What is your recent experience with large universities?

Parents Forum
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<p>I am seeing signs that my daughter likes the vibe of big state schools (tens of thousands of students).</p>

<p>I am concerned about the type of education she would receive. She is not an enthusiastic student, and we are hoping that a nurturing LAC might help light an intellectual fire in her. </p>

<p>Our fear is that, at a big school, she would do the minimum to get by and not take full advantage of what college academics can offer.</p>

<p>What has been your student's experience finding their way at a big school? Were they intellectually challenged in classes with hundreds of students? Did you have an undecided student who found his/her passion? Did a professors take your student under his/her wing, or did he/she remain a face in the crowd?</p>

<p>I am most interested in hearing the experiences of less motivated students who are not honors students and who are undecided in their major but unlikely to major in the maths or sciences. (This is because I am convinced that motivated and focused students will be successful where ever they choose to matriculate.)</p>

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I am most interested in hearing the experiences of less motivated students who are not honors students and who are undecided in their major but unlikely to major in the maths or sciences. (This is because I am convinced that motivated and focused students will be successful where ever they choose to matriculate.)

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<p>I think this is the crux of the matter. You can get a great education at large state schools, but the student must be able to withstand the distractions. I think it also depends on who they end up being friends with. I know two kids who just finished their freshman year at a very large school, neither fantastic students, but one ended with a B average, the other a D+. The second just could not drag himself to class, too much partying. </p>

<p>Having said that, this can be a problem almost anywhere. At some point you have to hope your child has learned good values.</p>

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<p>Older S, a gifted slacker, went by choice to a large 2nd tier public because he was a big sports fan, and wanted to be in the sports culture. A big red flag that I overlooked as he chose his college was that he wanted to be in a large college because classes would be so big that professors wouldn't notice him. </p>

<p>In high school,he'd had virtually no friends or social life. Most of the time he was either at home or at work. Didn't go to any parties, prom, even skipped his graduation.</p>

<p>In college (journalism major), he blossomed into Mr. Cool who partied heavily He didn't bother to go to class even though the classes would have been very easy for him. He hung out with older students who literally told me when I visited that they were taking their time graduating because they liked being in college and hanging out.</p>

<p>No surprise, S flunked out, and at age 24 hasn't returned to college.</p>

<p>If I were to do it over, I'd do what his best friend's parents did: Made slacker S live at home and go to a community college. There, the young man finally got the grades he was capable of. Afterward, he transferred to our state's flagship, where he got high grades and graduated.</p>

<p>LACs are expensive, and I wouldn't pay for an unenthusiastic student to go to one in hopes the LAC will light a fire in them. Younger S was a slacker in h.s., and senior year, he slacked so much that he almost didn't graduate. H and I told him we would not pay for college until he had gone to college for 1 year on his own dime and had gotten at least a 3.0.</p>

<p>S did a gap year living at home and volunteering fulltime for Americorps, a wonderful organization. Afterward, he could have lived at home and gone to a 4-year or community college without taking out loans, but instead, he chose an expensive second tier LAC that gave him some merit aid. He paid for the rest with hefty loans, savings from his Americorps stipened, and some scholarship money (Americorps is very impressive to colleges). His first semester grades were a 3.66. He has managed to get good grades while being involved in college ECs and working during the school year.</p>

<p>Amazing what our students can do when they want to be in college, and are responsible for the funding of it.</p>

<p>BTW, there are plenty of students who are big time partiers at younger S's LAC, and who are flunking out as a result. Attending a LAC with caring professors, great academic opportunities is no guarantee that a fire will be lit in an unenthusiastic student, particularly one who is going there on their parents' dime.</p>

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<p>I'm not so concerned about DD flunking out.</p>

<p>I'm just assessing which type of potting soil will most enable her to bloom where planted.</p>

<p>From all reports, there are plenty of college students out there enjoying college while doing only what they have to do to get by.</p>

<p>It's just that, standards at some schools are such that "doing only what they have to do to get by" actually requires them to be intellectually engaged.</p>

5

<p>"I'm not so concerned about DD flunking out."</p>

<p>My advice is to be more concerned about D's flunking out. Remember, right now, you are helping her stay on track for graduation. In college, she'll have to organize and motivate herself. If she's not that interested in school now, she's likely to be less interested when in college especially when there are so many distractions.</p>

<p>I never thought older S would flunk out of college. He was smart, and was going to college by his own choice. He loved the college, too. He also always had managed to pull his grades through in high school by cramming at the last minute. It never would have crossed my mind that in college, he wouldn't even bother going to class or showing up for exams.</p>

