<p>I must say that I find it interesting that (note that I'm quoting a teacher on this, so I can't give statistics or internet proof) a high percentage of higher-level scientists are deeply religious.</p>
<p>Really? That's pretty cool, I have to say that I find that hard to believe.</p>
<p>Well, everyone uses Einstein as the obvious example when demonstrating this, but she said it was a lot of phsics/astrophysics/etc. scientists who can't possibly comprehend how a universe so complicated could have been created without a helping hand from the supernatural, with dice and coincidence, etc., whether they believe in evolution, creationism, etc. Quite interesting...I might look into it beyond what I was told some time.</p>
<p>I have no trouble accepting that high level scientists are often very spiritual- spirituality transcends the lines of occupation and expertise. I definitly contest, however, the idea that highly qualified scientists and a belief in creationism can coexist.</p>
<p>Yeah, me too, hehe, sorry...wasn't thinking, words spilled out of brain, but you get the point... replace creationism with the big bang and intelligent design or something like that.</p>
<p>no problem:)</p>
<p>"Well, everyone uses Einstein as the obvious example when demonstrating this, but she said it was a lot of phsics/astrophysics/etc. scientists who can't possibly comprehend how a universe so complicated could have been created without a helping hand from the supernatural, with dice and coincidence, etc., whether they believe in evolution, creationism, etc. Quite interesting...I might look into it beyond what I was told some time."</p>
<p>Einstein didn't believe in God, and your teacher is full of crap. Ask for the source of her statistics.</p>
<p>And since there are mechanistic explanations for our existence, why would you conclude that supernatural intelligence must have designed it?</p>
<p>From Einstein's mouth</p>
<p>It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.</p>
<p>Simply because some scientists believe that the universe is way too complicated to exist without a supernatural being.</p>
<p>And Einstein...? Um, he was asked to lead Israel and he replied saying that he was no politician.</p>
<p>Einstein rejected CONVENTIONAL religion, yes, and questioned it much, yes, but had faith and his own ideas on the supernatural.</p>
<p>"Einstein was also a proponent of Schopenhauer's idea of a "cosmic religious feeling," in which true religiosity is constituted simply by a sense of wonder and awe for the world. Einstein claimed that although science and religion as traditionally conceived were antagonistic, the religiosity of cosmic religious feeling is actually the strongest motive for scientific research; only those who feel a rapturous amazement at the harmony of nature can delve into her secrets. He argued that Kepler and Newton were inspired by a deep belief in the rationality of the universe and a faith in universal causation. Einstein thus understood science and religion to function in concert with one another. "</p>
<p>"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."~Albert Einstein</p>
<p>Both Einstein and Schopenhauer seem to have engendered a form of passion or reverence for events and phenomena greater than themselves rather than for God (instead of wonder at 'God's creations' they were in awe of nature's complexity); Einstein's atheism proves that he doesn't consider the remarkable universe too intricate for independent creation and sustainment.
(I think I'm 'cosmically religious' too).</p>
<p>Except Einstein was very opposed to being labeled athiest.
