<p>I want to thank you for this post. It really got the ball rolling for me and my D last year when I changed my focus to cost. Really, unless you have the fortune to be wealthy, I don’t see how you can not take money into account in this economy and with the lousy interest rates of student loans. </p>
<p>So because I read this post, I started doing research into full rides and also colleges that are need-blind and state they avoid loans (eg Ivies). Our EFC is only $4000, and my D’s stats are 800V, 740W & 610M, top 5% in class, with several first prizes in Latin in the state, first prizes in poetry, first prizes in art, and top 100 in nation in Linguistics. She also works 20 hours/week at the public library She had excellent recommendations and her counselor thought she was a very strong candidate.</p>
<p>Result? I think she was hurt by my $4000 EFC, frankly–but she did get into Cornell & Williams, as well as Penn State Schreyers and Rutgers Honors. But NONE of these offer ANY significant scholarship as yet ($3000/year–the rest loans). This is impossible for us.</p>
<p>Thankfully, she also applied to Macaulay Honors at Hunter…And got in!!! What a fabulous program! Full ride! I think this year especially the caliber of student will be exceptional, because of the economy. We are thrilled.</p>
<p>Again, I want to thank this site because I don’t know if I would have focused so intensely on money–getting a good education with as low a loan as possible. And honestly I thought she’d get better offers from well endowed schools such as Cornell (Williams hasn’t given its offer yet, but I would find it hard to believe it would top ‘free’). I think this economy makes these programs extremely competitive now, more than when this site was started. I was kind of appalled by those snobs who attack people who want to go to a third tier school in exchange for no loan. How can you honestly justify $200K (at least) versus free? Unless you’re rich? I firmly believe that if you’re driven and goal oriented, and focused on post-graduate work (grad school, med school,etc.) you will shine anywhere. Anyway, thanks and good luck to all.</p>
<p>Congrats Hoveringmom! I am thrilled for you! </p>
<p>After a similiar choice 4 yrs ago my son is off to a top grad school (fully funded). So don’t worry about grad school choices as it didn’t seem to hurt him going to his safety.</p>
<p>hoveringmom – I believe there are studies that support your last thoughts on your post. That students who are bright, focused, and goal driven will succeed whether they are at an Ivy/elite or down a tier or two. I believe that as well and have faith in my children that they will be successful. They have already demonstrated self motivation and direction in HS. Congratulations to your daughter on her wonderful opportunity!!</p>
<p>Congrats to hoveringmom’s D on the excellent opportunity. In the interest of full disclosure, however, I would note to lurkers that schools like Cornell and Williams really do meet full need–I’m guessing that there may be a non-custodial parent or exceptional assets (more likely the former, it screws up FA quite often) in this case.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks for the kind words. As far as Cornell, I don’t know–You’re right about the non-custodial. I have no idea what my ex’s assets are. It’s sad because he’s unwilling to pay a dime for her college, and yet his assets need to be taken account of. On the other hand, it’s fair. All parents’ assets have to be taken account of, even if married parents are not willing to pay a dime. So I guess it’s just life. I’ll be interested to see what Williams offers (I think we find out tomorrow), but I’m not holding my breath. Has anyone else had the experience that if you need aid, it’s harder to get into the college? Is that my imagination, or is that borne by facts?</p>
<p>Anyway, I emphatically agree that what matters most is your drive, determination, and connections you make while at college, particularly professors and any internships. My ex went to Michigan State and got a Churchill Scholarship, the science version of a Rhodes, then landed as a grad student at a Nobel prize winner’s lab in MIT. Top schools help you, but nothing will help you if you don’t make an effort; and if you make an effort, I firmly believe you can go anywhere :-)</p>
<p>Nice job hoveringmom. It might be difficult to turn down Cornell, Williams and similar quality schools with little to no financial assistance for the lower tier school w/full ride, but you and your DD won’t regret it. Our DS turned down Duke, Rice, WashU and Wake Forest with little or no aid for a full ride to Furman. It has turned out to be a wonderful decision. Furman was a perfect fit. DS will have to be dragged away from campus when he graduates next month. He just accepted a full tuition scholarship to graduate school at Wake Forest. He will finish his undergrad and Masters at age 22 and zero debt.</p>