<p>"From all reports, there are plenty of college students out there enjoying college while doing only what they have to do to get by."</p>

<p>When you look at the colleges where students with average grades go, the drop-out and flunk out rate can be as high as 50%.</p>

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<p>A friend recently sat in on some classes at Penn State with her D to look at the school. They sat in the back and observed a large percentage of the kids in the large lecture hall surfing the net, sleeping or texting on their phones. Attendance was required, so kids were in the seats, but that was about it. I think large classes and an impersonal environment can be a real problem for a less than motivated student. My son is extremely driven and is at a top 10 private, and he thought his large freshman classes were terrible and blew off many of the classes.</p>

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<p>I've known slacker kids who stumbled at LACs too. There are no guarantees. I think the best way to survive freshman year is to take a couple of classes you love. Don't use it just to get all the big general ed distribution requirements out of the way, and don't take too many pre-med weed-out courses.</p>

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<p>Even Top 10 Law schools have had trouble with students surfing and texting in class--so much so that they are banning using the net or phones in class.</p>

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<p>My S went to a fairly large private (not mega-sized, but plenty lecture hall classes, as well as plenty seminar style classes.) He could be called a "gifted slacker" and did not work particularly hard in HS, though was able to get into a very highly rated college. The first couple years he did fine; they have a core with mostly small classes, and when directly connected to class, he rose to the occasion. However, when he got more into his major, which he was not invested in (never found something he really wanted to do) and stopped feeling connected to his school, he started taking big lecture classes whenever he could, and then not showing up. He hasn't nearly "flunked out" (still has a >3.0 GPA), but he had two out of his last three semesters being very unsatisfactory, and finally withdrew mid-eighth semester to figure out what to do next. At at this school, at least, just skimming along was an invitation to disaster. Maybe somewhere else would be different.</p>

<p>My H and I feel he would've been better off at an LAC like his sister went to. When someone is paying attention to his level of work, he rises to it. When he can get away with anonymity, he does. partying was not the issue for him, just lack of engagement. I think he'd have been more engaged, and more successfully so, in a smaller, more personal school.</p>

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They sat in the back and observed a large percentage of the kids in the large lecture hall surfing the net, sleeping or texting on their phones. Attendance was required, so kids were in the seats, but that was about it.

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<p>MoWC, setting the bar of expectations this low is exactly what concerns me.</p>

<p>Many kids will rise to a challenge, but will not remove themselves from a situation where expectations are low (or may not even recognize it as such).</p>

<p>garland, what you are describing is more in line with my fears about what can go wrong with big lecture classes and the possibility of flying below the radar.</p>

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<p>I also have a big school atmosphere loving kid. You might want to look at schools that have living/learning communities for freshmen to help ease with the transition and make the big campus smaller. They have small groups of kids linked by majors or common interests, who live on the same floor and take 2-3 classes together along with a freshmen seminar. The groups usually have upperclass mentors, closer relationships with profs and built in study groups. Two schools my S loved and applied to that have freshmen learning communities are Kansas and Missouri-Columbia (Mizzou). USNews also lists Indiana, Iowa State, Michigan State, Illinois, Temple , Maryland, Wisconsin and Washington among others.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the list of suggestions, my-3-sons.</p>

<p>DD is interested in schools in a warm climate, and several we have checked out do have the learning community thing. I just haven't been able to get much of a feel for the prevalence of large classes and how that affects the learning experience.</p>

<p>Obviously most schools don't boast about their large lecture courses....:rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Low motivation S of a friend is going to a large state U (flagship but not high tier). He did not get into any of the smaller U's or LAC's where he applied, except one which in the end did not appeal to him.</p>

<p>He has continued to be unmotivated; academics are just not his thing. He does not go to all classes; has dropped classes beyond the deadline, missed final exams (!) and so it will be dicey whether he graduates on time. I do think he will graduate.</p>

<p>He puts way more energy into his weekend plans than academics. His current focus in thinking ahead to senior year is all about what the best off-campus apartment situation will be rather than how to address those credit shortages he created (his parents are steering him with a cattle prod to address those items).</p>

<p>He has set his sights on a career for which the college degree will be nice but not required. He is behaving in a very motivated fashion about that (currently finishing his junior year in college) - networking with people in the field, seeking summer jobs and job shadowing, looking into licensing requirements. He is very well suited to this field (involves sales; he is a people person), even though he is not suited (or at least is not motivated) academically. </p>

