regional characteristics of a southern school for no other reason than they are not the “norms” at other places. Yet, the norms in the north, west, and mid-west are also different, but you don’t have take issue with those.</p>

<p>You claim that W&L is stuck in a time warp, but nothing about W&L is old fashion with the exception of the Speaking Tradition and the Honor System. W&L is one of the only small, liberal arts schools in the country to have business, journalism, and engineering. In fact, it is the only SLAC to have an accredited school of business. Is that forward thinking? It was the first school in the country to create an interdisciplinary approach to studying the contributing factors and possible solutions of poverty. Is that forward thinking? It fully funds students through full grant financial aid? Is that forward thinking?</p>

<p>Finally, I’ll address your concept of conformity. I graduated from W&L and did not fit into any of the typical sterotypes of a W&L student. I joined a fraternity when I never thought I would have and had a phenomenal experience. I will admit that I slightly conformed to a social requisite by joining this fraternity, but I learnd later that the Greek experience at W&L is in many ways different from other universities. The Greek environment is one of inclusiveness and I had many friends who were very happy as independent students, or who joined fraternities that didn’t party every weekend. Your comments show that you are “conforming” to the stereotypical concept of a fraternity rather than seeing what an actual fraternity is like at W&L. No one complains about the eating clubs at the Iveys, but I assure you they are infinitely more exclusive and prejudiced than W&L’s Greek system.</p>

<p>Ultimately, I find your assumptions counter-productive. Out of all the resources at W&L (of which there are many), interacting with those who are different was by the far most valuable and rewarding. You say you don’t want your son/daughter to conform, but aren’t you conforming by only considering the typical northeastern institutions? I loved having friends who had differing opinions from myself, came from different backgrounds (and in my fraternity alone there were people from California, New Jersey, Texas, Virginia, Alabama, New York, Maryland, Tennessee, Missippi, Florida, Arkansas, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, North Carolina, and South Carolina and there were ethnic minorities and religious minorities), and, ultimately, came from different cultures. What is the point of going to a school where everyone agrees with your point of view? Wouldn’t you rather have your son/daughter be able to empathize with different points of view and be able to defend her own personal beliefs. By simply brushing aside a school because of cycloptic stereotypes, you are denying the very diversity you are hoping to gain. This is one of the essential problems of our nation: a lack of discussion. Your comments imply that because people dress differently and join organizations you find “outdated” they are stupid. Wouldn’t it be amazing if you actually took the time to visit this school, ask students about their opinions, and most importantly ask them why they have a certain value system? You may find you disagree with their reasons, but I assure you that intelligent people (like the student body at W&L) don’t have stupid beliefs. They have reasons for thinking and acting the way they do. People generally encourage their students to study abroad to embrace different cultures, but why don’t more parents encourage their students to explore the different cultures in their own country? I think they would be happily suprised by what they find out. For instance, only half of the students at W&L are form the South. I would make a guess that 50-60% of the student population is conservative, which using my amazing liberal arts education I received in the south, tells me that 40-50% of the students are liberal. Not everyone in the South is a sympathizing Confederate. In addition, I have personally experienced and seen racism EVERYWHERE. Name me a city where racism and prejudice is non-existent because I would love to move there. The idea that by avoiding southern schools you are protecting your son from racial prejudice is ludicrous. Racism is a part of our society and your son should learn how to handle these situtations regardless of where he attends college. You need to let poor decisions from the past go. Did you know Harvard and Dartmouth received significant grants specifically to educate Native Americans 200 years ago, but not a penny went to the Native Americans (arguably for the better)? Do we consider those schools to be full of racists? The Ivey League schools had specific admissions policies that capped the number of Jewish students who could attend fifty years ago. Do we consider those schools anti-semitic? Probably not.</p>

<p>I apologize for the length of this post, but your comments are the exact comments that drive me crazy about the educational system in our country. Also, if you are not ■■■■■■■■ and you have honest questions perhaps you should not use a condescending tone in future comments and people will be more receptive.</p>

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<p>The mascot is the General in recognition of GENERAL George Washington and GENERAL Robert E. Lee.
[Vineyard</a> Vines “George & Bob” Key Fob](<a href=“http://wlubookstore.collegestoreonline.com/ePOS?store=425&item_number=V335&form=shared3%2Fcatalogs%2Fcommon%2Flarge_image_popup.html&design=425]Vineyard”>http://wlubookstore.collegestoreonline.com/ePOS?store=425&item_number=V335&form=shared3%2Fcatalogs%2Fcommon%2Flarge_image_popup.html&design=425)</p>