<p>Congrats to your daughter, hoveringmom! My daughter is currently attending a fine, although not well-known, college (Hendrix College in Conway, AR) on a full ride. It was the right decision for her & for our family. Best of luck to your daughter!</p>
<p>my son is a sophomore attending Washington and Lee University in Virginia on a full ride…next year he’ll be doing a study abroad at London School of Economics. Were it not for the full ride which covers the study abroad, he might not be able to have these opportunities…good luck…</p>
<p>hoveringmom, the pressure to accept and attend one of the top tier schools can be tremendous, even when there is little to no aid. Our DS was the only one of seven in his H.S. class accepted to Duke, but did not attend. He really wanted to go there badly because all his friends went. He is happy as a clam right now and graduating with zero debt, even some money in the bank. Your DD has the opportunity to graduate and move into her adult life with no debt. That is priceless! Good luck!</p>
<p>“I am sorry but a kid with a 1410 SAT is not going to be challenged at a 4th tier school…that is ridiculous” </p>
<p>D. had higher SAT and graduated #1 in class and extremely challenged at her state school. She does not feel that she needed more academic challenge, in fact many valedictorians in her Honors program have changed their future professional goals after realizing that challenges are too much for them. Who got this notion that kids are not challenged in college? EVERYBODY including the very top are challenged if their priority is academics, not partying. In addition, state schools are treating thier academic stars really really well. D is college senior next year and has no plans to apply to top Graduate schools. She continues to be straight “A”, but has to work extremely hard for them.</p>
<p>Hendrix, Furman, and Washington and Lee (edit: and Miami U, too.) are all excellent schools. I don’t want to get bogged down in a “tier” discussion, but they are all 3 in the top 100 LAC’s in UsNews, with Furman usually around #30 and Wash and Lee in the teens. </p>
<p>IMO there are schools where a student with high academic potential or high academic standards would have to work harder to seek out academic peers and mentors… but not these 3. My gosh. We are talking about some pretty dang good colleges. </p>
<p>Make sure there is a critical mass of students of similar calibre and motivation to your student. For my D that was the single most important factor in choosing a UG scholarship over a more prestigious acceptance. Without that critical mass of students (and mentors), she wouldn’t have gone there.</p>
<p>My point is…there is an academic quality “line”. Don’t ignore it. There is a “cost” line. Don’t ignore it (unless tuition is just not a big concern to you). What you are looking for is the optimal point those lines cross for your student and your family. Reasonable people can differ on where that optimal point is. There are lots of factors to consider. We get in trouble when we start generalizing what is “best” for someone else’s situation, or worse yet, for every kid and family. We don’t know everything about their kid. We don’t know everything about them. </p>
<p>Don’t ignore either “line” and research, research, research. Knowledge is power.</p>
<p>Sometimes looking at “tiers” or “mid 50 SAT ranges” does not tell the whole story. Within one college, the students with the higher SATs are generally not equally distributed across all majors. Generally, those with the higher SATs are more concentrated within the math, science, and engineering majors. I’m not going to specify which majors might have more students with lower SAT scores, but there are majors which this does commonly happen.</p>
<p>Also, a tier ranking can be low simply because the school is not well-developed in many disciplines. It may have a strong math and science program, but may not offer many majors and/or may not have depth in many majors.</p>
<p>So, it can sometimes depend on the major as whether the child gets adequately challenged.</p>
<p>I would warn against picking a school based on major/academic department unless you are also the type to commit to a 7-year med program. Interests change.</p>
<p>Keilexandra,
My D. is in a program similar to what you have mentioned (combined bs/md). Some of them still have flexibility. She picked her schol based on acceptance to this program. They are so selective, that you know that if you are accepted there, then you will be treated as royalty. And it is very true. D. has very broad interests, which she was able to pursue still being part of program. </p>
<p>I would stress that what important the most is fit. Ranking, price is secondary within reasonable limits. If kid feels that place fits his personality and goals, he / she will do very well. And state schools really appreciate their academic superstars.</p>