<p>Not really a success story, but you asked ;).</p>

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<p>Pay attention to the schools that excite your D- if she is really interested in a large school it may work for her. The important thing is that she needs to actively want to go to whichever school, large or small, public or private, that she enrolls at. You may want to have various small topic at a time discussions with her about what she expects from college, what she plans to do about attendance, homework, social life... Try to find out which things will make a difference so that when you visit schools you and she can zoom in on the factors that will make the difference in her success. Good luck and enjoy the process.</p>

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<p>jmmom, in some ways that's a success story -- it sounds like he will be gainfully employed on graduation, and does have motivation and focus for some things that count, even if it's not academics.</p>

<p>wis75, I agree about the need for enthusiasm, and there is much to be said for liking the feel of a campus. I just doubt that she can imagine a class of hundreds and have a sense of how she would cope. She attends a good high school, so her experience so far has been that high expectations and available support from teachers are a given.</p>

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<p>No matter where she goes to school - no kid should go to college without the golden rule in mind. The number one factor for college success - beyond SAT scores or grades or socio-economic status or race or ethnic background - by far and away the most significant correlative factor of all - is going to class - as in never, ever (unless incredibly sick) miss a class. My own daughter goes to one of the public Ivies (admittedly on their most prestigious scholarship), and she is not one to miss class - a devoted student by any means and now two years into it is a real success with perfect grades. But you never know right, until they go off to college and begin to prove themselves? Before she attended, I insisted she sign a contract about going to every class, and set forth the dollar per hour rate for each class attended. Did the same with my three nephews - and had no problem with doing so. This of course all too simplifies what it takes to be successful in college, but if you can't master this basic, only the phenomenally brilliant (and there are not many of those) can succeed.</p>

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<p>They are at large schools, but one must utilize the professors office hours, not hard to do, and recommended for students. Do talk with your D and perhaps some of her answers will surprise you, only after discussions will you know.</p>

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<p>My experience with first son, an undisciplined student, is that large publics are a difficult environment. The first two years are typically large classes covering general requirements. If the student is not disciplined enough to attend class, utilize the class/department/university resources or spend time with the profs, they are likely to fail. The distractions are so great. My son flunked out and at 25 hasn't returned yet. His older sister was at a mid size public and, with a bit more academic discpline and smaller class sizes, did well. Son's younger brother is at small private and is doing very well...but is a much more academically disciplined person.</p>

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<p>My d only wanted large universities. She has done well so far in that environment. There are some good profs and some bad ones, so I won't say that she is always engaged in class, but I guess that could happen anywhere. One prof actually challenged her personally to exceed his previous highest grade given after he complimented her on a few assignments, which is a great way to motivate her! So even in the large school environment students can be challenged to excell.
When she decided on a large school we told her that she would have to be pro-active in getting the education she wanted since nobody would be holding her hand. My husband and I agreed that it would give her experience more akin to the real world and therefore not a bad thing. </p>

<p>She quickly figured out how to get the classes she wanted, how to utilize office hours, how to get to know her professors, etc. She has an advisor who is very helpful and has been able to obtain recommendations for internships etc. She is not "just a number" thank goodness.
Since it is a large school all of this comes with - big time football, clubs and organizations for any interest, a huge selction of course offerings, a very diverse student body, etc. </p>

<p>Not for every kid, but some do thrive in the big school environment. I am glad we trusted her to know herself best.</p>

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<p>S1 ( a good student) attends big instate u. in the south. The large classes have basically been all the intro. science classes with about 200 per class. The required labs are much smaller numbers. Help is available if needed but the student must be proactive enough to seek the help. All his other classes have generally been about 30 or so students in a class. He did seek out help while struggling with Calc2 freshman yr. He went to office hrs. every week. The teacher was always willing to help him. He came out of it with a B but would not have if he had not taken the initiative to seek help. S1 has loved the big state u. experience and would not trade it for anything. </p>

<p>S2 a very average h.s sr. is planning to attend diff. big state u. (one of the directionals,lol) in our state. He was accepted to two (the only ones he applied to) and is going to the larger of the two. Like you, OP I worry about his motivation factor but we're going to let him give it a shot. He proclaims that he will be more motivated in college. He has chosen a major that he's now very interested in pursuing as a career. He knows if he flunks out it will be back to living with us, going to the CC and working at the same job he has had for the past two years of h.s None of that sounds appealing to him. He knows there's a lot on the line.</p>

<p>To be honest, I'm not expecting an intellectual fire to be lit under this S. We don't expect him to be on the Dean's List every semseter as his brother has done. He's just not that kind of student. We do expect him to give his best effort and do what it takes to get through. Some of his friends here are big slackers. We think S will have a much better chance for success by going off to college than staying here to go to the CC and continuing to hang with his slacker friends. He has told me that himself...which is a good sign..I think.</p>