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<p>I’m the mom of a teenage son who is considering W&L purely because of the Johnson Scholarship. He is a National Merit Semifinalist, and the W&L admissions folks have been mailing and e-mailing him, encouraging him to apply.</p>

<p>We live in NC, which has one of the best state-university systems in the country – but a full-coverage scholarship is hard to beat, even at a UNC-system school.</p>

<p>I have serious concerns about whether my son would fit in there, though. He’s very gregarious, and he makes friends easily, but he’s not the frat type at all. To the contrary, he’s kind of a non-conformist and an individualist. He’s also Catholic, fairly conservative (but not way out there), and accustomed to light drinking, not binge drinking (much less hookups and all of that cr@p).</p>

<p>Can a non-conformist fit in at W&L? Must all W&L students be cut from the same cookie-cutter?</p>

<p>LadyDianeski</p>

<p>P.S. I was born and reared in Boston, Mass. Spent over half my life there. We’ve lived here in the South (NC) for 21 years. I would never, ever go back up North, except to visit relatives. The South Rules!</p>

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<p>Visit W&L and have your son overnight with a student.</p>

<p>I know several people at W&L with some or all of the qualities you describe. He should be fine, but the only way to tell will be to visit and meet and spend some time with the students.</p>

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<p>"Nothing wrong with blazers and bowties, if you’re at a military academy or one of those ultra-religious (so-called Christian) colleges or a conservative Catholic university. It’s expected. If W&L is not one of those, you have to admit that’s not the norm outside the South. If I’m wrong, please name the colleges outside the South that aren’t religious where that kind of student attire is the norm. </p>

<p>Look, I’ve already said W&L is an elite academic institution. I"m kind of mystified why/how such a first-rate institution of higher learning seems to be stuck in a sort of cultural time warp. It does appear that I’m not wrong about it"</p>

<p>I’m going to give you an honest opinion, but come on. Why would you say things like this? Why are you SO concerned about the norm? Yes, sometimes people wear blazers and bowties, but it’s not as if that’s everyday attire by any means. If someone wears that day-to-day, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it in our eyes. But while many people sort of “dress up” for school, many don’t and there is nothing wrong with wearing sweats and a t shirt to class. </p>

<p>When I was looking at schools, I didn’t consider a single southern institution besides W&L. In fact, W&L seemed to stand for everything I didn’t want in a school at first - a large frat scene, living off campus for 2 years - but honestly I could not be happier right now. I’m from the North and there was relatively little “culture shock.” The biggest shock was how friendly people are here compared to at home. </p>

<p>There is plenty of diversity. I was expecting to head home with a Southern accent but it turns out that the people here are from all over the country and world. Don’t let the stereotypes fool you. No, there may not be as many minority students here as at other schools, but the diversity among experiences, lifestyles, beliefs, etc. is impressive. I really have learned a lot on a daily basis from the incredibly smart people here.</p>

<p>Everyone manages to be a great person who works hard and has a lot of fun too. We know our priorities…people get their work done because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t last 4 years. The frat scene is amazing, and it’s a good thing because it makes Lexington into a surprisingly fun town. There is something big going on every night, but this doesn’t mean that everyone goes out every night. People want to finish their work so they have time to head out to the frats and everything that is going on.</p>

<p>I honestly am stunned that you’d turn an honor system and “Southern traditions” into racism. Is there something I’m missing here? The honor system is incredible and it works. How does not cheating on an exam or feeling safe leaving your backpack outside equate to racism and some sort of Jim Crow South? It’s literally unbelievable the way your stereotypes have played out. Again, I’m from the North, and the biggest change is how nice everyone is here. You can definitely feel it in the air - everyone is encouraged to be friendly.</p>

<p>Don’t expect to get the Johnson Scholarship. Just because your son got good SAT scores absolutely does not guarantee anything. Everyone here got good scores. Make sure that he likes it here first. Definitely come down for a visit and feel free to ask people to talk about the school. You’ll be impressed. You need to keep your mind open to all sorts of schools… the more you actually go and visit the better off you’ll be. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Thank you, beautyistruth! (And love that monkier, BTW. :-)</p>

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<p>Oops, that should be moniker. Getting dyslexic in my old age.</p>