Such an interesting historical figure.</p>
<p>Have any of y'all read the Brief History of Time yet? I've only looked at snippets, but it's really relevant to all this.</p>
<p>(re: Einstein) I used atheist--too simplistically--as a synonym for one who does not believe in God. But I'd have to agree he's incredibly fascinating.</p>
<p>And so is the universe. :) I'm now reading the online version of a brief history of time, thanks to spring break.</p>
<p>einstein may have been opposed to the term atheist in that god is representative of supernatural, or uncomprehendible, powers. or he had no idea what he was and didn't want to be labeled as anything, which may be more likely.</p>
<p>i'm an atheist, but i think religion has its purpose. if a common belief can bring people together in a community that thrives upon one another, then i believe it's a wonderful thing. i don't try to force my thoughts or beliefs on any one else, and i get offended when others try to force theirs upon me (incessantly that is -- a quick attempt maybe, okay -- but i'm referring to the notorious annoying ones who continue to annoy). I think the universe is difficult to comprehend, but some religion seems logically frivolous. (religions formed because fat kings get ****ed, or guys can't keep their "urges" under control). This is a topic that so much could be said about, and doing so on a forum would take forever, not to mention keeping your thoughts and reasons in order.</p>
<p>that being said, i hope if i have children they the majority of my family (one side anyway) is religious and the get-togethers are wonderful, and i think the belief in the higher power is what has kept such a strong link to one another in how they care about each other.</p>
<p>and radical anything is downright stupid -- christian, muslim, or whatever. killing one another in the name of whoever, be it God or Allah is not the mark of logic, but of an ineptitude to think for oneself, following blindly, and giving relgion in general a bad name.</p>
<p>i'm stopping now cause i could go on for quite a while...</p>
<p>I've been raised a Lutheran. I believe in God 100%, and also believe that other people of other religions are great in believing in some form of higher power or powers. I believe Jesus existed . . . almost 100%.</p>
<p>I think it's ignorant for athiests to claim that people who believe in God are ignorant/stupid. Most people who take this position say that everything that exists can be proven or what not. The idea of a God requires faith, which by definition means it can't be proven. You could have a philosophical discussion all day about religion I suppose.</p>
<p>Personally I don't see why you would want to live if there is no such thing as a higher power or greater good. Perhaps you might follow something like "atheist's religion of doing good for the sake of goodness."</p>
<p>Grad06 - </p>
<p>Ever hear of living for yourself? Pursuing your own happiness?</p>
<p>Personally I wouldn't want to live if I was the slave of some higher power or the equally repugnant "common good".</p>
<p>If you admit something can't be proven why do you believe in it? How do you know what you believe is true if it can't be verified?</p>
<p>i think myself puts it well from an atheist's perspective. all atheists are not bad people, contrary to what many believe. i'm here to do what i can to benefit myself, my friends, my family, and hopefully mankind in general. i'm here to survive, and have a good time doing it if i can. having a belief in a higher power, eternal life, damnation, or whatever, does not necessarily give one the right to live and that same right not given to those that don't. (i know this hasn't been said, but i'm trying to drive a point home) This could be argued all day, but it should be said that in discussions like this, atheists have an advantage because most (not all i know, but you get the point) were raised in a religious household and know both sides of the coins -- it adds breadth and depth to the point.</p>
<p>try and look at both sides of the story.</p>
<p>that being said i wish i were religious, because it does give a more definitive point to being. if i do get married, it will likely be to a religious person because, like i said, i think it's a wonderful thing to bring people and families together.</p>
<p>i don't sleep around, or burn black candles in the shape of a pentagram for fun. religion, beliefs, atheism, agnosticism, faith, good, evil, right, and wrong are not all mutually exclusive of one another.</p>
<p>I think I agree with grad06 in part. I don't think one neccessarily needs faith in a higher being but faith in SOMETHING otherwise, we are no more than Eliot's hollow men- simply going through the motions with no true substance to our lives. </p>
<p>...and myself --"If you admit something can't be proven why do you believe in it? How do you know what you believe is true if it can't be verified?"
it's called FAITH, and our lives would be pretty miserable things without it.</p>
<p>Gambadent -</p>
<p>Speak for yourself. I know what you're trying to do - and it doesn't work. You're trying to lend weight to your opinion or argument by making blanket statements about "our" lives, or everyone. You also claimed that faith and value are equivalent. The two words aren't even close - using the argument from intimidation doesn't help unless the person you're arguing with is particulalry feeble minded - something none of us are on this board. Try something more subtle next time.</p>
<p>It is ridiculous to attempt to provide logical proof for the existance of God. Faith is by definition irrational (by this I mean that it is not backed by reason)... and you should not have to prove the existance of God if you believe. But this raises a problem which is that people who do not believe because they think it irrational are in a sense dismissed as being "bad" people. Not believing in God does not translate into not believing in good or in morals. </p>
<p>I think that most atheists mislabel themselves as such as they have gotten much of their moral beliefs from religious principals. There are in actuality very few TRUE atheists. I am a true atheist. And for that reason I do not label myself as one for I know I will be confused with ignorant people who do not understand the meaning of atheism. It is more than simply not believing in the supernatural...</p>
<p>Define supernatural?</p>